Southwest submits proposal to acquire Frontier Airlines

[brokedash]

A buying of assets.....not a merger.

if u read one of the first post it seems to state WN intially buying F9 for assests and then merging after completing the labor talks and off loading the 319s. Anyrate best to all @ F9 and flying 73s for WN is a helluva lot better option than flying 190s for Bedford's sweatshop.

 

[pilotgolfer]

Unfortunately, this is a true possibility. They could fence off F9, and then just let us die on the vine. There is virtually no equity left in any of our aircraft, so anybody they sells our assets would break even at best. 113M for Denver, our slots into LGA, DCA, SNA ect, and 25% of denver market is a bargain. Again, I am obviously hoping that this is not the intent, but we shall see...

Southwest will probably appoint John Denison to be Frontier's CEO. He will pretend to be your friend for a while. Next he will cancel all of Frontier's routes that overlap with Southwest. He'll then say that Frontier can't make any money with the routes that are left so he's selling all of the remaining Airbus. Denison will then return to his Board of Director's position at Southwest.

Southwest will offer preferential interviews to those pilots that have a 737 type rating. Of the pilots they interview, they will hire 3.


I'm saying all this in jest, of course. I hope it works out for the pilots at Frontier.

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

If the Southwest pilots agree to binding arbitration, it will be a disaster for them. "Relative seniority" is all the rage with arbitrators now and is an easy cop out. Frontier pilots will get a great deal seniority wise, and a huge pay raise. Interesting that even giving DOH to the Frontier pilots would probably be better damage control than relative seniority.

Southwest pilots will be left losing seniority and every last one of Frontier's (non-compatible, non-737) planes will go BUH-BYE.

If I were a Southwest pilot I would go for the staple. Nothing to lose.

 

[johnsonrod]

I agree that you F9 guys will need to do everything possible to avoid another ATA situation. That was a DISASTER. Southwest does not always play nice - watch your backs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Fubijaakr]

Now please step aside and let this F9 pilot take your already prolonged upgrade and or good schedule.

This won't happen.

Unfortunately, this is a true possibility. They could fence off F9, and then just let us die on the vine..

This certainly COULD happen. Draw down F9 as you ramp up SWA service to DEN.

It's not going to go that way. Ask the ATA guys. They will draw down the airline over a few years offering interviews to Frontier employees AS NEEDED.

That would be the historic way SWA handles these things. Morris and ATA are prime examples.

That said, its MUCH better for F9 pilots to end up at SWA than RAH. Let's all hope SWA prevents the RAH Borg from assimilating F9.

 

[Old School 737]

Just like the ATA deal SWA wants the gates. Could care less about planes, people and routes. Sad. Could open the door for United or some other carrier to fill in on the South of the border flying when the Frontier flights no longer operate them.

 

[Flying the Line]

F9 will add to the southwest network by flying: Mexico, Costa Rica, ANC, Transcons, ect.

 

[Old School 737]

F9 will add to the southwest network by flying: Mexico, Costa Rica, ANC, Transcons, ect.

To start with you are correct. But the long term prognosis is not so good. In my opinion. I think they give the airbus to Volaris to operate the South of the border stuff.

 

[Minimaniac]

Hmmm. The end result seems good for F9 pilots, but the short term seems painful. F9 pilots do F9 flying, but SWA slowly draws that down. F9 pilots can get on (at bottom of the list via preferential hiring) at SWA, but only as quickly as expansion allows. Anyone see enough expansion in the next five years to accommodate the entire F9 list? Over time, F9 pilots will all find a home, but a lot of guys may end up in limbo for a year or two. Well, maybe not all, because SWA wants to HIRE you, not just send you to 737 class.

Of course F9 pilots would rather go to SWA than RAH, and a future with SWA is far brighter than one at RAH. BUT BUT BUT, the current "plan" from SWA is not good enough. If RAH is willing to take you on without an interview, SWA should, too. What is the point of paying your dues if the SWA hiring committee can just send you packing? Demand integration, or enjoy being an ugly chapter in SWA history that the kool-aid pushers sweep under the rug.

 

[waveflyer]

It goes w/o saying that Frontier could still go in 10 different directions-

 

[HalinTexas]

If there's no offer to integrate or staple the lists by the end of the year, it ain't gonna happen. I should have tried harder to get out while it was relatively good. Get ready for unemployment.

It sucks out here, water's cold and we're running out of beer.

 

[StopNTSing]

It does beg the question- Swa doesn't have the training program to type pilots and I don't see them ramping that up to handle F9 guys while all the other pilots spent their own money on it. I see the pool being okay and then pref hiring which to qualify you'd have to have the 737 type--

It goes w/o saying that Frontier could still go in 10 different directions-

Many of the junior Morris Air pilots came over with no 73-type. Please refrain from speaking out of your rectum. Oh wait...this is FI....never mind.

 

[StopNTSing]

If the Southwest pilots agree to binding arbitration, it will be a disaster for them. "Relative seniority" is all the rage with arbitrators now and is an easy cop out. Frontier pilots will get a great deal seniority wise, and a huge pay raise. Interesting that even giving DOH to the Frontier pilots would probably be better damage control than relative seniority.

Southwest pilots will be left losing seniority and every last one of Frontier's (non-compatible, non-737) planes will go BUH-BYE.

If I were a Southwest pilot I would go for the staple. Nothing to lose.

One more great reason to have voted down our recent TA! It had very specific language to deal with this very situation. Now we (pilots) have a LOT of leverage with the company if they want to get this deal done.

 

[HalinTexas]

Many of the junior Morris Air pilots came over with no 73-type. Please refrain from speaking out of your rectum. Oh wait...this is FI....never mind.

I believe it was less than 20 and they had a time limit on getting their type. HK also was reported to say he'd never merge again.

I was also told that 4 Morris guys were fired by SWA before they landed at Morris. One was subsequently re-fired.

Don't forget Muse Air/TransStar.

 

[waveflyer]

Many of the junior Morris Air pilots came over with no 73-type. Please refrain from speaking out of your rectum. Oh wait...this is FI....never mind.

I didn't know that- you're right! My bad- there's a lot of good pilots at F9 that have had their futures hanging over them for a while. Best of luck all.

 

[HalinTexas]

One more great reason to have voted down our recent TA! It had very specific language to deal with this very situation. Now we (pilots) have a LOT of leverage with the company if they want to get this deal done.

I'm sure you do. That's why the F9 guys are screwed!

 

[inflightboi175]

Dont forget Frontier Airlines has a codeshare agreement with Midwest Airlines now. i wonder how this will effect the agreement with midwest/republic?

 

[BoilerUP]

How does this possible acquisition/merger relate to the proposed Scope section of the current contract & failed TA?

 

[Raoul Duke]

Given the fact that Republic controls the unsecured creditors committee it seems like they are in the drivers seat on this deal.

 

[slaquer5]

I believe it was less than 20 and they had a time limit on getting their type. HK also was reported to say he'd never merge again.

I was also told that 4 Morris guys were fired by SWA before they landed at Morris. One was subsequently re-fired.

Don't forget Muse Air/TransStar.

The time limit was when they upgraded SWA gave it to them. Also it was 3 that where formally fired. Our VP of flt ops called each one to say no hard feelings coming back.

ps no one was re fired

 

[Porch]

I don't think any F9 pilots wants to bump a WN pilot and take their earned seniority. There's 5000+ WN pilots and 600+ F9 pilots, really within the big picture how much is someone going to lose if there is some type of integration to save a fellow pilot from ending up in the streets... Nothing monumental. If I were on the flip side, I'd be happy to give a little to help a fellow pilot out. I understand the selfishness of pilots, and the mememe philosophy. I personally just want a damn job, preferably WN vs. the later. I've been on the street for a while and its UGLY as heII out there, its a flippin nightmare. Honestly, putting applications in at some BS retail crap... they look at your application and literally laugh... Hmmm, your an airline pilot with over 10K of flight time and your applying here? How long do you plan on being here? Where do you see yourself in 5 years... OMG, are you kidding me; for a $10/hr job! If the shoe was on the other foot, we'd all understand where the F9 guys are coming from. No one is asking for the world, their being bought out and like most professionals, would like to carry over into the other company... not left to rot on the street. The outcome from that would be devastating in this environment: Alcoholism, drugs, phycological issues, family problems. I hope WN and FAPA can come to some conclusion on how to preserve jobs with the local Denver employees. I feel Denver and Colorado will keep a close eye on these issues of unemployment and how WN handles it. It is saving the local airline, but at what cost to the resources that matter the most: human beings and their survival.

 

[sshrae]

I'm sure you do. That's why the F9 guys are screwed!

Just a ray of sunshine. You obviously got hosed on the ATA deal. I would probably be pissed too, however, I don't think you should call doom and gloom just yet for the f9 posse. Most of the guys/gals I have talked to at both companies are optimistic a mutually beneficial agreement can be reached.

 

[Red Baron]

I don't think any F9 pilots wants to bump a WN pilot and take their earned seniority. There's 5000+ WN pilots and 600+ F9 pilots, really within the big picture how much is someone going to lose if there is some type of integration to save a fellow pilot from ending up in the streets... Nothing monumental. If I were on the flip side, I'd be happy to give a little to help a fellow pilot out. I understand the selfishness of pilots, and the mememe philosophy. I personally just want a damn job, preferably WN vs. the later. I've been on the street for a while and its UGLY as heII out there, its a flippin nightmare. Honestly, putting applications in at some BS retail crap... they look at your application and literally laugh... Hmmm, your an airline pilot with over 10K of flight time and your applying here? How long do you plan on being here? Where do you see yourself in 5 years... OMG, are you kidding me; for a $10/hr job! If the shoe was on the other foot, we'd all understand where the F9 guys are coming from. No one is asking for the world, their being bought out and like most professionals, would like to carry over into the other company... not left to rot on the street. The outcome from that would be devastating in this environment: Alcoholism, drugs, phycological issues, family problems. I hope WN and FAPA can come to some conclusion on how to preserve jobs with the local Denver employees. I feel Denver and Colorado will keep a close eye on these issues of unemployment and how WN handles it. It is saving the local airline, but at what cost to the resources that matter the most: human beings and their survival.

Nice post. It puts it all in perspective. All of this will work itself out. Best wishes.

 

[inflightboi175]

everyone is making this sound like a done deal. i would not be surprised if jetblue or virgin america put a bid in

 

[vtwo]

Look out boys

Or Southwest can take over running F9 , keep it separate while installing one of their former executives to run the place for while. Then they get all info they need from the inside , dismantle F9 while handing over money making routes to WN, and blocking potential competition,all the while they look like the white knight. Then in the end F9 fails and closes the doors .
All employees are left standing in the morning with out jobs .


Think it won't/can't happen? well they did that once already.

 

[HalinTexas]

Just a ray of sunshine. You obviously got hosed on the ATA deal. I would probably be pissed too, however, I don't think you should call doom and gloom just yet for the f9 posse. Most of the guys/gals I have talked to at both companies are optimistic a mutually beneficial agreement can be reached.

I was a fool. I believed.....

ATA had a "lot of good people" too. Global operations. ETOPS on everything. MNPS for NAT ops. on the B737 approved less than two months prior. An eminent international codeshare with ATA. John Dennison told us to hang on. Some AF general on the World BOD told our union directly that HK was directly involved and influential in MP's purchase of WAH. All BS.

I really wasn't pissed at SWA. Their loss. They'd be going to Europe as well as the rest of the Americas by now. Which means they'd probably have the contract they wanted now, too.

I think one of the biggest reasons it never happened, as we were told by SWAPA leadership, was ALPA. SWAPA and GK wanted nothing to do with ALPA. FAPA? Please. ATA/ALPA blew, but it was 1100 strong in 2004 when this all came down. FAPA can't afford to fight it. Whatever it is.

I'm not bitter anymore, just tired of watching the fools in this industry. Everywhere, here, on all sides. I'm a student of history. I've moved on. Probably won't ever fly commercially again, not to say that I'm not looking.

Good luck. Don't be a sucker.

 

[T3700]

The law says that if one airline buys more than 50% of the assets of another, there will be a seniority integration. How do you think re-interviewing to make sure you meet Southwest's vaunted culture fits in here? I think Southwest management made the decision that Frontier pilots would fit in when they made the offer to buy.

 

[sshrae]

Good luck. Don't be a sucker.[/QUOTE]

I understand your pessimism. I think you will not see FAPA fighting SWAPA as much as ALPA did. FAPA and F9 management had a very strong relationship, not saying your union didn't, but they are just going to be looking to keep their jobs somehow more than anything. They don't have much to bargain with if this goes through. Hopefully it works out, I am cautiously optimistic for F9.

 

[filejw]

The law says that if one airline buys more than 50% of the assets of another, there will be a seniority integration. How do you think re-interviewing to make sure you meet Southwest's vaunted culture fits in here? I think Southwest management made the decision that Frontier pilots would fit in when they made the offer to buy.

All true , I think this would be the first time this law would be used...

 

[HalinTexas]

Not if they keep the companies separate.

The WARN act was supposed to protect us, too. Yeah, right.