Southwest Nose Gear Collapse LGA

[Muppets]

I would have thought that during the training for a 737 type the instructor would have mentioned the mains touch first.

 

[redflyer65]

Tanker, I think you're over simplifying this with that comment. One similarity between Asiana and this WN accident is that they both warranted a go-around and they both continued to the crash. I think that all air carriers (at least in this country) flight ops policy is that "go-arounds are free". If you are on an approach that warrants a miss, and you continue and there's an accident I would not call it a "this could happen to any of us" thing.

Wow. Can you email me ahead of time when I should go around? You know, before you know any details?

Thanks.

 

[tankerhead]

Tanker, I think you're over simplifying this with that comment. One similarity between Asiana and this WN accident is that they both warranted a go-around and they both continued to the crash. I think that all air carriers (at least in this country) flight ops policy is that "go-arounds are free". If you are on an approach that warrants a miss, and you continue and there's an accident I would not call it a "this could happen to any of us" thing.

Are you so perfect that you've never continued an approach or landing that "warrants a miss"? Have you never thanked your lucky stars after such an occurrence? Do you always make the perfect snap-second decision at 150 knots 2 seconds prior to touchdown?

I wish I was sh!t-hot like you, man.

 

[The Gimp]

News reporting that they landed nose first.

So what would the PNF be doing as the PF landed nose first?

Fatigue?

 

[Sy-bill]

If you don't think this could happen to you, I would never want to be a passenger on your airplane.

Humility is the most important trait of any pilot. The lack of humility can hurt other people when it comes to aviation. Thinking otherwise is only fooling yourself.

 

[SKC]

Prior to the previous string of off runway excursions i had heard go-arounds were discouraged. I had really hoped the safety culture at SW had changed. Thank goodness there were only minor injuries.

Wow.

Absolutely told to never go around under any circumstance, and if you have fuel to taxi to the gate, you've loaded too much in the first place. Weight and balance forms are just suggestions and all maintenance items are taken care of when and if there's time after nap time.

 

[Hpilot]

GMAFB.

Where do you people get this nonsense?

Go arounds were NEVER discouraged, officially, or unofficially at SW.

SW still has one of the best safety records of any airline, and is far better than most.

I mentioned to one of your co-workers/ friend that in training at AWA we were going over go around procedures because the company after reviewing landing data felt go-arounds weren't being performed when they should have been. He laughed and said, "you'll never see that at Southwest, in fact go-arounds are discouraged." How many 737's have you guys taken off roading compared to everyone else? You can either stick your head in the sand and break out the SW pomp pomps or admit you've got a safety culture problem. Ignoring it won't make it go away, it's just gonna get people killed.

 

[SKC]

You can either stick your head in the sand and break out the SW pomp pomps or admit you've got a safety culture problem. Ignoring it won't make it go away, it's just gonna get people killed.

Ignorant statement #2. Third time is a charm.

Besides, I just put my "pomp pomps" away.

 

[Hpilot]

Wow.

Absolutely told to never go around under any circumstance, and if you have fuel to taxi to the gate, you've loaded too much in the first place. Weight and balance forms are just suggestions and all maintenance items are taken care of when and if there's time after nap time.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying i think there could be a culture there that incourages fuel savings and on time over safety. I hope i'm wrong.

 

[Hpilot]

Ignorant statement #2. Third time is a charm.

Besides, I just put my "pomp pomps" away.

How's that sand taste? Or maybe in the sand isn't where your head is. Yuck

 

[trip]

So what would the PNF be doing as the PF landed nose first?

Clenching the seat cushion and thinking this is going to be ugly?

 

[Hpilot]

Well, i better sign off. Since some Southwest pilot is sure to post it..... no i never was turned down by Southwest, i don't even remember completing an app. My dream airlines were American and Alaska. See, dreams do come true

 

[The Gimp]

If you don't think this could happen to you, I would never want to be a passenger on your airplane.

Humility is the most important trait of any pilot. The lack of humility can hurt other people when it comes to aviation. Thinking otherwise is only fooling yourself.

100% agree.

There has been similar accidents, and the common trait between them is the simple fact that a go around was not initiated. Some crews were recorded after such accidents saying that, "if someone would have said go around" a little nudge perhaps, then the next call would have been "Go around thrust". Not saying this is the case in this accident BTW.

It takes both guys up front to tango.

 

[xanderman]

Guys talk is cheap. It's fact that SWA has wrecked a lot of jets in the last ten years. Somebody better take a closer look.

 

[Dash Power]

Guys talk is cheap. It's fact that SWA has wrecked a lot of jets in the last ten years. Somebody better take a closer look.

Name all the "Jets" we have wrecked the past 10 years.

Glass houses.

This sucks for any airline.

 

[XR650R]

When I first got to SW in the mid-nineties, some of the statements above were basically correct. I remember thinking to myself "are these guys for real?". That was then and this is now. Now, it's polar opposite. Seriously. I can't speak for what happened in LGA but "SLOW THE F DOWN" has been a mantra for some time now. Go-arounds are mandatory if you do not meet stabilized approach criteria by 1000' AGL. No wiggle room there. I'm still shaking my head trying to figure out how this could have happened.

 

[scoreboardII]

I mentioned to one of your co-workers/ friend that in training at AWA we were going over go around procedures because the company after reviewing landing data felt go-arounds weren't being performed when they should have been. He laughed and said, "you'll never see that at Southwest, in fact go-arounds are discouraged." How many 737's have you guys taken off roading compared to everyone else? You can either stick your head in the sand and break out the SW pomp pomps or admit you've got a safety culture problem. Ignoring it won't make it go away, it's just gonna get people killed.

The only pompous ass here is your statement. SWA gets paid extra to go around, no harm no foul, your source is jacked or as noted above or ten years behind the timeline of what happens now.

How many times have you gone around? Please don't say plenty.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Guys talk is cheap. It's fact that SWA has wrecked a lot of jets in the last ten years. Somebody better take a closer look.

Really, dumbass?

In the last ten years, Southwest has wrecked exactly ZERO jets. That's zero. In fact, in over 42 years of operation, only ONE jet has ever been written off (BUR overrun in 2000, an accident involving an older -300, with zero fatalities, and zero serious injuries), because it wasn't cost-effective to repair.

Southwest has NEVER killed a passenger, and has only had one fatality attributed to our operation (6-year old Joshua Woods in the 2005 MDW accident, who choked to death after the overrun plane hit his parent's car and he was stuck inside). Aside from the BUR plane, this was the most serious damage ever done to a Southwest airplane, and the airplane was repaired and returned to service, and is still flying today.

What airline do YOU work for, Xanderman? Would you like to compare safety records? Or would you just prefer to keep talking out of your ass? You ARE right about one thing, however--talk IS cheap. And somebody SHOULD take a closer look. At how ignorant and stupid your remarks are.

Bubba

 

[scoreboardII]

US Airways has never ever crashed.....

 

[SWA Bubba]

I mentioned to one of your co-workers/ friend that in training at AWA we were going over go around procedures because the company after reviewing landing data felt go-arounds weren't being performed when they should have been. He laughed and said, "you'll never see that at Southwest, in fact go-arounds are discouraged." How many 737's have you guys taken off roading compared to everyone else? You can either stick your head in the sand and break out the SW pomp pomps or admit you've got a safety culture problem. Ignoring it won't make it go away, it's just gonna get people killed.

How many planes have we "taken off-roading compared to everyone else"? Well, fewer than Delta (and its Delta Connections) in the last year alone. The last five or so such incidents have been them. We don't make such a big deal about it, because minor sh1t like that happens to everyone. However when it happens to us, all the forum idiots like you go on for 20 pages on FI about our "safety culture" and "dangerous" taxiing. Do you know how many incidents of any kind at Southwest, in our history, that have been attributed to taxi speeds? Zero. Your Southwest "evidence" of safety culture is just anecdotal BS ("I've got a friend at Southwest who says..." Yeah, sure you do.)

Tell us about YOUR airline, HPilot. Seriously. I'd be happy to compare safety records. How many passengers we each fly, and how many passenger fatalities we're responsible for. Our head is not in the sand, and we don't "ignore" safety issues. And the way we do business isn't "gonna get people killed," no matter how much you blabber about it anonymously, and no matter how much you'd obviously like to see that happen just so you can say, "I told you so."

Bubba

 

[DCAA320]

How many planes have we "taken off-roading compared to everyone else"? Well, fewer than Delta (and its Delta Connections) in the last year alone. The last five or so such incidents have been them. We don't make such a big deal about it, because minor sh1t like that happens to everyone. However when it happens to us, all the forum idiots like you go on for 20 pages on FI about our "safety culture" and "dangerous" taxiing. Do you know how many incidents of any kind at Southwest, in our history, that have been attributed to taxi speeds? Zero. Your Southwest "evidence" of safety culture is just anecdotal BS ("I've got a friend at Southwest who says..." Yeah, sure you do.)

Tell us about YOUR airline, HPilot. Seriously. I'd be happy to compare safety records. How many passengers we each fly, and how many passenger fatalities we're responsible for. Our head is not in the sand, and we don't "ignore" safety issues. And the way we do business isn't "gonna get people killed," no matter how much you blabber about it anonymously, and no matter how much you'd obviously like to see that happen just so you can say, "I told you so."

Bubba

You arrogant SOB, you ran into a gas station in Cali and killed an innocent bystander in MY city, Chicago. You bitches have just been lucky.

 

[StopNTSing]

You arrogant SOB, you ran into a gas station in Cali and killed an innocent bystander in MY city, Chicago. You bitches have just been lucky.

Drinking + Posting = FUgly....every time it's tried

 

[redflyer65]

You arrogant SOB, you ran into a gas station in Cali and killed an innocent bystander in MY city, Chicago. You bitches have just been lucky.

Nice.

I'm sure it's all been luck.

 

[glasspilot1]

Wow. Can you email me ahead of time when I should go around? You know, before you know any details?

Thanks.

Two separate questions. A missed approach is mandatory when the approach becomes unstable below 1000 AGL.

We don't know any details? I guess you haven't read this thread. Go to post #66.

 

[THEPRFCT10]

I suspect we've all been guilty at some point of our professional aviation careers where we couldn't eat our humble pie, so we 'salvaged' the approach, with a comment from the other guy sitting next to you saying 'nicely done'. It is a human trait issue. Type A personality that most of us are. If this doesn't make you reflect...

 

[mesaba13]

USAIR 427 (Ohare to Pittsburgh)

 

[BillJBrake]

So they say it could happen to anyone, but why so many for Southwest?

In recent years:

1455 @ BUR
1248 @ MDW
1919 @ MDW
345 @ LGA


then not to mention sliding off the Taxiway twice last year:

1905 @ DEN
4695 @ ISP


Things that make you go hrmmm...

 

[Tweaker]

Things are gettin' real ugly in mhea. Simmah dahn nah.

It appears that this LGA crew really dorked the landing, but the airline-wide broad brush painting of systemic piloting shortcomings is really petty and just looks like sour grapes over personal grudges.

SWA, being the largest domestic airline, obviously has the highest opportunity for mishaps. Given that, their safety record is damned fine.

 

[Tripower455]

I mentioned to one of your co-workers/ friend that in training at AWA we were going over go around procedures because the company after reviewing landing data felt go-arounds weren't being performed when they should have been. He laughed and said, "you'll never see that at Southwest, in fact go-arounds are discouraged."

He's FOS. I've been here 18 years, and have NEVER been discouraged from doing a go around when it was necessary. If anything, we've gone the other direction and have tied our hands into doing go arounds when they aren't necessary.

How many 737's have you guys taken off roading compared to everyone else?

No clue how many OAL 737s have left the pavement, but it does happen.

You can either stick your head in the sand and break out the SW pomp pomps or admit you've got a safety culture problem. Ignoring it won't make it go away, it's just gonna get people killed.

If we had a safety culture problem, I would admit it. We don't. Stuff happens for a variety of reasons, and SW still has one of the best safety records in the industry.

 

[LJ45]

You arrogant SOB, you ran into a gas station in Cali and killed an innocent bystander in MY city, Chicago. You bitches have just been lucky.

you must be a joy to fly with