Southwest Airlines pilot union activates its strike preparedness committee

[humveedriver]

The first deal would have been the best, if your Merger Committee knew what they were doing.

It was one good bite at the SLI apple. Unfortunately they choked on the worm (to your detriment).

Negotiating a new contract is completely different. And as an old dog, you know that.

Look forward to pulling gear for you Freight.

? First deal had worse seniority for AT and more stapled. Second deal was better from strict seniority integration. Which is good since GK sold all the 717s! Looking back and now seeing what he did with the evolve interior (143seats) and the -800 it makes sense. How he did it (lies and coercion) is another story.

 

[Tripower455]

Not that I feel like I deserve retro, but if there's a way to screw over the stepchildren, SWAPA and Gary will find out how.

Yup, and we're all step children in that case!

 

[maru657]

Wow, a strike at Southwest? I suspect there's a lot of pilots out there that would cross that picket line in a heartbeat.

 

[freightdogfred]

A strike at Southwest? The word strike is a dirty word. Put it like this-

https://images.search.yahoo.com/ima...p&sigt=11aa3urrp&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-002

 

[Tripower455]

Wow, a strike at Southwest? I suspect there's a lot of pilots out there that would cross that picket line in a heartbeat.

Yeah, we just inherited a bunch of them with a proven track record......

 

[redflyer65]

Yeah, we just inherited a bunch of them with a proven track record......

Ouch.



















But true.

 

[humveedriver]

Yeah, we just inherited a bunch of them with a proven track record......

If that makes you feel better. Between the retired military guys and the guys who work every angle to get around the cap. I don't think a handful of former Eastern scabs is going to be the issue for SWAPA and a strike. This group is a long way from the kind of unity to seriously entertain a strike. The union is fighting for improvements and keeping the important stuff in the contract. It's not like the company has slashed wages in half or completely ignored scope and entered an agreement with Norweigen Air. But when we go on strike for single digit percentage improvements in retirement and pay, it will be the former eastern guys with less than 5 years to go that take us all down.

 

[Tripower455]

If that makes you feel better.

What would've made me feel better would've been not taking them at all, or at least stapling them to the bottom of the list.

Between the retired military guys and the guys who work every angle to get around the cap. I don't think a handful of former Eastern scabs is going to be the issue for SWAPA and a strike. This group is a long way from the kind of unity to seriously entertain a strike. The union is fighting for improvements and keeping the important stuff in the contract. It's not like the company has slashed wages in half or completely ignored scope and entered an agreement with Norweigen Air.

I completely agree. I've flown with a ton of potential scabs here over the years. From folks who think we should just "forgive and forget" to guys who have flat out said that they would cross a picket line. We even had a famous guy (now gone) on our forum state that he'd bring the donuts as he crossed. Heck, our UNION hired a UAL '85 scab as a consultant (!) a while back, and their defense of it, when they were called out on it, was unbelievable. They ended up firing him, or at least kept his work under wraps.

But when we go on strike for single digit percentage improvements in retirement and pay, it will be the former eastern guys with less than 5 years to go that take us all down.

Regardless of how many years they have left, they've already caused enough damage to the profession, and the potential scabs don't need any more encouragement.

FWIW, we still have 2 or 3 (depending on who you ask), bona fide, non AT scabs working for us.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Wow, a strike at Southwest? I suspect there's a lot of pilots out there that would cross that picket line in a heartbeat.

Well, everyone know that YOU would, given the chance. You're the only one I've seen on this board bragging that he'd cross a picket line, so I guess that's par for the course. I'm only sorry that you never got the chance to do so in your career--since I know that "scab" is what you always aspired to be.

Bubba

 

[Ty Webb]

Yeah, we just inherited a bunch of them with a proven track record......

You got a handful of those, but, more to the point, about 1750 non-scabs, most of whom have already proven themselves when it comes to delivering a credible strike vote, informational picketing at airports, shareholder meetings, etc.

 

[jball2]

+1 Ty

 

[shootr]

Retro should matter to EVERY one of us. The retro check each of us gets means little compared to the precedent it will set if we accept a contract WITHOUT retro.

Think bigger picture, here.

 

[Tripower455]

You got a handful of those, but, more to the point, about 1750 non-scabs, most of whom have already proven themselves when it comes to delivering a credible strike vote, informational picketing at airports, shareholder meetings, etc.

Good point!

 

[HowardBorden]

You got a handful of those, but, more to the point, about 1750 non-scabs, most of whom have already proven themselves when it comes to delivering a credible strike vote, informational picketing at airports, shareholder meetings, etc.

There are many more than 1750 on the combined list that have done all of the above, myself included.

 

[freightdogfred]

Think bigger picture, here.

That ship sailed with Plan B

 

[SWA Bubba]

That ship sailed with Plan B

That's a great idea you have--let bitterness decide your vote, to vote in something that hurts all Southwet pilots, including yourself. That'll sure teach somebody a lesson! Hey, since you're such a sterling example of a "big picture" guy, maybe you can give us some of your savvy advice on what to invest our 401-K plans in while you're at it. :blush:

Bubba

 

[freightdogfred]

That's a great idea you have--let bitterness decide your vote, to vote in something that hurts all Southwet pilots, including yourself. That'll sure teach somebody a lesson! Hey, since you're such a sterling example of a "big picture" guy, maybe you can give us some of your savvy advice on what to invest our 401-K plans in while you're at it. :blush:

Bubba

I sense bitterness in your post

 

[PCL_128]

I sense bitterness in the posts of just about everyone. Good job SWAPA and Gary!

 

[SWA Bubba]

I sense bitterness in your post

Not at all. Not me.

You probably sense bitterness everywhere you look, because there's so much in you, that you taste it no matter what else you look at. Let it go--you'll feel better.

:beer:

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

I sense bitterness in the posts of just about everyone. Good job SWAPA and Gary!

SWAPA and Gary?

I'm not sure that's who everyone blamed the most for their bitterness. It was probably the people that they actually sued over the whole debacle that they thought deserved the most blame. Uh,.... and that would be ALPA and you, wouldn't it, PCL?

Bubba

 

[redflyer65]

What was it? Six months ago that PCL berated people for still posting about the SLI, but yet......


Here he is doing that exact thing. Why is that?

 

[PCL_128]

SWAPA and Gary?



I'm not sure that's who everyone blamed the most for their bitterness. It was probably the people that they actually sued over the whole debacle that they thought deserved the most blame. Uh,.... and that would be ALPA and you, wouldn't it, PCL?



Bubba

I was never sued. ALPA was, but only 7% of the pilot group joined that suit. The suit was thrown out on summary judgment about a month ago, and the judge determined that it was so frivolous that he ordered the plaintiffs to reimburse ALPA for its legal fees.

I actually don't blame Gary or SWAPA for the SLI result. As usual, redflyer has not the mental capacity to keep up with a rather uncomplicated conversation. We were discussing the bitterness and division that is evident in this thread, not the SLI. And no one is more to blame for that than Gary and SWAPA.

 

[HowardBorden]

We were discussing the bitterness and division that is evident in this thread, not the SLI. And no one is more to blame for that than Gary and SWAPA.

I'm always curious when I hear the blame for the deal that was created and negotiated by SWA management should be placed squarely on the shoulders of SWAPA.

All four parties negotiated a process agreement that invited SWA management to the table. Exactly what legal action could have SWAPA or ALPA for that matter, taken to preclude SWA from making the offers that they subsequently made? Please be specific. Of course those offers could have been turned down, but that didn't happen. What exactly could anyone have done to prevent the offers other than specifically excluding them from being made via the process agreement?

 

[PCL_128]

I'm always curious when I hear the blame for the deal that was created and negotiated by SWA management should be placed squarely on the shoulders of SWAPA.

All four parties negotiated a process agreement that invited SWA management to the table. Exactly what legal action could have SWAPA or ALPA for that matter, taken to preclude SWA from making the offers that they subsequently made? Please be specific. Of course those offers could have been turned down, but that didn't happen. What exactly could anyone have done to prevent the offers other than specifically excluding them from being made via the process agreement?

This is a gross misrepresentation about what actually took place. SWAPA took unreasonable positions and made it clear to management that there would be hell to pay if they didn't get their way. Gary yielded to the bigger group and threatened the smaller group with the loss of their livelihoods if they didn't capitulate. SWAPA and Gary both share the blame for the feelings of bitterness that will last for many years. And yes, no matter what someone tells you to your face while he's trapped in a cockpit with you for days on end, that bitterness is there.

 

[HowardBorden]

This is a gross misrepresentation about what actually took place. SWAPA took unreasonable positions and made it clear to management that there would be hell to pay if they didn't get their way. Gary yielded to the bigger group and threatened the smaller group with the loss of their livelihoods if they didn't capitulate. SWAPA and Gary both share the blame for the feelings of bitterness that will last for many years. And yes, no matter what someone tells you to your face while he's trapped in a cockpit with you for days on end, that bitterness is there.

I asked you what anyone could have done to prevent SWA from making the offers that THEY made. Stop the rhetoric and hyperbole and answer the question. Did anyone have the ability to stop SWA from making the offers they made and if not, why did the process agreement not preclude them from taking the control of the situation and dictating the terms that they did? Why didn't the brilliant legal scholars at the disposal of AT ALPA not see this coming? I know I was absolutely floored when I first heard an offer was proffered by SWA management and admit I absolutely never saw that coming, however I am not a lawyer practicing in the field of labor relations.

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

PCL
Who bought who ????, you were lucky you got a second offer to work at SWA and not pound the pavements, get over it and enjoy your new career at Walmart

 

[PCL_128]

I asked you what anyone could have done to prevent SWA from making the offers that THEY made.

It's a nonsensical question. Anyone can always make an offer. The real question is why management felt compelled to do so. And the answer is that they were worried about how SWAPA would react if a fair process was actually followed.

Why didn't the brilliant legal scholars at the disposal of AT ALPA not see this coming?

Our Merger Committee didn't have attorneys in the room when they were bargaining either the Process Agreement or the SLI. Yes, the MC was incompetent. No argument there.

 

[HowardBorden]

It's a nonsensical question. Anyone can always make an offer. The real question is why management felt compelled to do so. And the answer is that they were worried about how SWAPA would react if a fair process was actually followed.

Our Merger Committee didn't have attorneys in the room when they were bargaining either the Process Agreement or the SLI. Yes, the MC was incompetent. No argument there.

It would have been very easy to put a clause in the PA which stated all bargaining for the SLI would be done exclusively by ALPA and SWAPA or an arbitrator.

I don't believe for a second that attorneys did not scrutinize the final drafts of the PA or the SLI.

Why did AT ALPA select a committee of incompetents (your words) to bargain what I can only assume was the most impactful agreement of most members careers?

 

[PCL_128]

It would have been very easy to put a clause in the PA which stated all bargaining for the SLI would be done exclusively by ALPA and SWAPA or an arbitrator.

Actually, it's not quite so simple. Because Allegheny-Mohawk includes management involvement, if a PA wasn't agreed upon by the parties that specifically excluded them, then it defaults to management being involved.

I don't believe for a second that attorneys did not scrutinize the final drafts of the PA or the SLI.

You would be shocked how things went on this side. Attorneys were ignored or even not consulted at all at times.

Why did AT ALPA select a committee of incompetents (your words) to bargain what I can only assume was the most impactful agreement of most members careers?

Politics. It's an ugly business.

 

[Tripower455]

That's a great idea you have--let bitterness decide your vote, to vote in something that hurts all Southwest pilots, including yourself. That'll sure teach somebody a lesson!

The majority of our list has voted to hurt us for at least the last decade. Sounds like he'll fit in perfectly around here!