Southwest Airlines pilot union activates its strike preparedness committee

[Uncle Bunkle]

SL 10 was a godsend for me.

 

[Kharma Police]

Actually, if anyone is "owed" a favor, it's the SW pilots. We gave GK EXACTLY what he wanted via a concessionary contract and 18 friggin side letters, many DURING, section 6. The only folks who have anything to show for all that philanthropy are the FOs that got to upgrade via SL 10.

That is a good point although water under the bridge, nobody put a gun to your head for any of those whopping 18+ side letters. Unlike us, you had a tremendous amount of leverage which was never used. The -800 being the same pay rate is an example that made me scratch my head. Also, how do you define the highest paid narrow body rates in the industry at the time as "concessionary"?

 

[Tripower455]

That is a good point although water under the bridge, nobody put a gun to your head for any of those whopping 18+ side letters. Unlike us, you had a tremendous amount of leverage which was never used.

Apparently, SWApA used the LUV gun on the pilot group......

It was clear, even at the time (although the YES! voters will claim otherwise) on every one of them, that we were (at the very least), giving up leverage in section 6.

We still voted YES! on every stinking one of them, with nothing, whatsoever, to show for it.

The -800 being the same pay rate is an example that made me scratch my head.

Yup.... International for "free" was another one. More work, same (or less) pay.

Also, how do you define the highest paid narrow body rates in the industry at the time as "concessionary"?

Between the 800, QOL and productivity hits built into TA2, International and the general slowing down of ground ops, we're working more and longer days for the same or in many cases, less pay.

 

[27 driver]

IMHO this is a joke. 10$ says we get maybe 60% yes vote when and if a vote happens. Time will tell.

 

[canyonblue]

How soon SWAPA forgets that they owe Gary a favor for the huge seniority jump and "captured captain seats". Don't be so ungrateful and don't bother asking us Tranny's to be the heavies, you carry your own water.

Captured Captain seats, now that's fricken funny right there. :laugh: Did I miss something or did a crapload of 717's come over for Southwest pilots to fly as Captain? And that HUGE seniority jump, stop looking so stupid. It's becoming painfully obvious how 80% of you got schooled.

 

[Tripower455]

IMHO this is a joke. 10$ says we get maybe 60% yes vote when and if a vote happens. Time will tell.

I agree. This group has become far more radical in the last few years, so instead of nearly 90% of "us" voting YES! on turds, it will only be 60%!

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

Did you notice PCL or the General did not chime in yet, they must be asleep

 

[Kharma Police]

Captured Captain seats, now that's fricken funny right there. :laugh: Did I miss something or did a crapload of 717's come over for Southwest pilots to fly as Captain? And that HUGE seniority jump, stop looking so stupid. It's becoming painfully obvious how 80% of you got schooled.

"Captured Captain Seats" was a silly SWAPA term. You got 3 years of Tranny's kicked then locked out of the left seat, it should be obvious to you that now even us dimwitted 717 clowns can hold them. Time flies when you're having fun......

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Hot tub Time Machine

No Lance Captains=a no vote for me!!!

 

[PCL_128]

Did you notice PCL or the General did not chime in yet, they must be asleep

I say good for SWAPA. It's what I was advocating before I left.

Didn't realize I needed to "chime in" on every thread regarding an airline I no longer work for, but I'll keep in mind how much you long to hear my opinion.

 

[freightdogfred]

Yeah, you guys fit right in around here.

Turn down an unacceptable offer, and then vote for an even less acceptable one!

Whether or not you believe it, it was done under duress. GK's implied threat of "plan B" was too much for most of the group accept as they live paycheck to paycheck. I personally felt we would have prevailed in a court of law under the MB statute and was willing to test it, as I don't live check to check. I don't blame those who did, esp. those with a family.

But it's history. You know the reason why the second offer was taken. Why do you continue to bring it up?. How many times has it been said here on FI the first offer is best?

 

[Tripower455]

Whether or not you believe it, it was done under duress. GK's implied threat of "plan B" was too much for most of the group accept as they live paycheck to paycheck. I personally felt we would have prevailed in a court of law under the MB statute and was willing to test it, as I don't live check to check. I don't blame those who did, esp. those with a family.

I agree with all of this. Not sure what you've taken offense to......

But it's history. You know the reason why the second offer was taken. Why do you continue to bring it up?. How many times has it been said here on FI the first offer is best?

Not sure how many times it was said, and frankly don't care. GK AND SWApA play the "fear" game anytime the pilot group shows the slightest sign of non compliance with what GK wants.


I made a statement regarding turning down the first offer because it wasn't good enough, and then voting for a second, worse offer.

We did exactly the same thing with TA1 and TA2, hence, your fitting right in.

 

[humveedriver]

Not sure what's so hard about all this? I'm going to vote yes and then tell everybody I voted no while regurgitating the SWAPA talking points ad nauseam.

 

[Tripower455]

Not sure what's so hard about all this? I'm going to vote yes and then tell everybody I voted no while regurgitating the SWAPA talking points ad nauseam.

Perfect! You'll fit right in with 84% of OSW pilots!

 

[freightdogfred]

Not sure how many times it was said, and frankly don't care. GK AND SWApA play the "fear" game anytime the pilot group shows the slightest sign of non compliance with what GK wants.

I guess this is where I got confused. The fear game GK played with the RAT pilots was the fear of being put on the street, loss of your house, etc. The fear game he played with the RSW pilots was...? not flying the 800? not going international? taking away your birthday? What fears did he instill in your group to ramrod the TA2?

 

[redflyer65]

It was 60% greasing of the skids (upgrades for those top FO's), and fear of arbitration from those negotiating the deal (the additional 40%).

Did I mention that 80% of those negotiating upgraded with TA2?

There was no quid pro quo like Kharma mentions. It was given right up front from Mr Kelly.

 

[Tripower455]

I guess this is where I got confused. The fear game GK played with the RAT pilots was the fear of being put on the street, loss of your house, etc. The fear game he played with the RSW pilots was...? not flying the 800? not going international? taking away your birthday?

OK, so your fears were worse than ours. Doesn't change the fact that GK AND SWApA use fear to push GK's agenda.

What fears did he instill in your group to ramrod the TA2?

IIRC, it was SWApA flying the "we lost $4m from TA1 to TA2, the next one will be worse, so vote YES!" flag.

 

[SIG600]

Not sure what's so hard about all this? I'm going to vote yes and then tell everybody I voted no while regurgitating the SWAPA talking points ad nauseam.

This guy gets it!

 

[freightdogfred]

OK, so your fears were worse than ours. Doesn't change the fact that GK AND SWApA use fear to push GK's agenda.





IIRC, it was SWApA flying the "we lost $4m from TA1 to TA2, the next one will be worse, so vote YES!" flag.

So do you see a bit of difference here? One group, votes to ensure their jobs.
The other group votes to ensure no neutral arbitrator decides the outcome, something that was previously agreed upon by the very same negotiators.

 

[Tripower455]

So do you see a bit of difference here? One group, votes to ensure their jobs.
The other group votes to ensure no neutral arbitrator decides the outcome, something that was previously agreed upon by the very same negotiators.

Same difference. GK wanted something. He used "fear" to get it, with SWApA's full cooperation. SL10 was especially "frightening" for the SW guys, because had it gone to arbitration, many of the guys doing the fear mongering, errr, "negotiating" , would most likely have not gotten an upgrade out of the deal.

Look back at every "negotiation" between SWApA and the Co., going back well into the Herb era and you'll see it.

"Herb's bribe" is a great example. Instead of opening up our concessionary, 10 year(!) '94 contract at the 5 year point, we voted, a year early no less, to go the full 10 years. Even after "Herb's Bribe", and before the other majors negotiated record breaking pay rates, we were still amongst the lowest paid major pilots in the industry. The reason it was sold to "us" was the fear that somehow, Herb would rescind the stock options that we took in lieu of pay. These options were so unevenly distributed, that even Charles Ponzi would've felt guilty about it.

Most of the group would've fared far better with a reasonable pay raise, but the guys sitting on a potential million plus in options, many of whom, (surprise!), were also the ones doing the "negotiating", didn't want to upset that apple cart.

I could go on......

84% of "us" were manipulated into voting for what GK wanted for the SLI.

Forgive me if I am a bit skeptical when GK "threatens" us.