Southern Hiring

[gringo]

How are your rest areas are on the plane? Also do they do a good job of catering your plane? Enough food and drinks for the long flights and large crews you have?

The rest areas are typical; 2 or 3 bunks. One airplane has no bunks, only air mattresses. The catering runs the gamut from barely functional (Ethiopia) to outstanding (any military run) with most of them falling somewhere in between. You'll never go hungry on one of our flights.

One other thing. Do you DHD on all different airlines? or do they send you on certain carriers? Coach on a Emirates flight is much different than coach on United.

You deadhead on whatever carrier is the cheapest. It also depends on where you live. If you live in New York, Chicago, Miami, etc etc, you'll literally be flying on every and all airlines. But if you live in say, Daytona, where it's only serviced by one or two major airlines, you'll really get a good opportunity to rack up the miles. On a side note, the Travel department has been fairly good on getting us on the airlines we prefer, as long as the costs are reasonable.

Any hope of a better schedule in the future? 20 on 10 off is a tough pill to swallow for a father and a husband.

The 20/10 schedule is mostly going away. Our trip rig is 3.5 hours a day; at 17 days you would hit guarantee. So pilots were in effect getting paid 10.5 hours of overtime every month, without doing any real flying. This stemmed from a previous comment of mine ("vindictive, child-like behavior") where one of the guys in charge decided "well, since my office group works 20 days a month, my pilot group must as well!".

Luckily, the new CEO realized how... well, let's just say counter-productive that train of thought actually is, and so now the company is striving to get people home in 17 days. Most guys I talk to get home between 15-17 days. Those who live in the cities we service (and are senior enough to hold those lines) get even more time off. The Anchorage guys holding Korean have it good.

 

[SBD]

You say you guys DHD a lot. Does that include foreign countries too. Any chance of say DHD'ing on Uzbek Express/Somali airlines? Don't want to trust my life on some third rate airline.

 

[gringo]

You say you guys DHD a lot. Does that include foreign countries too. Any chance of say DHD'ing on Uzbek Express/Somali airlines? Don't want to trust my life on some third rate airline.

The few guys who have flown Uzbekistan Air (or whatever it's called) said it was a really nice flight. However, we no longer fly into Uzbekistan, so the point is moot. Other than that, we pretty much fly all the 1st tier airlines. United, Delta, AA, KLM, Air Frog, Emirates, Malaysian, Turkish, Lufthansa, Ethiopian, Egypt Air, Quantas, Korean, Asiana, ANA, Southwest... You get the picture.

Most of the time we sit in the back, but people have been known to get upgraded. Delta, AA and United are very good about that.

Hopefully Business Class travel will be a major focal point in our next contract.

 

[3blade]

Thanks for the reply Gringo.

 

[ROSWELL41]

Is all the hiring going to be on the 747 Classic? How much can a first year FO expect to make?

 

[flyprop]

Is all the hiring going to be on the 747 Classic? How much can a first year FO expect to make?

How about second year also...?

 

[gringo]

Is all the hiring going to be on the 747 Classic? How much can a first year FO expect to make?

Website gives also lists minimums for an IRO candidate, so it's possible the company will hire into all three- the Classic, 400 and 777. Nothing official has come down from HQ yet.

How about second year also...?

Our pay scale is listed on APC. Plan on flying guarantee; anything over you should consider as a bonus. Average per diem comes out to about $900 a month. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but usually right around $900-925.

Although our pay rates are pathetically low, we are working on getting them on par with the rest of the industry. We start negotiating our contract in August. And although these things do tend to drag out for extended periods of time, it's my personal belief that the contract will go through much faster, for various reasons already posted elsewhere.

Also, with the projected growth, it's entirely possible that qualified candidates will get to upgrade in less than two years, so that's something to keep in mind, but as with everything else in this industry, I wouldn't plan my next house payment with that.

 

[3blade]

So if you get home after 16 days are you then off for 14 or is it always just 10 off?

 

[gringo]

So if you get home after 16 days are you then off for 14 or is it always just 10 off?

You would be off 14 days then, until the start of your next rotation. If you bid back-to-back days off, you could end up with 24 days (or more) off in a row. Of course, that means you'll eventually have to bid back-to-back again to get on the rotation you prefer (first half or second half of the month off) so you can be gone for 30+ days in a row then.

I've been averaging maybe 12-13 days off a month for the past year. I've had two 30+ day stretches at home as well, followed by long trips overseas.

But for the most part, if you consistently bid the same block of days off, you'll likely get at least 12 days off a month, consecutively.

Of course, this is all subject to change, and does frequently. It's just the nature of the beast.

 

[swordfish]

You would be off 14 days then, until the start of your next rotation. If you bid back-to-back days off, you could end up with 24 days (or more) off in a row. Of course, that means you'll eventually have to bid back-to-back again to get on the rotation you prefer (first half or second half of the month off) so you can be gone for 30+ days in a row then.

I've been averaging maybe 12-13 days off a month for the past year. I've had two 30+ day stretches at home as well, followed by long trips overseas.

But for the most part, if you consistently bid the same block of days off, you'll likely get at least 12 days off a month, consecutively.

Of course, this is all subject to change, and does frequently. It's just the nature of the beast.

gringo you must be management.! nice pipe dream, if this place is so wonderful why is everyone leaving?

 

[gringo]

gringo you must be management.! nice pipe dream, if this place is so wonderful why is everyone leaving?

Yup. Totally nailed it. Now you just have to figure out which one.

But, since you DID bring it up to my attention that somehow I'm painting an unrealistically rosy picture of this place, I'll make the following disclaimer:

Kids, if you come over here, just be advised that Southern Air does suffer from an unusually large amount of disgruntled, unhappy and otherwise unsatisfied pilots. Whether this lack of satisfaction comes as a result from crossing a line years and years ago, or from having lost their dream job after Pan Am's collapse, or some other reason, we do have those pilots who like to do nothing but complain while not offering up any solutions. They live in the past while scoffing those who look ahead and try to make this a better place.

Most pilots are not this way, but a few are.

And yes, while a few people did in fact leave over the past few months, it's hardly what you would call a "stampede"- with the exception of a few engineers that have gone over to Kalitta, the majority of people leaving over the past few months went to Atlas, JetBlue, Southwest and American.

Of course, quite a few left Atlas to do the same, so I'm guessing things must really be terrible there as well.

 

[ROSWELL41]

So I've been looking at making the ACMI jump for a while. I am married with no children and my wife is also a 121 pilot. Are there guys at Southern who are married and have families? People keep warning me that these types of jobs can create lots of family problems. Any personal experience?

 

[Flyer1015]

This sounds like a good opportunity, but as a married guy (no kids yet), there is no way I can do 20 away at a time, and only 10 off. And once kids come, 20 days away is well outside the question.

 

[gringo]

So I've been looking at making the ACMI jump for a while. I am married with no children and my wife is also a 121 pilot. Are there guys at Southern who are married and have families? People keep warning me that these types of jobs can create lots of family problems. Any personal experience?

It can go either way. I know plenty of guys with solid marriages and great relations with their kids. I also know lots of guys workingon their third marriage.

Personally, I believe if you start this job with a strong marriage, you'll do fine. If you enter the ACMI world with a weak marriage, then not so much.

One nearly universal constant with the guys with happy home lives is where they live, or more specifically, where their spouse's FAMILY lives. Most of the guys I know (myself included) have improved their situation simply by moving close to their spouse's family. Your wife will fare much much better if she's got her family as a support group for when you're gone.

It really makes the "home basing" aspect really great.

As far as the long trips from home, well, that goes both ways. Yes, you're Von for longer stretches of time, but when you come home, that's it. (Unless you get called out for some reason, something that does happen once in a while.)

My family hates it when I leave, but when I'm home for 10-15 days at a time, each month, we have fun. Lots and lots of "mini vacations".

Is it the same as if you'd be flying for a major, living at domicile and bidding reserve? Of course not- that schedule would be awesome. But it's about the next best thing. And not having to do the whole commuting rigamarole really helps.

In a nutshell, I don't think it's any harder or easier to maintain a marriage while flying ACMI vs flying for a national, LCC or major airline. While there are many factors involved, the most important factor transcends whatever type of flying you do. If you have a solid marriage, you'll make it work, no matter what. If you have a weak marriage, at least you'll have an opportunity for some fun on Hooker Hill in Itaewon. It's really up to you.

 

[DHPFLYN]

Are you typed in the 747 ?

 

[swordfish]

Yup. Totally nailed it. Now you just have to figure out which one.

But, since you DID bring it up to my attention that somehow I'm painting an unrealistically rosy picture of this place, I'll make the following disclaimer:

Kids, if you come over here, just be advised that Southern Air does suffer from an unusually large amount of disgruntled, unhappy and otherwise unsatisfied pilots. Whether this lack of satisfaction comes as a result from crossing a line years and years ago, or from having lost their dream job after Pan Am's collapse, or some other reason, we do have those pilots who like to do nothing but complain while not offering up any solutions. They live in the past while scoffing those who look ahead and try to make this a better place.

Most pilots are not this way, but a few are.

And yes, while a few people did in fact leave over the past few months, it's hardly what you would call a "stampede"- with the exception of a few engineers that have gone over to Kalitta, the majority of people leaving over the past few months went to Atlas, JetBlue, Southwest and American.

Of course, quite a few left Atlas to do the same, so I'm guessing things must really be terrible there as well.

OR how about:

-24+ hour duty days

-having to fight for your pay the way the contract reads.

-Dead heading around the world in the back-middle seat on Air India or Ethiopian Airlines, etc, (just to name a few from the past 2 months.)

-siting in a hotel for 15 days in a row without flying one trip, just to have scheduling tell you that you have to work on your GDO because your the only one ( im in the top 20% of the pilots list)

-flying to (WAR Zones) Afghanistan etc. without any hazard pay.

-Geting to the destination after being up for over 30+ hrs and there never any transportation set up (Happened every trip last month, Except IN BKK. )

-Geting to the hotel and your Reservation has be canceled or Set up for the Wrong day, (Happened 4 time last month...)

-F**kup Flight plans... with misSING requirements, (every trip to many to list).

-Over nights in dangerous city in Africa with out secure transportation to or from the hotel.

- having to hold for 30 + min because dispatcher never filed over flight permits.

-flying airplanes without GPS, having countries ground, and impound your aircraft because you can't operate RNAV the way they want. DXB

-detained by CUSTOMS for hrs because the company can't set up VISA for crewmembers.


HEY BUT SOME PEOPLE REALLY LIKE THIS TYPE OF FLYING!

 

[HA25]

Like I said, I know a captain who left to go to Kalitta. That's how bad Southern is.

 

[maxfly1]

Like I said, I know a captain who left to go to Kalitta. That's how bad Southern is.

I don't know of any Captains who went to Kalitta, a bunch of FEs did. Why would you go from CA pay to FO and lose senority?

Southern is not as bad as people paint it, if you don't like it, go somewhere else... Our pilot group is working on it. There are much worse places, that I know for a fact.

And I can tell you, that having proper security on the way to the hotel in Africa is not that safe either, he will drop his AK before you blink and run off if he sees something's going down.

 

[gringo]

OR how about:

-24+ hour duty days

-having to fight for your pay the way the contract reads.

-Dead heading around the world in the back-middle seat on Air India or Ethiopian Airlines, etc, (just to name a few from the past 2 months.)

-siting in a hotel for 15 days in a row without flying one trip, just to have scheduling tell you that you have to work on your GDO because your the only one ( im in the top 20% of the pilots list)

-flying to (WAR Zones) Afghanistan etc. without any hazard pay.

-Geting to the destination after being up for over 30+ hrs and there never any transportation set up (Happened every trip last month, Except IN BKK. )

-Geting to the hotel and your Reservation has be canceled or Set up for the Wrong day, (Happened 4 time last month...)

-F**kup Flight plans... with misSING requirements, (every trip to many to list).

-Over nights in dangerous city in Africa with out secure transportation to or from the hotel.

- having to hold for 30 + min because dispatcher never filed over flight permits.

-flying airplanes without GPS, having countries ground, and impound your aircraft because you can't operate RNAV the way they want. DXB

-detained by CUSTOMS for hrs because the company can't set up VISA for crewmembers.


HEY BUT SOME PEOPLE REALLY LIKE THIS TYPE OF FLYING!

Sword, I appreciate your frustration, and I can certainly understand it. Every single one of your complaints has validity behind them.

The question I pose you is this: what, if anything, have you done about it? Have you sent in a report to the proper people when your flight plan was jacked up? Have you sent in a report when your hotel reservation was screwed up? Or when the proper visa documentation wasn't in order, did you report it?

Or did you do what many here currently do, which is nothing except complain? It's a rhetorical question, I really don't need to know the answer. If you did file the proper reports, then good. If you didn't, then start. Southern Air got to the state that it's in today for many reasons, crew group apathy being a big one. I know 2 years ago when the Neffs were in charge, there was a vindictive hostile management in place, and pilots were happy just to have a job, so they took whatever crap came down from the mountaintop.

For the most part, that's been removed. Changes are happening. When was the last time you had a 24+ duty day? Mine was last year. The GDO pay issue has been resolved; it took far longer than it should have, but we got the result we deserved. Travel in middle seat coach? Yeah, that's a load of bull, but it will be addressed in negotiations.

We have a long way to go to get where we want to be. Make no mistake, at no point did I ever try to paint a rosy picture of this place, and I'm not making up anything to try to entice people to come here. Read back every one of my posts; everything I write about this place is nothing but fact. Yes, this place is screwed up, but more importantly, it has the ability to change. Maintenance is improving, QOL is improving, and most importantly, our on time performance is improving, allowing us to get some of the big name clients we've just signed contracts with.

There are better places to be, for sure. But there are far far worse places as well. Stop complaining and start becoming more proactive. That's the only way this place will improve.

 

[daytona]

OR how about:

-24+ hour duty days

-having to fight for your pay the way the contract reads.

-Dead heading around the world in the back-middle seat on Air India or Ethiopian Airlines, etc, (just to name a few from the past 2 months.)

-siting in a hotel for 15 days in a row without flying one trip, just to have scheduling tell you that you have to work on your GDO because your the only one ( im in the top 20% of the pilots list)

-flying to (WAR Zones) Afghanistan etc. without any hazard pay.

-Geting to the destination after being up for over 30+ hrs and there never any transportation set up (Happened every trip last month, Except IN BKK. )

-Geting to the hotel and your Reservation has be canceled or Set up for the Wrong day, (Happened 4 time last month...)

-F**kup Flight plans... with misSING requirements, (every trip to many to list).

-Over nights in dangerous city in Africa with out secure transportation to or from the hotel.

- having to hold for 30 + min because dispatcher never filed over flight permits.

-flying airplanes without GPS, having countries ground, and impound your aircraft because you can't operate RNAV the way they want. DXB

-detained by CUSTOMS for hrs because the company can't set up VISA for crewmembers.


HEY BUT SOME PEOPLE REALLY LIKE THIS TYPE OF FLYING!

Finally the truth comes out. I would rather mow yards than work at that scumbag place.

 

[Richard]

Want to mow mine while I work at that "scumbag place"? I pay $8/hr.

 

[daytona]

Sure!! At least I would be home at night and not sitting in a dirtbag hotel on my days off because the company was to cheap to buy me a ticket home.

 

[maxfly1]

Sure!! At least I would be home at night and not sitting in a dirtbag hotel on my days off because the company was to cheap to buy me a ticket home.

We're mostly staying in 4-5 star hotels and you will be home for your days off weather you like it or not.

 

[gringo]

Sure!! At least I would be home at night and not sitting in a dirtbag hotel on my days off because the company was to cheap to buy me a ticket home.

Daytona, it's really too bad you feel that way. We could use more people with your mad analytical skills here.

I mean, your power of deductive logic is incredible. By just reading that one post, you were able to ascertain that we stay in fleabag hotels while the company keeps us from home just because.

And you're spot on! I mean, check out some of these dives I've been forced to stay at!

http://www.panpacific.com/KLairport/Overview.html
http://www1.hilton.com/en_US/hi/hotel/ANCAHHF-Hilton-Anchorage-Alaska/index.do
http://www1.hilton.com/en_US/hi/hotel/SELHITW-Millennium-Seoul-Hilton-hotel/index.do
http://www.hongkong.intercontinental.com/hongkong.intercontinental.com/kowgra/index.html
http://www1.hilton.com/en_US/hi/hotel/ADDHITW-Hilton-Addis-Ababa-hotel/index.do
http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/selcy-courtyard-seoul-times-square/
http://www.holidayinn.com/hotels/us/en/dubai/dubdt/hoteldetail
http://www.frankfurt.intercontinental.com/
http://www.bullinn-bartonmills.com/
http://doubletree1.hilton.com/en_US...by-Hilton-Alana-Waikiki-Hotel-Hawaii/index.do
http://www1.hilton.com/en_US/hi/hotel/CHIOHHH-Hilton-Chicago-O-Hare-Airport-Illinois/index.do

I mean, total dives! But at least they all have gyms available. I'm sure you could appreciate that, keeping fit like that by jumping to conclusions like you do, you monster you! Maniac!

As far as the "not getting you home" bit, the only reason people get extended involuntarily these days, which to completely honest is a practice mostly discontinued, isn't because the company is too cheap to buy a ticket, it's because scheduling screwed up. Most (but not all) guys get home these days around 17 days.

And that does bring up one very good point; as messed up as this place is, I will give them credit where its due. If you have a family emergency, most of the time they will drop everything and get you a ticket home. Right away.

Too bad you'd rather be mowing lawns. We could really use high quality individuals like you here.

 

[CX880]

OR how about:

-24+ hour duty days

-having to fight for your pay the way the contract reads.

-Dead heading around the world in the back-middle seat on Air India or Ethiopian Airlines, etc, (just to name a few from the past 2 months.)

-siting in a hotel for 15 days in a row without flying one trip, just to have scheduling tell you that you have to work on your GDO because your the only one ( im in the top 20% of the pilots list)

-flying to (WAR Zones) Afghanistan etc. without any hazard pay.

-Geting to the destination after being up for over 30+ hrs and there never any transportation set up (Happened every trip last month, Except IN BKK. )

-Geting to the hotel and your Reservation has be canceled or Set up for the Wrong day, (Happened 4 time last month...)

-F**kup Flight plans... with misSING requirements, (every trip to many to list).

-Over nights in dangerous city in Africa with out secure transportation to or from the hotel.

- having to hold for 30 + min because dispatcher never filed over flight permits.

-flying airplanes without GPS, having countries ground, and impound your aircraft because you can't operate RNAV the way they want. DXB

-detained by CUSTOMS for hrs because the company can't set up VISA for crewmembers.


HEY BUT SOME PEOPLE REALLY LIKE THIS TYPE OF FLYING!

Dang.

 

[maxfly1]

Daytona, it's really too bad you feel that way. We could use more people with your mad analytical skills here.

I mean, your power of deductive logic is incredible. By just reading that one post, you were able to ascertain that we stay in fleabag hotels while the company keeps us from home just because.

And you're spot on! I mean, check out some of these dives I've been forced to stay at!

http://www.panpacific.com/KLairport/Overview.html
http://www1.hilton.com/en_US/hi/hotel/ANCAHHF-Hilton-Anchorage-Alaska/index.do
http://www1.hilton.com/en_US/hi/hotel/SELHITW-Millennium-Seoul-Hilton-hotel/index.do
http://www.hongkong.intercontinental.com/hongkong.intercontinental.com/kowgra/index.html
http://www1.hilton.com/en_US/hi/hotel/ADDHITW-Hilton-Addis-Ababa-hotel/index.do
http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/selcy-courtyard-seoul-times-square/
http://www.holidayinn.com/hotels/us/en/dubai/dubdt/hoteldetail
http://www.frankfurt.intercontinental.com/
http://www.bullinn-bartonmills.com/
http://doubletree1.hilton.com/en_US...by-Hilton-Alana-Waikiki-Hotel-Hawaii/index.do
http://www1.hilton.com/en_US/hi/hotel/CHIOHHH-Hilton-Chicago-O-Hare-Airport-Illinois/index.do

I mean, total dives! But at least they all have gyms available. I'm sure you could appreciate that, keeping fit like that by jumping to conclusions like you do, you monster you! Maniac!

As far as the "not getting you home" bit, the only reason people get extended involuntarily these days, which to completely honest is a practice mostly discontinued, isn't because the company is too cheap to buy a ticket, it's because scheduling screwed up. Most (but not all) guys get home these days around 17 days.

And that does bring up one very good point; as messed up as this place is, I will give them credit where its due. If you have a family emergency, most of the time they will drop everything and get you a ticket home. Right away.

Too bad you'd rather be mowing lawns. We could really use high quality individuals like you here.

You forgot "OKURA"(Japanes hotel) in Downtown Amsterdam. This dump has a $300, correct me if I'm wrong, coffee machine in the room.

I agree they will go out of their way to get you home for family emergency, no questions asked. That's a fact too.

 

[DHPFLYN]

Has anyone heard anything else after being asked to update? I updated a couple weeks ago and have heard nothing.

 

[gringo]

Have they announced who the CMI deal is with?

Still nothing official on the CMI deal, but we do have a 777 in the paint shop now getting DHL colors applied.

 

[johnsonrod]

Still nothing official on the CMI deal, but we do have a 777 in the paint shop now getting DHL colors applied.

Gringo,

What's the deal with all of the recent pilot movement to the 777? Is it because of new incoming 777 airframes or due to pilots leaving the 777 (i.e., attrition)? Does the 777 pay better than the 747s? Is flying the Whale just unattractive vs. the 777 these days???? I still remember the days when everyone was dying to someday fly a Whale... I guess too many buttons, switches and knobs. :laugh:

 

[Nolife]

Want to mow mine while I work at that "scumbag place"? I pay $8/hr.

Going rate is $50 per lawn.