Southern Hiring

[DA-20]

I thought Southern had a pool with guys in it from last year? Alot of guys.

 

[Wayunderated]

I thought Southern had a pool with guys in it from last year? Alot of guys.

I believe there was a pool of roughly 20 folks from last year. Some have opted to moved on to other things since then but not all. I also believe there will still be several slots available after going through the existing pool so don't let that discourage you. Good luck in your endeavours.

 

[gringo]

Gringo,

What's the deal with all of the recent pilot movement to the 777? Is it because of new incoming 777 airframes or due to pilots leaving the 777 (i.e., attrition)? Does the 777 pay better than the 747s? Is flying the Whale just unattractive vs. the 777 these days???? I still remember the days when everyone was dying to someday fly a Whale... I guess too many buttons, switches and knobs. :laugh:

The recent "big movement" to the 777 last month can be mostly attributed to the CMI deal that was being worked on. It's my understanding that Boeing has super limited slots available to perform training, so the company had to get the 777 pilot pool spooled up before the deal was signed.

The same thing applies to the 400. We're going to have pilots fully trained and ready for it before we get one on property (although the rumor is that we now actually do have an N number), due to Boeing's lack of training capacity.

The 777 pays the same as the Classic and 400; poorly. But we're gonna fight like hell to improve that with the new contract.

As for why people are leaving the 200 to go to the 777, well, there's many reasons. I'd like to say it's SJS, but in reality, it's a supremely marketable type rating. It's also a NextGen aircraft, and lots of guys are simply tired of flying steam gauge, trying to calculate descent points, flying non-FMS aircraft, etc etc. I'm looking forward to moving over there as well, when I can hold the left seat.

As far as QOL goes, however, my money is on the Classic. The current plan is to have the 200's strictly flying the AMC contracts in the near future. The missions are rewarding, the catering is beyond excellent, as as former military, I enjoy this type of flying the most. Not to say that the QOL on the 777 or the 400 is bad either, but I prefer AMC flying over anything else that we do.

 

[Sir Innocenti]

Hoping for a call too. Flying AMC missions and flying to all these countries seems like an enjoyable challenge.....Fingers crossed...

 

[ROSWELL41]

What is the outlook on the AMC flying for the near future? Is this going to be reduced alot with Iraq and Afghanistan winding down? Also, why does the upgrade on the 747 Classic go so junior? I keep hearing that if hired on in this next round that the 747 Classic left seat could come in a year to a year and a half. How could this happen and why does nobody want that seat?

 

[gringo]

What is the outlook on the AMC flying for the near future? Is this going to be reduced alot with Iraq and Afghanistan winding down? Also, why does the upgrade on the 747 Classic go so junior? I keep hearing that if hired on in this next round that the 747 Classic left seat could come in a year to a year and a half. How could this happen and why does nobody want that seat?

The senior 200 Captains are moving over to the 777 and 400. Upgrade in under 18 months, at current rates, is completely possible. So it's not that nobody wants the seat, its simply that the senior guys are moving upwards in aircraft sophistication. Same thing happens just about everywhere else, too.

Like I said before, the 777 (and 400) type rating is supremely marketable, whereas the 200 isn't anymore. I think the 200 will have the better flying, but the 777 type will future-proof your career.

As far as the outlook for AMC flying, I don't have any specific numbers, but I would imagine that the winding down of Iraq and Afghanistan will take quite some time. Plus we have ongoing military operations worldwide. I believe our plan is to have up to 5 birds dedicated to the AMC, so there's still plenty of flying to be done in them!

 

[ROSWELL41]

Some follow on questions: What airframe do you anticipate newhires will be assigned to? Is there any seatlock for switching between airframes or for upgrade? Could a 777 F/O bid 747 Classic Capt once seniority allows? For the guys leaving Southern, where are they going? Do most guys on property plan on staying long term from your experience? Do most guys hang out alot when on the road or do you typically find yourself spending much time alone?

 

[gringo]

Some follow on questions: What airframe do you anticipate newhires will be assigned to? Is there any seatlock for switching between airframes or for upgrade? Could a 777 F/O bid 747 Classic Capt once seniority allows? For the guys leaving Southern, where are they going? Do most guys on property plan on staying long term from your experience? Do most guys hang out alot when on the road or do you typically find yourself spending much time alone?

Roz, neither I nor just about anyone else right now knows which airframe the new hires are going to go; I'm thinking the 200, due to the equipment lock expiring on many of our current guys flying the Classic. There is no seat lock, but that can change in the future. I'm not expecting it to, just saying that it's a possibility.

Once your equipment lock is up, you can bid for any seat you want. 777FO to 742 Captain? No prob. 742 Captain to 777FO? You betcha. Seniority will determine whether you get the bid or not.

As for on the road, most of the guys (and girls, we do have a few flying here) like to go out of the hotel when sitting on their butts for days at a time. It really depends; I've been with crews who couldn't be bothered to leave their rooms, and I've been with crews who were desperately trying to re-live their drunken fratboy days. But for the most part, the crews here are probably like the crews at any other ACMI carrier; they tend to hang out as one unit while on the road. Just like at Atlas, Polar or Kalitta, you'll get some guys who are excellent road warriors, some not so much.

I don't know if most guys plan on staying here long term, but a lot of them (that I talk to, anyway) seem to want to. A lot of them, especially the more senior guys, really don't see any point in leaving here to start at the bottom of another list somewhere, especially with contract negotiations coming up. You see, because "as bad" as things are over here, a lot of guys realize that a) it's not really that bad, and b) there's really no place to go but up. 24 months ago I would have thought differently, but today no. The guys who do leave (and there has been a significant amount these past few months) tend to go to "career" airlines; Atlas, JetBlue, Southwest. At least one went to the 777 at Emirates. A bunch have taken their recall to AA. Some engineers have left for Kalitta; I'm told a Captain left to go right seat there, but I don't buy it, and my friends there haven't been able to confirm it.

Hope this helps.

 

[ROSWELL41]

How long is the equipment lock? How would you rate the training and maintenance at Southern? Do newhires receive full PIC types in the 777 and 744 but not in the 747 Classic? What is a 'typical' trip like? Is it usually one leg, then two or three days in the hotel followed by one leg, etc? Do you guys get any travel benefits on any carriers (ZED agreements, cabin jumpseat agreements, etc)? Thanks again!

 

[gringo]

How long is the equipment lock? How would you rate the training and maintenance at Southern? Do newhires receive full PIC types in the 777 and 744 but not in the 747 Classic? What is a 'typical' trip like? Is it usually one leg, then two or three days in the hotel followed by one leg, etc? Do you guys get any travel benefits on any carriers (ZED agreements, cabin jumpseat agreements, etc)? Thanks again!

2 year equipment lock. Maintenance is getting better. They no longer consider the APU to be a deferable "crew comfort" item. Training is about average for ACMI. Getting better, it seems, but still more of a "home study DIY fire-hose" type of environment. Also, training goes for 6 days a week, which is bull$#it, but there you have it.FO's get PIC types in the 777 and 400, SIC type in the Classic. No such thing as a "typical" leg. You might fly one or two legs in a day then sit for a whole week, or you might be flying a lot. Or a little. Or somewhere in between. Lots of guys use this down time to learn another language, trade the markets, finish school, catch up on sleep, etc etc. No travel benefits. You get to keep your miles, but currently, that's about it. If you live in Daytona, you'll rack up those Delta miles fast. If you live in New York, you'll rack up a few points on a lot of airlines spread about. I'm told we can jumpseat on JetBlue, and maybe a few others, but I haven't tried it myself.

And as far as the 777 CMI deal, nothing official yet, but I hear it's a dynamite customer...

 

[ROSWELL41]

So would the two year equipment lock prevent an FO from upgrading to Classic Capt from say 777 FO even if seniority could hold it at 18 mos?

 

[gringo]

So would the two year equipment lock prevent an FO from upgrading to Classic Capt from say 777 FO even if seniority could hold it at 18 mos?

Technically, yes, although the company could waive the seat lock when it suits them, as they just did last month with the 777 bid.

That being said, however, spending a few more months in the right seat would not be a bad idea, especially if all you've flown was domestic daytime passenger ops. This is a whole different ballgame, and you're out here pretty much all alone. Nobody's holding your hand down in Africa, and you certainly don't want to be put in a position where the first time you experience something outside your comfort zone is when you're sitting in the left seat. If you've never flown widebody ACMI before, it's a steep learning curve. You'll be in non-radar environments, or radar environments where the controllers haven't been trained (Africa). Or dodging thunderstorms over the Indian Ocean talking to Mumbai on the HF, asking "did you understand what he just said???" to the rest of your crews. Or landing at airports that set QFE instead of QNH, while trying to convert their metric to standard. Or doing an arrival to an airport with 6 runways, but 34 different STARS. (Germans and their love of procedures!) The list goes on and on...

You're not flying in Kansas anymore Toto, but it's a HELL of a lot of fun!

 

[swordfish]

So would the two year equipment lock prevent an FO from upgrading to Classic Capt from say 777 FO even if seniority could hold it at 18 mos?

just talk to two B777 FO last months that wanted to go back to the Classics as Captain but the company won;t let them because there aircraft locked ( there lock expires in Jan), the company removed the lock just to help the company out. spoke with our CP the other day he told me all new hires will be hired into the 400 and 777, there won't be any street captain hired! there retiring all the classic except 4. and he said we have 6- 400's, all will be on property by 2nd quarter of 2012, next/ last two b777 will be here by quarter 1. the company is presenting the 400 to the FAA on the 20th of Aug's with the hope of the first two 400's by Dec. Also told the CMI deal is not going to happen, since the company got the 777 off thai early they want to make sure that they perform well for DHL.

Sword

 

[ROSWELL41]

So essentially that would mean a net loss in airframes if that is the case? That's pretty different from what other people are saying. If so, I may have to rethink this whole thing as joining a shrinking company can be pretty risky.

 

[naseft]

Upcoming Interview with Southern Air

Folks; I have an upcoming Interview next week with Southern in Miami, any input, advise and inside info as for what they are looking for will be grately appreciated. Once I come out of the interview, I shall put the latest info. For NOW I have none , so reaching out there!!!!

Thanks in advance folks.

 

[atpcliff]

Cliff, I certainly hope you're not trying to compare SAI with the propaganda machine of Nazi Germany. Or even that of our own War Department. (God, do I miss that term- "Department of Defense" just dosen't convey the same awesomeness, does it?)

SAI certainly has its share of issues, but things are getting better. I remember a time not too long ago where Atlas's future looked just as bad as ours. They managed to turn themselves around and are now considered to be the premiere ACMI hauler in the industry.

That IS good for the Southern crews. Last I heard was about 1.5 years ago, and I was told it was bad. The captain telling me this said EVERY crewmember at Southern had been out on the road for over 30 days at that point. The capt said they were VERY short of crews and pilots and were worked like dogs.

It sounds like mgmt decided that was not the best way to run an airline...good for them!

cliff
HNL

 

[gringo]

That IS good for the Southern crews. Last I heard was about 1.5 years ago, and I was told it was bad. The captain telling me this said EVERY crewmember at Southern had been out on the road for over 30 days at that point. The capt said they were VERY short of crews and pilots and were worked like dogs.

It sounds like mgmt decided that was not the best way to run an airline...good for them!

cliff
HNL

About a year ago, we were extremely short staffed on the Classic. And the 777 guys did get royally screwed; a lot of them I'm told didn't go home for over two months. I personally was out for almost 60 days myself, but I was able to volunteer for it. Made some good money, too. Not as much as if we were Atlas or even Kalitta, but more than the norm.

There has been a lot of changes here in the last 12-18 months, and most of it for the better. The next 12-18 months look to be even more promising...
But things are much better now

 

[naseft]

Hey Gringo:
would you be able to pass any info/gouge regarding the interview. i have mine next week any input would be great please.
thanks

 

[venator]

Hey Gringo:
would you be able to pass any info/gouge regarding the interview. i have mine next week any input would be great please.
thanks

Hi, I'm not Gringo but thought this post from Wayunderated was helpful.
I have an interview after yours (in 3 1/2 weeks) and wondered if you would post about your interview?
Thanks and good luck.

"The interview was very low key and comfortable. It started out with a group meet and greet followed by an overall discussion of "where are we now, where are we planning to go and what are we all about". Then, they wrapped it up with a question & answer session.

Afterwards, there are two face to face interviews (one with the 777 Chief Pilot and the new DO, the other with two ladies from HR) and a ride in a 737-200 sim.

The face to face interviews were very relaxed so don't get uptight. They really didn't ask any technical or "tell me about a time" questions. It felt like they just wanted to see if they liked you as an individual and they said the main purpose behind the interview was the sim evaluation.

For the sim, they usually took two interviewees at a time. One would sit in the back and watch while the other is evaluated, then you'd switch places. In the right seat, helping you out a LOT, was a Check Airman. No briefings, no checklists, just a straight forward evaluation of your flying ability. He would tell you where to bug your speeds, when to lower the flaps and the new airspeed to maintain for that configuration. You manipulate the flight controls and the thrust levers, however, you can ask him to make the final tweaks to your power settings for take off. Runway heading, a couple vectors, "turn direct to the VOR and hold X on the XXX radial". What they're looking for here is; can you enter a hold correctly, do you know what the max holding speed is for your altitude and did you think to make the required calls (i.e time entering the hold). It wouldn't hurt to brief your FO on your holding intentions and ask for confirmation. Shows good CRM and keeps you from blowing the hold because you're nervous and maybe missed the fact that he said "left turns". Then, it's vectors to the ILS for landing. On the way, they may ask "Where are you? Where's the airport in relation to us?". Then, a normal ILS to landing. The things to watch for in the sim are: Be easy on the controls! As with any plane, if you hamfist this thing, you're altitude, airspeed and heading control will be horrible! Scan constantly and be real careful of the sink as you roll into turns and the balloon as you roll out. It took surprisingly large thrust lever adjustments to maintain a level, constant airspeed turn so be prepared for that. After every flap position change, count 5 - 7 seconds and be prepared for it to balloon! Make small corrections and she'll fly beautiful. Make large corrections and you'll be all over the place. This may sound obvious but you'd be surprised how many comments there were about how hard this sim was to fly. Don't get freaked out, just use finesse and make small pitch corrections."

I hope this helps. Good luck!

 

[naseft]

Thanks for the info Venator. It was very helpful. I will let you know how it went. Keep ur fingers crossed for me
Regards