Something's not right here at ASA

[www.]

It will pass in the 60-70% range, but 95% of our pilots will say they voted it down.

I say about 60% for and you can thank PD for the scheduling section that you will have to live with for 3+ year. Good luck, it's not pretty.

 

[www.]

So you'll accept anything because it's new and endorsed by the MEC?
I think the CNC made a deal that required them to.

From what I have seen, the MEC way overreached in trying to "capture" all the "new" concepts. CNC didn't do a great job of communicating specific language.

They got schooled because the company allowed the new concepts but cleaned up any vague language in those and others in their favor.

This TA gives the company so much more flexibility in exercising their incompetence than before. You are correct. Last contract JUMPED forward locking up the flexibity and now we gave it right back.

This TA is in no way worth five years of negotiating. Not in any way. Can I have my dues back now? Correct and No![/quote]


.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe...you have had many common sense post so with respect I say:

1. The 700 rates. Look at Horizon and the old CMR rates. very reasonable and allows the company to still make a profit.

2. The 200 rates are for a dying airplane. (Sorry for you, but the ATR too. Maybe a turbo prop if oil stays high, but who flies it I don't know.)

3. Five hours after the footprint on IROP and two hour after on a "normal day". That is no good. What is great about Section 13...sorry buger.

Joe there are many more, but I just got home from a 3 day and have to go back on Sunday so I am very tired. Fly safe out there ASA guys and gals.

101040,

I understand your points..... and they are valid....

1. The 700 rates are a huge disappointment to me.... I believe they could have been higher if we had gone in right away 5 years ago and taken the better parts of the CMR deal... ie 700 rates, and Bfund...However that may have resulted in us being dragged into BK with CMR....

In those 5 years however, the competitive landscape has changed in the DCI "portfolio".... We are now competing with CMR, PCL, and Mesa for 700-900 flying all of which have lower rates than we currently have.... The PCL rates are going to arbitration, but I bet they come in much lower than our current rates...

2. I would gladly give back some of the ATR payraise for better scope.... but I don't think ALPA has the will to fight for a single list...... The 200 captains got a large raise because it was the only seat at ASA that was below industry average.... actually it was at the bottom... therefor it gets the biggest raise....

3. I agree that we conceded many things..... in addition to what you posted, the line check pilots took concessions and the FO rates aren't 60% of captains rates.... We also did not get the "100% retro" that many were screaming for....We gave up many things, but that is what you do when you "negotiate".... You don't get everything you want.... We were never going to get a release even though some said we were.....

I encourage those of you who aren't happy to vote no..... however if this is voted down, it will probably be 12 months or so before you get something else to vote on and it will be very similar..... maybe even worse..... I predict it will pass about 65%-35%....

I am not at all happy about the scope section.... I don't think it provides much protection.... but I am voting yes.... It is time to move forward and focus on the future...... That includes holding ALPA's feet to the fire in putting a stop to this silly "bidding war" within a brand....

We can get Horizon rates once we put a stop to the bidding war..... We have been trying to put the cart before the horse, and that just doesn't work....

 

[bluefly72]

101040,

I understand your points..... and they are valid....

1. The 700 rates are a huge disappointment to me.... I believe they could have been higher if we had gone in right away 5 years ago and taken the better parts of the CMR deal... ie 700 rates, and Bfund...However that may have resulted in us being dragged into BK with CMR....

In those 5 years however, the competitive landscape has changed in the DCI "portfolio".... We are now competing with CMR, PCL, and Mesa for 700-900 flying all of which have lower rates than we currently have.... The PCL rates are going to arbitration, but I bet they come in much lower than our current rates...

2. I would gladly give back some of the ATR payraise for better scope.... but I don't think ALPA has the will to fight for a single list...... The 200 captains got a large raise because it was the only seat at ASA that was below industry average.... actually it was at the bottom... therefor it gets the biggest raise....

3. I agree that we conceded many things..... in addition to what you posted, the line check pilots took concessions and the FO rates aren't 60% of captains rates.... We also did not get the "100% retro" that many were screaming for....We gave up many things, but that is what you do when you "negotiate".... You don't get everything you want.... We were never going to get a release even though some said we were.....

I encourage those of you who aren't happy to vote no..... however if this is voted down, it will probably be 12 months or so before you get something else to vote on and it will be very similar..... maybe even worse..... I predict it will pass about 65%-35%....

I am not at all happy about the scope section.... I don't think it provides much protection.... but I am voting yes.... It is time to move forward and focus on the future...... That includes holding ALPA's feet to the fire in putting a stop to this silly "bidding war" within a brand....

We can get Horizon rates once we put a stop to the bidding war..... We have been trying to put the cart before the horse, and that just doesn't work....

Unless I'm missing something here, FO rates ARE 60% of the Captain rates...

 

[sweptback]

Unless I'm missing something here, FO rates ARE 60% of the Captain rates...

They most definitely are, with the exception of first year pay (which is not 60% in current book either).

There aren't many regional airlines left with FO rates pegged at 60% at Captain rates... but ASA is one of them.

 

[HoserASA]

One of the things I have a question about is lines designated TMT. What lines are these going to be? The "good" 3 day trip lines on the 200 for instance, nap lines, or somewhere in between? There's a few of us who stay on the 200 for the QOL, but if those lines that allow that QOL are TMT lines, uh uh. But, I'm waiting for the TA and road shows before I say yes or no to it.

Hoser

 

[Speedtape]

We're being told here at Skywest, that Skywest, Inc plans on transfering 4 aircraft from ASA to Skywest by Feb 2008.

That would cost them about 3 million to transfer. I doubt it.

We are being told that Skywest is pulling out of ATL and that more new planes are coming in 2008. You will be in LAX.

BuBye YALL!!

 

[John Pennekamp]

Any transfers won't be direct. They will be retire and reward, where an ASA -200 or two is traded in for a new -700 or -900. And then the new airplane is put at Skywest.

Our scope clause is a road map to what the company plans to do with ASA over the next 5 years or so. They have the fight to transfer up to 5 airplanes per year without taking the pilots. If they can, they will.

 

[Smoke Toliet]

-The scope section is worthless. It provides little job protection. Retire and reward is exactly whats going to happen.

-The min-day, duty rig, is based of scheduled day. It does nothing for when you delayed.

-The scheduling section had some very loose laungage that you know company will take full advantage of.

-All this combined with little pay increases.

Why would I sign this rag? Voting NO!