Something's not right here at ASA

[Medeco]

Hey what about free flu shots? Seems like we've had them every year but haven't seen or heard about us geting them this year? UHC sucks! By the way why is ASA giving Skywest yet another 4 of our freaking airplanes? Are they doing this because now we have a TA and they want to transfer them before the contract passes? I know I know 20 questions!

I havent seen anything in writing about the transfer of 4 planes.

Did I miss a memo, or you guys taking the word of the other post as fact?

Medeco

 

[bluefly72]

Who said the new contract will pass anyway?

So far, I am absolutely not excited about what I've seen...

so are you excited about the current one?

 

[Noise]

Man, that was the one of the ONLY discounts in ATL. Except for Nathan's on D.

Don't forget about Popeye's on C, but only when you get one of the chicken sandwiches....

 

[No Delay]

The cp sec. has the discount cards. You can buy 1 for a dollar...but it only has a couple of months left on it.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

so are you about the current one?

So you'll accept anything because it's new and endorsed by the MEC?

From what I have seen, the MEC way overreached in trying to "capture" all the "new" concepts.

They got schooled because the company allowed the new concepts but cleaned up any vague language in those and others in their favor.

This TA gives the company so much more flexibility in exercising their incompetence than before.

This TA is in no way worth five years of negotiating. Not in any way. Can I have my dues back now?

 

[scarlet]

Oakum what did you want? Just wondering? Jetblue pays 80-85 an hour for E190, same does USAIR, and soon NW, and Delta 90 seat rate not even at around 100k?

 

[JoeMerchant]

So you'll accept anything because it's new and endorsed by the MEC?

From what I have seen, the MEC way overreached in trying to "capture" all the "new" concepts.

They got schooled because the company allowed the new concepts but cleaned up any vague language in those and others in their favor.

This TA gives the company so much more flexibility in exercising their incompetence than before.

This TA is in no way worth five years of negotiating. Not in any way. Can I have my dues back now?

Kinda ironic.... now I will have to defend the MEC.... This agreement is far from perfect, and the scope isn't worth a darn..... however it is the best we can do given the competitive environment we are in.....

Some of you had expectations that were too high..... Time to move on and focus on why we have lost leverage..... and do something to regain the leverage we lost....

 

[101040]

No Way!

This TA gives the company so much more flexibility in exercising their incompetence than before.

This TA is in no way worth five years of negotiating. Not in any way. Can I have my dues back now?

You are correct. If we vote this TA in we have only ourselfs to blame. There is a major pilot shortage and the pilot group has the upper hand. For those of you staying at ASA......Do not vote this contract in!

 

[JoeMerchant]

You are correct. If we vote this TA in we have only ourselfs to blame. There is a major pilot shortage and the pilot group has the upper hand. For those of you staying at ASA......Do not vote this contract in!

101040,

Specifically, which parts are you not happy with? Can you provide industry comparisons to the sections you aren't happy with? Specifics please.....

 

[101040]

With Respect

Joe...you have had many common sense post so with respect I say:

1. The 700 rates. Look at Horizon and the old CMR rates. very reasonable and allows the company to still make a profit.

2. The 200 rates are for a dying airplane. (Sorry for you, but the ATR too. Maybe a turbo prop if oil stays high, but who flies it I don't know.)

3. Five hours after the footprint on IROP and two hour after on a "normal day". That is no good. What is great about Section 13...sorry buger.

Joe there are many more, but I just got home from a 3 day and have to go back on Sunday so I am very tired. Fly safe out there ASA guys and gals.

 

[www.]

It will pass in the 60-70% range, but 95% of our pilots will say they voted it down.

I say about 60% for and you can thank PD for the scheduling section that you will have to live with for 3+ year. Good luck, it's not pretty.

 

[www.]

So you'll accept anything because it's new and endorsed by the MEC?
I think the CNC made a deal that required them to.

From what I have seen, the MEC way overreached in trying to "capture" all the "new" concepts. CNC didn't do a great job of communicating specific language.

They got schooled because the company allowed the new concepts but cleaned up any vague language in those and others in their favor.

This TA gives the company so much more flexibility in exercising their incompetence than before. You are correct. Last contract JUMPED forward locking up the flexibity and now we gave it right back.

This TA is in no way worth five years of negotiating. Not in any way. Can I have my dues back now? Correct and No![/quote]


.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe...you have had many common sense post so with respect I say:

1. The 700 rates. Look at Horizon and the old CMR rates. very reasonable and allows the company to still make a profit.

2. The 200 rates are for a dying airplane. (Sorry for you, but the ATR too. Maybe a turbo prop if oil stays high, but who flies it I don't know.)

3. Five hours after the footprint on IROP and two hour after on a "normal day". That is no good. What is great about Section 13...sorry buger.

Joe there are many more, but I just got home from a 3 day and have to go back on Sunday so I am very tired. Fly safe out there ASA guys and gals.

101040,

I understand your points..... and they are valid....

1. The 700 rates are a huge disappointment to me.... I believe they could have been higher if we had gone in right away 5 years ago and taken the better parts of the CMR deal... ie 700 rates, and Bfund...However that may have resulted in us being dragged into BK with CMR....

In those 5 years however, the competitive landscape has changed in the DCI "portfolio".... We are now competing with CMR, PCL, and Mesa for 700-900 flying all of which have lower rates than we currently have.... The PCL rates are going to arbitration, but I bet they come in much lower than our current rates...

2. I would gladly give back some of the ATR payraise for better scope.... but I don't think ALPA has the will to fight for a single list...... The 200 captains got a large raise because it was the only seat at ASA that was below industry average.... actually it was at the bottom... therefor it gets the biggest raise....

3. I agree that we conceded many things..... in addition to what you posted, the line check pilots took concessions and the FO rates aren't 60% of captains rates.... We also did not get the "100% retro" that many were screaming for....We gave up many things, but that is what you do when you "negotiate".... You don't get everything you want.... We were never going to get a release even though some said we were.....

I encourage those of you who aren't happy to vote no..... however if this is voted down, it will probably be 12 months or so before you get something else to vote on and it will be very similar..... maybe even worse..... I predict it will pass about 65%-35%....

I am not at all happy about the scope section.... I don't think it provides much protection.... but I am voting yes.... It is time to move forward and focus on the future...... That includes holding ALPA's feet to the fire in putting a stop to this silly "bidding war" within a brand....

We can get Horizon rates once we put a stop to the bidding war..... We have been trying to put the cart before the horse, and that just doesn't work....

 

[bluefly72]

101040,

I understand your points..... and they are valid....

1. The 700 rates are a huge disappointment to me.... I believe they could have been higher if we had gone in right away 5 years ago and taken the better parts of the CMR deal... ie 700 rates, and Bfund...However that may have resulted in us being dragged into BK with CMR....

In those 5 years however, the competitive landscape has changed in the DCI "portfolio".... We are now competing with CMR, PCL, and Mesa for 700-900 flying all of which have lower rates than we currently have.... The PCL rates are going to arbitration, but I bet they come in much lower than our current rates...

2. I would gladly give back some of the ATR payraise for better scope.... but I don't think ALPA has the will to fight for a single list...... The 200 captains got a large raise because it was the only seat at ASA that was below industry average.... actually it was at the bottom... therefor it gets the biggest raise....

3. I agree that we conceded many things..... in addition to what you posted, the line check pilots took concessions and the FO rates aren't 60% of captains rates.... We also did not get the "100% retro" that many were screaming for....We gave up many things, but that is what you do when you "negotiate".... You don't get everything you want.... We were never going to get a release even though some said we were.....

I encourage those of you who aren't happy to vote no..... however if this is voted down, it will probably be 12 months or so before you get something else to vote on and it will be very similar..... maybe even worse..... I predict it will pass about 65%-35%....

I am not at all happy about the scope section.... I don't think it provides much protection.... but I am voting yes.... It is time to move forward and focus on the future...... That includes holding ALPA's feet to the fire in putting a stop to this silly "bidding war" within a brand....

We can get Horizon rates once we put a stop to the bidding war..... We have been trying to put the cart before the horse, and that just doesn't work....

Unless I'm missing something here, FO rates ARE 60% of the Captain rates...

 

[sweptback]

Unless I'm missing something here, FO rates ARE 60% of the Captain rates...

They most definitely are, with the exception of first year pay (which is not 60% in current book either).

There aren't many regional airlines left with FO rates pegged at 60% at Captain rates... but ASA is one of them.