SLI is out, it looks good for both sides

[OldManPilot]

As I continue to read all the responses to the SLI I think many on here are not seeing the forest for the trees. Let's remember the positives. For us AT pilots.
1. No more horrible AT management.
2. We get to be part of an incredible CBA.
3. Better pay and benefits.

For our SWA brothers:
1. Growth
2. Turn key international development.
3. Entry into the ATL Market and DCA market.

These are only a small few gains on each side. As it has been said, "A good SLI is when everyone is upset". After all is said and done, we will all work together and write a new chapter for Southwest Airlines. Let's make that a chapter that we can look back at years from now and be proud of. What has made both companies great is the passion both employee groups have for their companies. Let's put our differences aside and work together to make this work group the best in the world. Lets not drag ourselves into petty ego driven hatred. In the years to come we ALL will be winners.

My best to all.

 

[wood pecker]

If either side votes it down, does anyone get the chance to add incentives before it goes to an arbitrator?

For ex if it is the SW fo's that are not happy can there be a sign on bonus added to make things right for them?

 

[SkiFishFly]

Old Man Pilot,
Don't forget Punta Cana overnites...

 

[GuppyWN]

As I continue to read all the responses to the SLI I think many on here are not seeing the forest for the trees. Let's remember the positives. For us AT pilots.
1. No more horrible AT management.
2. We get to be part of an incredible CBA.
3. Better pay and benefits.

For our SWA brothers:
1. Growth
2. Turn key international development.
3. Entry into the ATL Market and DCA market.

These are only a small few gains on each side. As it has been said, "A good SLI is when everyone is upset". After all is said and done, we will all work together and write a new chapter for Southwest Airlines. Let's make that a chapter that we can look back at years from now and be proud of. What has made both companies great is the passion both employee groups have for their companies. Let's put our differences aside and work together to make this work group the best in the world. Lets not drag ourselves into petty ego driven hatred. In the years to come we ALL will be winners.

My best to all.

I guess the initial "shock" has passed? You've been very consistent the past 10 months. I was surprised to see your initial reaction to the deal.

I'm still groaning.

Gup

 

[OldManPilot]

Gup,

I made the mistake of speaking before thinking. (seems to rule these forums). Now that I had time to think and be rational in my thought process I am back to normal.
I realized that after all is said and done being able to enjoy going to work and being with the best airline in the world also has value. Yes, I will be stapled, but I will enjoy my career and not dread coming to work wondering what will happen next. And too me personally, it's worth it.

 

[On Your Six]

As I continue to read all the responses to the SLI I think many on here are not seeing the forest for the trees. Let's remember the positives. For us AT pilots.
1. No more horrible AT management.
2. We get to be part of an incredible CBA.
3. Better pay and benefits.

For our SWA brothers:
1. Growth
2. Turn key international development.
3. Entry into the ATL Market and DCA market.

These are only a small few gains on each side. As it has been said, "A good SLI is when everyone is upset". After all is said and done, we will all work together and write a new chapter for Southwest Airlines. Let's make that a chapter that we can look back at years from now and be proud of. What has made both companies great is the passion both employee groups have for their companies. Let's put our differences aside and work together to make this work group the best in the world. Lets not drag ourselves into petty ego driven hatred. In the years to come we ALL will be winners.

My best to all.

It sounds like you are giving up old man. I know you want stability, but there are some major inequities it seems in this agreement. You don't have to thank Swapa for this merger, only GK. SWAPA didn't do anything for you, and they don't pay your paycheck. You are also right about growth for the SWA pilots, thanks exclusively to YOU. They will thank you for it, I'm sure.

And "turn key International development?" Really? You go to some Caribbean and Mexican markets. Next stop, Canada.



OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Gup,

I made the mistake of speaking before thinking. (seems to rule these forums). Now that I had time to think and be rational in my thought process I am back to normal.
I realized that after all is said and done being able to enjoy going to work and being with the best airline in the world also has value. Yes, I will be stapled, but I will enjoy my career and not dread coming to work wondering what will happen next. And too me personally, it's worth it.

What a complete meltdown.


OYS

 

[Empennage]

It sounds like you are giving up old man. I know you want stability, but there are some major inequities it seems in this agreement. You don't have to thank Swapa for this merger, only GK. SWAPA didn't do anything for you, and they don't pay your paycheck. You are also right about growth for the SWA pilots, thanks exclusively to YOU. They will thank you for it, I'm sure.

And "turn key International development?" Really? You go to some Caribbean and Mexican markets. Next stop, Canada.



OYS

OYS you should run for public office. Please let me know what ballot you end up on.

 

[slaquer5]

OYS you should run for public office. Please let me know what ballot you end up on.

OYS will not admit her true gender. How in the world could you tell what party.

 

[SkiFishFly]

Gup,
I realized that after all is said and done being able to enjoy going to work and being with the best airline in the world also has value. Yes, I will be stapled, but I will enjoy my career and not dread coming to work wondering what will happen next. And too me personally, it's worth it.

My thoughts as well!

 

[Ty Webb]

You must sign ze papers, Old Man.

 

[On Your Six]

OYS will not admit her true gender. How in the world could you tell what party.

Sounds like you like gender-less humans types? Or, you like to go to bed with ferns or lilacs? Really? They will probably listen to your SLI banter and actually agree with your logic. Congrats on finding your soulmate, a thing called Chaz. When is the wedding?


OYS

 

[Fubijaakr]

An MEC should never send something out unless it's with a yes recommendation.

Exactly. If they don't endorse it, why did they accept it in the first place?

 

[GuppyWN]

OYS,

I can't see your posts because you're a moron but even AirTran is happy with the deal or their NC wouldn't have signed off on it. Both pilot groups will vote it in and in about 42 days we're going to be family. That means I'll have their backs.

Time to let it go - and save your energy for the Canyon Blue Crush coming to ATL.

Gup

 

[OldManPilot]

OYS,

I can't see your posts because you're a moron but even AirTran is happy with the deal or their NC wouldn't have signed off on it. Both pilot groups will vote it in and in about 42 days we're going to be family. That means I'll have their backs.

Time to let it go - and save your energy for the Canyon Blue Crush coming to ATL.

Gup

+1. I agree

 

[jonjuan]

Canyon Blue Crush coming to ATL.

Ironically, that's what they call 36 planes in line waiting to take off. :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash:

 

[737tanker]

Serious question and NOT flamebait...but what would happen if SWA sell's the 717's to DAL? Is there furlough protection written in for the AT guys? and for those who say furlough protection isn't worth the paper written on it, it saved MY job in the last recession.

If there is a furlough all of the post Sept 27th hires will be furloughed first, in reverse DOH order. After that it will be 1 pre-Sept 27th SWA pilot for every 1 pre-Sept 27th AirTran pilot, no matter where the pre-Sept 27th SWA pilots fall on the new seniority list.

If either side votes it down, does anyone get the chance to add incentives before it goes to an arbitrator?

From what the SWAPA Execs and the SWAPA NC Chairman are saying is if either side turns this down it will go straight to arbitration.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

From what the SWAPA Execs and the SWAPA NC Chairman are saying is if either side turns this down it will go straight to arbitration.

Believe this was because of the process agreement's timeline! Time will be up!
KBB

 

[waveflyer]

I think 73 tanker almost has it. Furloughs would happen in reverse seniority order until the date of corporate closing, then all AT pilots hired between snapshot and DOCC, and then all swa pilots hired between the snapshot and DOCC, then 1:1 AT/SWA.

That said I think that GK would not make a strategic move that guarantees furloughs once integrated. Before integration has been the subject of much speculation.

 

[Lear70]

I think 73 tanker almost has it. Furloughs would happen in reverse seniority order until the date of corporate closing, then all AT pilots hired between snapshot and DOCC, and then all swa pilots hired between the snapshot and DOCC, then 1:1 AT/SWA.

Correct.

That said I think that GK would not make a strategic move that guarantees furloughs once integrated. Before integration has been the subject of much speculation.

I don't see furloughs barring some type of 9/11 or oil $200+/brl in the next 2-3 years. Gary wants to enter a growth mode, not combine and furlough. An old airline saying: "If you aren't growing, you're dying". You have to have new income to offset increasing costs in terms of longer longevity employees.

 

[Cometman]

From what the SWAPA Execs and the SWAPA NC Chairman are saying is if either side turns this down it will go straight to arbitration.[/QUOTE]

True, but I believe they can still work out a settlement during arbitration and settle before it is finished. Just like when you take something to trial the parties can settle before it actually finishes even though the trial began.

 

[stalker]

Oh you poor people with the growth blinders on. There will be NO growth. Get used to it. GK just bought his next 10 years worth of growth. Get real comfortable with where you are because that is where you are going to be 10 years from now.

 

[madjack]

But there will be retirements...

 

[AA717driver]

But there will be retirements...

NEVER count on moving up due to retirements.

TC

 

[iflyhigh72]

So a 4 yr Capt at AirTran makes 250k a year as a SW Capt and I and every other FO at SW hang on for a potential upgrade sometime down the road making no where near that. What if another 9/11 happens?? Growth is a solution based on today's scenarios and never guaranteed and rarely holds true They continue getting paid and guys like me linger for another x amount of years in the right seat? While there is an AirTran Capt junior to a SWA FO , The FO should get equivalent Capt pay for any trip They fly, not just when The SWA FO pairs up with a junior Tranny Capt on a bs weekend trip that they wouldn't ideally fly. The premium to fly with the tranny Capt is 1.25 on the off chance you get it. So instead of elitt and trip trade give away, we have to go scouring the board for an AI Capt to make some sort of premium. BS I say. NO is my vote.

 

[Old Crow]

It would be much better to take down the fence, pay protect the swa fo's senior to airtran capts. and fairly integrate the lists based on total pilots and total retirements of the current lists. Everyone wins the definition of fair and equitable. Both of these companies are profitable and both pilot groups have contributed to their success equally. All the "fixes" are just lipstick on a pig and greed.

I think we're off to arbitration.

 

[ILUVURBANMYERS]

I think so as well Old Crow. Lots of very disappointed (and I might add level headed)SWA F/Os out on the line the last 3 days. ALL and I mean ALL of my Captain buds are saying they are voting WITH AND FOR what's best for our F/O's. I know there are some real solid Dudes over there but I say very little chance of it passing here.

 

[dicko]

So a 4 yr Capt at AirTran makes 250k a year as a SW Capt and I and every other FO at SW hang on for a potential upgrade sometime down the road making no where near that. What if another 9/11 happens?? Growth is a solution based on today's scenarios and never guaranteed and rarely holds true They continue getting paid and guys like me linger for another x amount of years in the right seat? While there is an AirTran Capt junior to a SWA FO , The FO should get equivalent Capt pay for any trip They fly, not just when The SWA FO pairs up with a junior Tranny Capt on a bs weekend trip that they wouldn't ideally fly. The premium to fly with the tranny Capt is 1.25 on the off chance you get it. So instead of elitt and trip trade give away, we have to go scouring the board for an AI Capt to make some sort of premium. BS I say. NO is my vote.

There are no 4 year "Tranny CA's". The junior "Tranny CA" is a 7 year CA.
I saw him again just a few days ago, he had a big smile on his face. He must be in LUV ....

It is nice that you'll make a special effort to fly with us though

 

[Fly4$]

So a 4 yr Capt at AirTran makes 250k a year as a SW Capt and I and every other FO at SW hang on for a potential upgrade sometime down the road making no where near that. What if another 9/11 happens?? Growth is a solution based on today's scenarios and never guaranteed and rarely holds true They continue getting paid and guys like me linger for another x amount of years in the right seat? While there is an AirTran Capt junior to a SWA FO , The FO should get equivalent Capt pay for any trip They fly, not just when The SWA FO pairs up with a junior Tranny Capt on a bs weekend trip that they wouldn't ideally fly. The premium to fly with the tranny Capt is 1.25 on the off chance you get it. So instead of elitt and trip trade give away, we have to go scouring the board for an AI Capt to make some sort of premium. BS I say. NO is my vote.

There may be some AT captains that went ahead of you (to keep things in perspective, the number is rather small). But you are gaining quite (wow somebody who spells "quite" correctly) some RELATIVE seniority because of all the AT FO's being stapled below you. I think you may just want to consider leaving your ego at the door, in the interest of the greater good. Hope we can all just get along after this.

 

[carpediem]

Im with old crow! Pay protect SWA fo for captain pay and integrate fairly. Junior SWA fo's do not deserve 4 year bump ahead of any AAI guy! Taking something that doesnt belong to them is wrong! As per the proposal it will take 10 years of attrition to get back to DOH. Off to arbitration we go.