SkyWest - USA Today

[Goose Egg]

In reference to the orignial USA Today ad, I have to say it wasn't really that convincing. It didn't really provide any arguments, it just said "You should vote in ALPA. Do the right thing." Why should I vote in ALPA? Why is that the right thing? Nobody has explained that yet. Don't get me wrong here, there are some definite reasons to have representation, and ALPA may indeed be the union for SkyWest, but "because I and 79,999 other pilots said so" isn't really a good reason, at least not to me. 80,000 pilots might not be wrong, but they don't work here, and they can only speak from experience with their respective companies.

As far as this so-called "brotherhood" thing goes, I have a hard time believing it. ALPA is a business that negotiates contracts. Nothing more. The SkyWest pilot group may require the services of said business, but don't patronize me by implying there's more to the union/member relationship than the exchange of funds for services rendered.

Oh well, /rant

-Goose

 

[siucavflight]

They do more then negotiate contracts, they also protect you from getting fired. If you run into medical problems they help you keep your certificate, if you get violated from the FAA they have lawyers that will fight for you. You can call in sick or fatigued with no fear, there are lots of other things that they do.

 

[BoilerUP]

I don't care. I just want to get my time and get out. A union can't help me.

That sounds an awful lot like your mind has been made up...but I'll try to give you some reasons I think you and your coworkers should vote in ALPA, in no particular order:

1. There are protections inherent in collective bargaining. What you currently have cannot be taken away during a drive or negotiations...it can only be sold during negotiations. This is a common misconception I've read many many times on this board. Those concessionary agreements folks point to? Negotiated and ratified by each ALPA airline. Imagine what management would have imposed without the pilots being represented!

2. Pattern Bargaining. Remember the phrase "a raising tide raises all ships"? Many pilot contracts at the regionals are coming due; ASA is simply the first in this cycle. Mesa, RAH, Pinnacle are also up and AWAC might be right there in the next few months. With collective bargaining your pilot group would be empowered to FIGHT to get better than what you have now, compared to relying on management's benevolence for improvements which is what Skywest pilots do now. With pattern bargaining, you build on existing CBAs, and when you get one, those in negotiations build upon yours. That's what ACA/CMR/ARW did in 2001.

3. Aeromedical is an excellent resource, as is Legal. Aeromedical has saved many careers and helped me with a reporting issue this past winter.

4. Ability to purchase loss-of-license and life insurance at reasonable rates.

5. Political pull. Worried about cabotage? Worried about Congress making a P-56 violation a felony? Worried about pension reform? If not, you should be...

6. ASAP and System Board. Hope you never need either but be glad that both exist; they're for your benefit.

7. UNITY. Regional pilots, by and large, lack the spine to fight for what they deserve. This is amplified by folks that think they have to subsidize their company's growth or financial success with their paycheck or quality of life...and that is simply not true. ALPA provides resources and $$$ to help those willing to fight

ALPA is not a silver bullet. It cannot waive a magic wand delete the Railway Labor Act or appoint a labor-friendly NLMB. It is just a voice, a representational body made up of all pilots who pay dues and their elected VOLUNTEER representatives. It benefits all pilots (ALPA, IBT, SWAPA, IPA, etc) to have Skywest as part of that voice.

 

[Gobi Gred]

Goose, Please don't buy into that "we're different and we're better" crap management spews out. SkyWest is no different than any other airline out there. They just have a very smart management team and a very naive pilot group.

 

[PCL_128]

My second thought was where's FPA and NPA?

Not sure where FAPA was. I do know that they have a services agreement with ALPA, though. ALPA provided plenty of assistance for their last round of negotiations.

As for the NPA, we currently have no official President since we recalled our Pres and VP. The Sec-Treasurer is now acting as President, but he's basically just overseeing the elections. He's said that he doesn't want to take much action with so many seats on the board up for election right now.

 

[atrdriver]

I have an answer, it wont effect it at all. Remember who does the hiring at these jobs. Its not unionized line pilots thats for sure. Or maybe you will have to show your APLA card just to get into the interview.

Which shows how much you know about hiring at the majors. I'm not saying that you would be denied a job because you didn't vote in a union. But EVERY major has at least 1 pilot on the interview board, many have more than 1. And all it takes in 1 nay vote from a panel member and you are sent packing. You saying that the pilots aren't going to have a say in hiring is just assinine.

 

[atrdriver]

I'll be the guy that sets you up to look good day in and day out, so you can go to management and thump your chest and tell them how valuable YOU are to the company and how much more money YOU need to make. We in dispatch support the pilots, its good to see you guy could care less about us. I can do my job without you, its you who can't do your job without me.

So lets see. If there are no pilots you think you will have a job? If there are no dispatchers the pilots just have to do a little more work. I have filed my own flight plans, and done all my preflight planning. Most pilots have. If you really think that we can't do our jobs without you then you are really a tool. More than you first appeared.

 

[Shaheen]

hello Skywest guys.....

ALPA and Prater do not give one crapola about you. They want your 2% so they can get back to throwing meetings in Miami at the Yatch Club on your dime.

I opened the paper today at the hotel and saw the ad, while reading the ALPA propaganda dribble all that was going thru my head was that they ALPA and scraping rock bottom - ALPA has never supported the little guy - read "commuter pilot" even if you fly a large jet at your commuter airline.

in short - don't fall for it.

Well said!

Don't fall for a UNION. UNIONS have not done good for this country or its industry.

Look at our Automobile Industry. Going down the tube. Yep, quality is the reason, but take time and read how Unions have affected production.

It's almost laughable that ALPA advertised 'DRIVE UNION' on page 31 of October 07 issue of Airline Pilot. Laughable, laughable, laughable!

Almost all UNION believers tend to forget that back in the old ages ALPA or other unions made 'some' impact, but they completely forget that now we have something that's called: Department of Labor.

Unions are not required any more. But, it’s hard to make someone believe otherwise…someone who just believes in ALPA or other unions even though that might be their first experience with a union.

It’s just like asking Democrats to appreciate good Republicans values or Republicans to appreciate good Democrat values: Everyone believes their party is better simply because they are ‘member’ of that party (grandfather was a member, father was a member, so I want to be a member…even though I have no clue if UNIONS really are good for me or my company). Even when hardcore evidence is provided against some issue supported by a particular party/candidate, the members would simply vote for that party/candidate because they are member of that party and not what’s right or wrong. Example: Idaho Republicans who want to boycott MSP because of Senator Craig’s arrest for lewd behavior; they complete overlook the fact that Senator pleaded guilty to lewd behavior!

Don't waste your 2%.

Skywest or ANY airline would do JUST well without a - useless - union!

What I find funny is how almost every airline union in this country agreed with what the management asked them to agree to. So, what's the use of the UNION?

Huh!

Time has come to start the process to get rid of UNIONS, not embrace them!

Save your 2%!

 

[Goose Egg]

That sounds an awful lot like your mind has been made up...but I'll try to give you some reasons I think you and your coworkers should vote in ALPA, in no particular order..

No, I actually appreciate your post--one of the few that is listing logical facts.

And I hate to say this, but my mind is a lot less "made up" then it was a couple days ago. Part of me is actually thinking of voting for... Or at the very least not freaking out if it passes. I guess it always helps to not freak. I have until November to decide, so why not get all the facts, no matter how well hidden they are. Gosh, I always do that... come charging into a discussion with both barrels blazin,' only to find out that I really don't have all the facts. Maybe I'll have it figured out by the next controversy.

-Goose

PS Already have ASAP, and hope I never need it. (But probably will.)

 

[COOPERVANE]

I can do my job without you, its you who can't do your job without me.

I have been on this board for 5 years. I have now officially seen the DUMBEST post I've EVER seen!

One reason you could do your job without US, is because without US, you would have nothing to do.

I respect your job and do believe that your job is important as well as ours. You obviously don't respect ours. I have sat here and read your posts for the last day and kept quiet.

You state that having a dispatch license doesn't necessarily qualify a person to be an effective dispatcher.....Agreed. Similarly, being a dispatcher (you) gives you NO RIGHT to question our decision making when it comes to protecting our lives and our certificates!!

You berate a pilot for "whining" about a deferred APU, yet you don't even know what it is like to operate without one, much less BE RESPONSIBLE for consequences of it's deferral on the pax & crew.

You threaten to give us short overnights, and swap us un-necessarily or into APU deferred AC, with you're self important "child with a magnifying glass-in-the-sun" attitude. Even though at my company we just laugh at you and wait for another aircraft in a leather chair, while you guys try and bully a new captain into taking a broken A/C.

"Oh, I never wanted to be a pilot" you say.....Yeah, sounds like it. With such low standards right now I have to ask. You can't make it in this climate? Wow, that's just sad.

Congratulations on being the biggest Douchbag on FI

 

[Oakum_Boy]

WTF, are you named after a Pakistani mountain eagle or something?

 

[COOPERVANE]

As far as the union drive goes Goose, I too have grown tired of some of the pro-union drivel I have seen over the past year.

I grow tired of the veiled threats, do it or u'll be sorry, Jerry will whipsaw you, shrink you, transfer airplanes, staple you to the bottom of ASA list, never get a job at an ALPA carrier, etc.. I don't like those tactics.

However......

Are you REALLY worried about losing 2% of your pay? REALLY? I don't even notice it.

Just ask yourself this. Do I have more to gain or more to lose with ALPA? Do I have more to gain without ALPA? HOW will voting in ALPA HURT you?

I am really glad I can refuse an aircraft without fear of ANY reprisal. I am glad I can call in sick without ANY reprisals. I am glad that my job is protected even if I make a stupid mistake. I am glad I have a representative to speak for me in dozens of areas.

Will that deductable 2% really hurt you that much?

Just get all the fact and make the best descision for YOU. Even if it's no....just vote.

Coop

 

[Oakum_Boy]

2%. Nothing. Your girlfriend's tampons will cost you more.

 

[ROSWELL41]

What I love at SkyWest is how many former Mesa/TSA pilots (with a whopping 3-6 mos on property) claim to be experts on why we don't need ALPA. Don't try and tell me you came here because its a non union workplace!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Well,
You might note I referred to UAL,DAL, F9 dispatchers relaying "HOWGOEZIT" messages. I was frankly shocked to see WX, TURB pireps, and other pertinent info ACARSed to the flightdeck. xPoop pisses me off that he can come on this board and spew his particular venom without reply. I just think if you are gonna run with the pack you better keep pace, and he hasn't. He deals in untruths and half lies that his gamma ray(or whatever he is downwind from) pea sized brain picks up from the company website. If he wants to be a "real dispatcher" then he can start relaying something other than screwscheduling notices. His world is 300 miles or so from civilization. When I want a pimply faced 20 year old kids opinion about my career, I will turn to the right and ask my F/O to chime in. xPoop if you google collective bargaining and read anything except the propaganda from the f&h website you might be more evenly educated. But you won't, you will just read the anti-union drivel posted on the company website and come back here and show just how shallow your education is. I never meant to disparage "real dispatchers" just xPoop and his ilk.
PBR

 

[PBRstreetgang]

What I love at SkyWest is how many former Mesa/TSA pilots (with a whopping 3-6 mos on property) claim to be experts on why we don't need ALPA. Don't try and tell me you came here because its a non union workplace!

They are the same ones who when I ask, how many local meetings did you go to? Say wellllll, none! WTF do you think the MEC is going to do if you don't show any interest in your career. I have also flown with 2-3 year Mesa F/O's who are a pleasure to fly with, competent, and squared away. They also say if ALPA weren't there the cornholing would have been worse that it was. Those 2-3 month clueless wonders were the very same pilots who couldn't or wouldnt have been hired as little as 3-4 years ago. Because they are clueless, and SKYW is desperate for warm bodies, and they almost qualify.
PBR

 

[Ineedabrew]

Where did XPOO go? Hope he is o.k.

Alpa is comming, Alpa is comming run for hills XPOO.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

Look at it this way. I don't like paying car, home, medical and life insurance. But I do because it is a neccessary evil. Do insurance companies always pay or perform? The answer is NO. But when all factors are legitimate and honest, and premiums are paid, they do perform. Consider ALPA to be career insurance that you may hate to pay but you do because you will be grateful that day you need them most. The pilot group at Skywest has long outgrown SAPA and is in need of representation.

Yogi

 

[PCL_128]

When I want a pimply faced 20 year old kids opinion about my career, I will turn to the right and ask my F/O to chime in.

Now that's funny. :beer:

 

[BoilerUP]

What I love at SkyWest is how many former Mesa/TSA pilots (with a whopping 3-6 mos on property) claim to be experts on why we don't need ALPA. Don't try and tell me you came here because its a non union workplace!

Did you get my PM on that other website?

"No need to acknowledge..."

:beer:

 

[Stifler's Mom]

XPOO,

You need to take a serious break from FI. You have about 20 posts on about 5 different threads, and all of them are about you rambling on and on about this whole ALPA thing and SKW. You're going to label yourself as the next HelloNewman of FI if you're not careful.

You come across as somebody who's going to end up in a clock tower with a high caliber rifle.

Holy cow, you're coming unglued.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

You guys are hilarious. Sorry, never went to flight school, never wanted to be a pilot. High school aptitude tests showed that I lacked the required god-complex and self-righteousness in order to sit behind a mic and metal stick all day with another person in a cramped space bitching about no APU or an autopilot deferred, while also having to beg my dispatcher for another 5 minutes of fuel on my way to LAN where the weather is P6SM SKC. Also, my back would never be able to put up with a different hotel bed every night. I'm also pretty sure my skin couldn't withstand the amount of radiation a pilot gets subjected to flying around all day. Let alone, I'm definately sure my heart couldn't withstand the amount of stress envolved in worrying about the next management carrot hanging over my head as if the amount of money the company pays me is the lone deciding factor on if the airline is going to turn a profit or not. I've just never been able to put myself ahead of anyone else they way you guys can. That's why I dispatch, this way I can help 20-30 of you pilots out at the same time. This way I can get you to your overnight on time, so you'll have more time to hit on that hot flight attendant while your away from teh wifey on a 4-day. You'll be well-rested and ready to go the next day. I'd much rather just sit back and be the Teller to your Penn. I'll be the guy that sets you up to look good day in and day out, so you can go to management and thump your chest and tell them how valuable YOU are to the company and how much more money YOU need to make. We in dispatch support the pilots, its good to see you guy could care less about us. I can do my job without you, its you who can't do your job without me.

I hate to burst your bubble...but I flew here for well over a decade without having a single dispatch release, and somehow did just fine without ya!!!!

 

[COOPERVANE]

Where did XPOO go? Hope he is o.k.

Only surfs at work in between rolling his eyes when those whiny pilots ask for bug washes.

MEL not listed on the release? Whiny pilots

Alternate required but not listed? Whiny pilots

pushing 14 hours? Wow, whiny pilots

 

[Andy Neill]

Look at it this way. I don't like paying car, home, medical and life insurance. But I do because it is a neccessary evil. Do insurance companies always pay or perform? The answer is NO. But when all factors are legitimate and honest, and premiums are paid, they do perform. Consider ALPA to be career insurance that you may hate to pay but you do because you will be grateful that day you need them most. The pilot group at Skywest has long outgrown SAPA and is in need of representation.

Yogi

Just from the aspect of insurance, the rule I have followed in life is to self-insure whenever possible. Insurance comapnies are still in business because they take in more money than they pay out. I carry liability insurance but I don't carry comprehensive or collission because I can cover those costs.

If you want to insure your profession (or income at least) develop you financial position to where you don't rely on a job. Worked for me.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Or get a military retirement, but that doesn't help the 23 year old new hire though!
PBR

 

[XPOO]

Where did XPOO go? Hope he is o.k.

Alpa is comming, Alpa is comming run for hills XPOO.

I'm here. Just hanging back reading. Not interjecting anymore. The vote will be turned down, for the third straight time. The defeat may not be 2 Nays to every 1 Yay, like last time. But it still won't pass. So, I'm done. You all have until Nov. 7th to figure out your excuses. Talk to you all then.

 

[Andy Neill]

Or get a military retirement, but that doesn't help the 23 year old new hire though!
PBR

So why isn't the 23-year old setting sights on the military. If enough leave the airlines, that would certainly increase the pressure on management to improve compensation packages.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So why isn't the 23-year old setting sights on the military. If enough leave the airlines, that would certainly increase the pressure on management to improve compensation packages.

Managment will lobby congress to change work visa's and residence permits to attract foreign workers before they will improve compensation...

 

[Mookie]

With all due respect, Andy...

Why not make the Airlines a place where we don't have to do a huge walkout to get a decent livable wages for first officers? Yours is a self serving argument that does nothing to stem the consistent degredation of my profession.

Mookie

 

[Andy Neill]

Not the way I see it Mook. It's nothing at the airlines in particular. I think that is good advice for anyone who would rather decide their own fate rather than relying on a job. How would this argument serve me?