SkyWest - USA Today

[XPOO]

Look, PBR has a hard-on for me or something and came in and flamed me first. He has for the longest time now. But now you all want to come in and bash, why? Because I'm not going to rollover and let you win? So in your mind being a pilot is far superior to being a dispatcher? Well, thats you. You can make fun of my profession all you want. See, you are all the first one's to attack my ability to dispatch. But I never attack any of your abilities as pilots. Whose being more childish? I have never and currently dont want to be a pilot. And seriously, if being a pilot means having to act like you guys, I'll never want to be a pilot. Having a dispatch license and actually dispatching are two different things. Possessing a license just entitles you to legally put your name on a release. When DEN shuts down for two days affecting every other hub, lets see you step in and pick up the pieces and get everyone and every plane where they need to be and start all over again. I'm sure you learned how to do that to obtain your license right?

 

[John Pennekamp]

XPOO,

Look, man, sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree, sometimes we share a laugh, and sometimes we make fun of each other. But in this argument you're wrong.

You're defending a bad position, and you have no evidence to back your argument up. You're arguing something that is frankly, none of your affair. We at ASA have union DXs. When y'all look into PAFCA, then we'll include you in this discussion.

And let's ALL stop with the pilot/DX superiority complex too. We both know we need each other.

 

[yellowfever]

Look, PBR has a hard-on for me or something and came in and flamed me first. He has for the longest time now. But now you all want to come in and bash, why? Because I'm not going to rollover and let you win? So in your mind being a pilot is far superior to being a dispatcher? Well, thats you. You can make fun of my profession all you want. See, you are all the first one's to attack my ability to dispatch. But I never attack any of your abilities as pilots. Whose being more childish? I have never and currently dont want to be a pilot. And seriously, if being a pilot means having to act like you guys, I'll never want to be a pilot. Having a dispatch license and actually dispatching are two different things. Possessing a license just entitles you to legally put your name on a release. When DEN shuts down for two days affecting every other hub, lets see you step in and pick up the pieces and get everyone and every plane where they need to be and start all over again. I'm sure you learned how to do that to obtain your license right?

I never dissed your profession. I just asked if you had ever experienced the lifestyle that regional pilots do. It's harder than some people think. Skywest has been making hundreds of millions of dollars at the same time SKWY pilots pay and quality of life are backsliding. They have made some of this money on the backs of labor who they deceived with broken promises. I could list all of the policy violations and broken promises, but I'm sure you could search for them here on FI. Anyone who takes pride in their profession should be ashamed of a company that only offered them a 1% / 0% pay raise.

 

[siucavflight]

XPOO, I think what rubs everyone the wrong way is that you are so worried about something that does not affect you. The ALPA vote is something that is up to your pilots, some of them want to do something to help themselves out. Why do you get so angry about it, why are you so anti-union? ALPA is a good thing and will be good for your pilots, why not leave it alone, it is not your fight.

 

[Redan]

Airline Pilots Must Take the Iniative to Look Out for Themselves

You guys are hilarious. Sorry, never went to flight school, never wanted to be a pilot. High school aptitude tests showed that I lacked the required god-complex and self-righteousness in order to sit behind a mic and metal stick all day with another person in a cramped space bitching about no APU or an autopilot deferred, while also having to beg my dispatcher for another 5 minutes of fuel on my way to LAN where the weather is P6SM SKC. Also, my back would never be able to put up with a different hotel bed every night. I'm also pretty sure my skin couldn't withstand the amount of radiation a pilot gets subjected to flying around all day. Let alone, I'm definately sure my heart couldn't withstand the amount of stress envolved in worrying about the next management carrot hanging over my head as if the amount of money the company pays me is the lone deciding factor on if the airline is going to turn a profit or not. I've just never been able to put myself ahead of anyone else they way you guys can. That's why I dispatch, this way I can help 20-30 of you pilots out at the same time. This way I can get you to your overnight on time, so you'll have more time to hit on that hot flight attendant while your away from teh wifey on a 4-day. You'll be well-rested and ready to go the next day. I'd much rather just sit back and be the Teller to your Penn. I'll be the guy that sets you up to look good day in and day out, so you can go to management and thump your chest and tell them how valuable YOU are to the company and how much more money YOU need to make. We in dispatch support the pilots, its good to see you guy could care less about us. I can do my job without you, its you who can't do your job without me.

These comments, as well as the majority I see from this person, reflect the perspective of many or most who have never taken a seat on a flight deck. Just as a soldier who has experienced combat finds it difficult or impossible to relate the experience to others, and will usually give up trying, an airline pilot typically will do the same thing. The experiences can truly only be conveyed to fellow pilots.

Just as this person will consider the pilots to be spoiled, whiny crybabys, others outside the profession, perhaps most including the majority of other airline employees and management, probably feel the same way. These outsiders are not the ones taking the $20+ million jet six miles into the stratosphere with 50 plus passengers. These folks are not the ones facing a CAT II night approach in a multiple MEL'd jet after five or six legs, nearing the end of a 14+ hour day. These folks do not have the career committment at stake that a pilot does. I'm sure we all are well aware that outsiders to the pilot profession do not have the perspective of the committment required to fly, even at the regional level.


As I sat in the jet the other morning at one o'clock proof-reading a dispatch with multiple discrepancies, and trying to explain to the dispatcher how arriving at our destination with its single 10,000 foot runway, at that hour, with minimum fuel, and a deferral requiring a runway of that length was maybe not a good idea. How according to forecasts on his dispatch, yes we did also need an alternate for weather. And unfortunately, how the performance figures he's provided present us with a terribly difficult weight and balance problem. And yes, the dispatch will need to reflect the correct crew names.
It was apparent the dispatcher was becoming impatient with me. He most likely did consider me to be a whiny crybaby. What I have learned at this point, is that I cannot expect others to share a pilot's perspective. Just as the combat soldier returning from the conflict can't expect others the share his perspective...not even other soldiers who've yet to experience combat. Others, including airline employees, simply don't appreciate ours, especially management. If an accident occurs, even if it results in the airline being shut down, you can rest asssured all in management will have generously provided for themselves and their families after any eventuality.

There simply are very few professions which hold so many potholes. A minor paperwork oversight can be career ending. Not even a neurosurgeon faces the level of scrutiny an airline pilot does...he doesn't have the PRIA, threat of a Fed showing up at any moment, or multiple checking events in a year. This, my friends, is why I have no intention of becoming employed at a carrier without representation BY PILOTS AND FOR PILOTS. Additionally, this is why I feel, as others have suggested, that this person calling himself XPOO or whatever, who claims to be a dispatcher would be respectfully advised and requested to discontinue trolling pilot threads and limit his numerous and voluminous comments to subjects pertaining to himself and his profession.

 

[XPOO]

Your right, it's not like we all work for the same company or anything. I'm sure all those people that deliver brand new Chryslers as they roll off the assembly line are sitting at home not worried about a thing right now. Not at all. Because it's not their fight, and it could never affect them, right?

 

[siucavflight]

XPOO, then tell me how will it affect you, why are you scared of a union at OO, I was seeing a girl who works for OO as a CS trainer, and she is also very scared of the pilots organizing, what do you see being the negative of having ALPA?

 

[PCL_128]

And let's ALL stop with the pilot/DX superiority complex too. We both know we need each other.

Exactly. There's no need to be attacking dispatchers in general. These guys have a job to do, and there's no reason for us to be attacking their profession.

If you want to attack XPOO, then there's plenty of ways to do it without attacking his entire profession. He's just a dumbass. That's all there is to it. He's completely ignorant about this subject. He's spouting all kinds of incorrect information. Attack him on that basis. Don't bring his entire profession under attack. There are good dispatchers out there that do a great job, and yes, there are even plenty of unionized dispatchers out there.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

XPOO,

Look, man, sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree, sometimes we share a laugh, and sometimes we make fun of each other. But in this argument you're wrong.

You're defending a bad position, and you have no evidence to back your argument up. You're arguing something that is frankly, none of your affair. We at ASA have union DXs. When y'all look into PAFCA, then we'll include you in this discussion.

And let's ALL stop with the pilot/DX superiority complex too. We both know we need each other.

I wonder if he is trying to keep his job just a bit easier. If ALPA or any union is on property, SKYW pilots will actually say "NO" to some flights that they do not feel comfortable with. Right now, if mngmt says fly it, most do just that.

Yogi

 

[XPOO]

XPOO,

Look, man, sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree, sometimes we share a laugh, and sometimes we make fun of each other. But in this argument you're wrong.

You're defending a bad position, and you have no evidence to back your argument up. You're arguing something that is frankly, none of your affair. We at ASA have union DXs. When y'all look into PAFCA, then we'll include you in this discussion.

And let's ALL stop with the pilot/DX superiority complex too. We both know we need each other.

John,

I respect you and your opinions, but I guess since I work for an un-unionized dispatch center we'll never see eye-to-eye. Sorry you feel you have to segregate us that way.

 

[Goose Egg]

In reference to the orignial USA Today ad, I have to say it wasn't really that convincing. It didn't really provide any arguments, it just said "You should vote in ALPA. Do the right thing." Why should I vote in ALPA? Why is that the right thing? Nobody has explained that yet. Don't get me wrong here, there are some definite reasons to have representation, and ALPA may indeed be the union for SkyWest, but "because I and 79,999 other pilots said so" isn't really a good reason, at least not to me. 80,000 pilots might not be wrong, but they don't work here, and they can only speak from experience with their respective companies.

As far as this so-called "brotherhood" thing goes, I have a hard time believing it. ALPA is a business that negotiates contracts. Nothing more. The SkyWest pilot group may require the services of said business, but don't patronize me by implying there's more to the union/member relationship than the exchange of funds for services rendered.

Oh well, /rant

-Goose

 

[siucavflight]

They do more then negotiate contracts, they also protect you from getting fired. If you run into medical problems they help you keep your certificate, if you get violated from the FAA they have lawyers that will fight for you. You can call in sick or fatigued with no fear, there are lots of other things that they do.

 

[BoilerUP]

I don't care. I just want to get my time and get out. A union can't help me.

That sounds an awful lot like your mind has been made up...but I'll try to give you some reasons I think you and your coworkers should vote in ALPA, in no particular order:

1. There are protections inherent in collective bargaining. What you currently have cannot be taken away during a drive or negotiations...it can only be sold during negotiations. This is a common misconception I've read many many times on this board. Those concessionary agreements folks point to? Negotiated and ratified by each ALPA airline. Imagine what management would have imposed without the pilots being represented!

2. Pattern Bargaining. Remember the phrase "a raising tide raises all ships"? Many pilot contracts at the regionals are coming due; ASA is simply the first in this cycle. Mesa, RAH, Pinnacle are also up and AWAC might be right there in the next few months. With collective bargaining your pilot group would be empowered to FIGHT to get better than what you have now, compared to relying on management's benevolence for improvements which is what Skywest pilots do now. With pattern bargaining, you build on existing CBAs, and when you get one, those in negotiations build upon yours. That's what ACA/CMR/ARW did in 2001.

3. Aeromedical is an excellent resource, as is Legal. Aeromedical has saved many careers and helped me with a reporting issue this past winter.

4. Ability to purchase loss-of-license and life insurance at reasonable rates.

5. Political pull. Worried about cabotage? Worried about Congress making a P-56 violation a felony? Worried about pension reform? If not, you should be...

6. ASAP and System Board. Hope you never need either but be glad that both exist; they're for your benefit.

7. UNITY. Regional pilots, by and large, lack the spine to fight for what they deserve. This is amplified by folks that think they have to subsidize their company's growth or financial success with their paycheck or quality of life...and that is simply not true. ALPA provides resources and $$$ to help those willing to fight

ALPA is not a silver bullet. It cannot waive a magic wand delete the Railway Labor Act or appoint a labor-friendly NLMB. It is just a voice, a representational body made up of all pilots who pay dues and their elected VOLUNTEER representatives. It benefits all pilots (ALPA, IBT, SWAPA, IPA, etc) to have Skywest as part of that voice.

 

[Gobi Gred]

Goose, Please don't buy into that "we're different and we're better" crap management spews out. SkyWest is no different than any other airline out there. They just have a very smart management team and a very naive pilot group.

 

[PCL_128]

My second thought was where's FPA and NPA?

Not sure where FAPA was. I do know that they have a services agreement with ALPA, though. ALPA provided plenty of assistance for their last round of negotiations.

As for the NPA, we currently have no official President since we recalled our Pres and VP. The Sec-Treasurer is now acting as President, but he's basically just overseeing the elections. He's said that he doesn't want to take much action with so many seats on the board up for election right now.

 

[atrdriver]

I have an answer, it wont effect it at all. Remember who does the hiring at these jobs. Its not unionized line pilots thats for sure. Or maybe you will have to show your APLA card just to get into the interview.

Which shows how much you know about hiring at the majors. I'm not saying that you would be denied a job because you didn't vote in a union. But EVERY major has at least 1 pilot on the interview board, many have more than 1. And all it takes in 1 nay vote from a panel member and you are sent packing. You saying that the pilots aren't going to have a say in hiring is just assinine.

 

[atrdriver]

I'll be the guy that sets you up to look good day in and day out, so you can go to management and thump your chest and tell them how valuable YOU are to the company and how much more money YOU need to make. We in dispatch support the pilots, its good to see you guy could care less about us. I can do my job without you, its you who can't do your job without me.

So lets see. If there are no pilots you think you will have a job? If there are no dispatchers the pilots just have to do a little more work. I have filed my own flight plans, and done all my preflight planning. Most pilots have. If you really think that we can't do our jobs without you then you are really a tool. More than you first appeared.

 

[Shaheen]

hello Skywest guys.....

ALPA and Prater do not give one crapola about you. They want your 2% so they can get back to throwing meetings in Miami at the Yatch Club on your dime.

I opened the paper today at the hotel and saw the ad, while reading the ALPA propaganda dribble all that was going thru my head was that they ALPA and scraping rock bottom - ALPA has never supported the little guy - read "commuter pilot" even if you fly a large jet at your commuter airline.

in short - don't fall for it.

Well said!

Don't fall for a UNION. UNIONS have not done good for this country or its industry.

Look at our Automobile Industry. Going down the tube. Yep, quality is the reason, but take time and read how Unions have affected production.

It's almost laughable that ALPA advertised 'DRIVE UNION' on page 31 of October 07 issue of Airline Pilot. Laughable, laughable, laughable!

Almost all UNION believers tend to forget that back in the old ages ALPA or other unions made 'some' impact, but they completely forget that now we have something that's called: Department of Labor.

Unions are not required any more. But, it’s hard to make someone believe otherwise…someone who just believes in ALPA or other unions even though that might be their first experience with a union.

It’s just like asking Democrats to appreciate good Republicans values or Republicans to appreciate good Democrat values: Everyone believes their party is better simply because they are ‘member’ of that party (grandfather was a member, father was a member, so I want to be a member…even though I have no clue if UNIONS really are good for me or my company). Even when hardcore evidence is provided against some issue supported by a particular party/candidate, the members would simply vote for that party/candidate because they are member of that party and not what’s right or wrong. Example: Idaho Republicans who want to boycott MSP because of Senator Craig’s arrest for lewd behavior; they complete overlook the fact that Senator pleaded guilty to lewd behavior!

Don't waste your 2%.

Skywest or ANY airline would do JUST well without a - useless - union!

What I find funny is how almost every airline union in this country agreed with what the management asked them to agree to. So, what's the use of the UNION?

Huh!

Time has come to start the process to get rid of UNIONS, not embrace them!

Save your 2%!

 

[Goose Egg]

That sounds an awful lot like your mind has been made up...but I'll try to give you some reasons I think you and your coworkers should vote in ALPA, in no particular order..

No, I actually appreciate your post--one of the few that is listing logical facts.

And I hate to say this, but my mind is a lot less "made up" then it was a couple days ago. Part of me is actually thinking of voting for... Or at the very least not freaking out if it passes. I guess it always helps to not freak. I have until November to decide, so why not get all the facts, no matter how well hidden they are. Gosh, I always do that... come charging into a discussion with both barrels blazin,' only to find out that I really don't have all the facts. Maybe I'll have it figured out by the next controversy.

-Goose

PS Already have ASAP, and hope I never need it. (But probably will.)

 

[COOPERVANE]

I can do my job without you, its you who can't do your job without me.

I have been on this board for 5 years. I have now officially seen the DUMBEST post I've EVER seen!

One reason you could do your job without US, is because without US, you would have nothing to do.

I respect your job and do believe that your job is important as well as ours. You obviously don't respect ours. I have sat here and read your posts for the last day and kept quiet.

You state that having a dispatch license doesn't necessarily qualify a person to be an effective dispatcher.....Agreed. Similarly, being a dispatcher (you) gives you NO RIGHT to question our decision making when it comes to protecting our lives and our certificates!!

You berate a pilot for "whining" about a deferred APU, yet you don't even know what it is like to operate without one, much less BE RESPONSIBLE for consequences of it's deferral on the pax & crew.

You threaten to give us short overnights, and swap us un-necessarily or into APU deferred AC, with you're self important "child with a magnifying glass-in-the-sun" attitude. Even though at my company we just laugh at you and wait for another aircraft in a leather chair, while you guys try and bully a new captain into taking a broken A/C.

"Oh, I never wanted to be a pilot" you say.....Yeah, sounds like it. With such low standards right now I have to ask. You can't make it in this climate? Wow, that's just sad.

Congratulations on being the biggest Douchbag on FI