Skywest TA??? Pay??

[General Lee]

I called a friend of mine in SLC who flies for Skywest and he said they were going to vote on a TA that would allow them to maybe buy some 70 seaters and 90 seaters (he said probably CRJ models--CR7 and CR9) and fly them at 50 seat rates for atleast 18 months---until they would "review" the situation. He also said there was a provision in there for possibly getting planes with 100-159 seats EVENTUALLY. Sounds like a big carrot to me. This industry and the pay is going down the tubes. Will it pass? Probably. Why? All of the FO's will vote YES because they want growth and more domiciles to choose from. The junior Captains will vote YES because they want to get a line and have more choices in domiciles etc. Only the senior Captains will vote NO because they have invested more time in Skywest and want the bigger bucks. My friend said this was what they "had to do" to fight for potential contracts and fight off Mesa and Chitaqua.
Just as our rates at Delta might go down a tad, so will the regional airline industry's.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Mexicankingair]

I think the plan now would just be to convert existing orders for CRJ 200's to the bigger ones, so that really wouldn't mean any more growth upgrades etc... than are already planned.

There is also a scale for 100 seat plus rates, but there is absolutely no guarantee that any would ever show up.

I think the carrot is simply not taking a pay cut and having the chance to wait 18 months and renegotiate when times (hopefully) are better.

 

[General Lee]

Mexicankingair,

I know these times are bad and a lot of regional guys are taking pay cuts (even though some of the Comair guys don't think they need to because they are "saving" Delta---yeah right). The problem here is that the Skywest pilots could open up a whole can of worms. They will fly up to 99 seat aircraft for 50 seat wages. That is like a Delta MD-88 Capt flying a 777 for the same wages. Double the capacity at the same wage. They didn't even try to give them a $1 an hour raise----nope. And then they will "review" it in 18 months-----what does that mean? Will times be better then? The management will try to show that it is not---saying Mesa and Chittauqua have grown huge and the only way to fight them is to pay less wages for larger aircraft. I believe this plan will succeed because the junior people want expansion and growth, and this is the only way right now---atleast in management's eyes.......If passed, this will be the new standard in the regionals----all of the other ones will point out that they have to do the same because Skywest is doing it, and they have to stay competitive. It's a rule in the management play book. The guys at Delta management have mastered it.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[embdrvr]

Question for General Lee

General Lee,
Can SkyWest or any other DCI carrier operate anything larger than 70 seats without the blessing of DALPA? Seems like you said something about that a month or two ago.

 

[Mexicankingair]

General Lee,

I agree, it sets a BAD precedent to have 50-99 pay scales in one group. I would have prefered to see at least two seperate scales in that range even if the pay were the same.

 

[Jeepman]

General Lee,


Yes this TA will probably pass, but think about it. SkyWest IS NOT setting the new low standard. We are ensuring our survival with the Chataqua's & Mesas of today. Besides it's a TA for 18 months so even if we were to order 70's the day after the TA passes it would take about a year to get them so then for six months we fly them at the same rate, get sick of it & if management pulls the BS about "Oh we need to be competetive against other lower cost carrier's all of us junior FO's and Captainsa will say BS and start a slow down" I think that would get their attention

 

[FlyingSig]

Pardon my ignorance... but if Skywest is non-union, why is there a "TA" to vote on? Can't management just impose new payscales on the pilots?

 

[Skank]

Your ingnorance is excused. Just being non-union doen't mean you don't have a contract. Guess what, our company (non-union) doesn't use the line "fly it and grieve it." They just honor the contract. Now isn't that refreshing?

 

[bladeusa]

the race to the bottom is on... sad

 

[Heavy Set]

Lower Pay Hurts Everyone!

The regional airline industry appears to be going down the tubes with regard to pay.... Mesa, Chit-Talk, and NOW SKYWEST will be lowering the bar for all regional pilots in the future. Yes, of course these are "trying" times and operating costs need to be reduced somewhat... However, we all know that this business, like most businesses, is cyclical to some degree and things will likely get better in a year or two (at least we hope!!!).

So, if Skywest pilots agree to fly 70-90 seaters for 50-seater pay, in return for a "promise" to review things in 18 months, then that sets a horrible precedent. There should be guaranteed increases in 18 months - something in writing at the very LEAST.... Why not base the rates on Horizon or ASA/Comair rates effective 18 months from now if Skywest is hurting or in need of some breathing room? Get it in writing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't give away the farm and lower the bar for the rest of the industry like Mesa and Chit-Talk have....

I like the carrot of maybe flying a +90 seat airplane (i.e., 717) in the future - yeah, and maybe I'll win the $300 million POWERBALL Lotto TWICE.... What a joke!

Vote that proposal down unless you want to become industry pariahs like Mesa!

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

Why does everyone seem to accept that mesa and other regional carriers who agree to fly for less than industry standard put undue pressure on the profession and the contracts of their competition, but when I point out the same effect at aai, luv, or jetblue, my comments are dismissed as the rantings of an "arrogant a-hole Delta pilot."

I fail to see the difference.

And yes, the race to the bottom is most certainly underway.

 

[General Lee]

EMBDRVR,

Skywest flies for more than one airline. Yes, they will not fly anything over 50 seats for the Delta side (ASA and Comair get the 57 alotted 70 seaters), but for United they can get anything United approves---and I think they want Skywest to get bigger planes.


Flyingsig,

My friend says they have an in-house union-----with a pilot appointed by managemnet (who gets paid 105 hours a month to fill the position) as their leader.

This will all get interesting soon.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[pa34driver]

From what I heard, they could either get the same rate, or take a pay cut from the 50 seaters. Knowing that they will have well over 100 50 seaters, I am sure this will be a better deal for the next 18 months.

 

[JBcrjca]

Why is everyone suddenly comparing SkyWest to Mesa and Chautauqua? This is just a TA guys, it hasn't been set in stone yet. I agree that flying 70-90 seaters for 50 seat rates is rediculous, and I plan on giving it a big thumbs down. As bladeusa says, the race to the bottom has started...but SkyWest didn't start the race. It started when the industry took a huge dump in late 2001.

Mesa took it in the shorts for one big reason...scoping out Freedom Air. I can kinda see how their hands were tied, because that J.O. is a sneaky ba$tard. I'm not sure exactly what's going on at CHQ, but I suspect it's more whipsawing them against Shuttle America/Republic. Didn't Air Wisconsin and ACA just vote on some pay concessions? Let's face it, pay is going to be reduced slightly whether we like it or not. The major partners like UAL are aggressively trying to cut costs, and will award feeder contracts to the lowest bidders. If Mesa and CHQ have the lower costs due to lower wages, then it's safe to assume that they'll get the feeder contracts. So where does that leave Air Wisc., ACA, SkyWest, etc.? Everyone is going to feel the pinch eventually.

There needs to be some extra pay for flying the extra seats. How much extra? I don't know, but you'd think that SkyWest could use CMR, ASA, Horizon, or Eagle 70/90 seat rates as a benchmark at least. The silliest part is that SkyWest doesn't even have any larger jets on order. Just dangling a carrot I guess. But one other thing to think about....I could be misinformed, but doesn't America West have one pay scale for the 737/A320/757? Doesn't UPS have one pay scale for the entire fleet from the 727 up to the 747? I haven't seen anyone mention that when bashing SkyWest yet...so if this TA does pass for some reason, it won't be setting a precedent or 'lowering the bar', as people love to say.

General Lee - your friend isn't quite correct. It's not an in-house union, but an association (SAPA) not recognized by the NMB. There has been talk recently about getting the association certified however. But for now the company does try their best (usually) to keep everyone relatively happy. Also, the president of the association isn't appointed by the company. He was a line pilot who volunteered for the position, and he does get 105 hrs pay every month to work for SAPA. If the pilot group gets upset with his performance, there could be a vote to remove him and find a replacement. Sorry, just trying to set the record straight.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

EMBDRVR,

Skywest flies for more than one airline. Yes, they will not fly anything over 50 seats for the Delta side (ASA and Comair get the 57 alotted 70 seaters), but for United they can get anything United approves---and I think they want Skywest to get bigger planes.

General,

You are incorrect on this one. According to our contract, no carrier can fly anything larger than 70 seats for any airline without our permission. If Skywest were to fly anything over 70 seats for anyone, they would lose their Delta contract.

Of course, our mec would probably roll over again.

 

[embdrvr]

It seems a bit strange that the Delta MEC could control what SkyWest could fly for United although the scope is understandable when applied to DCI flying. Do you think the MEC would roll over and play dead if SKyWest was going to fly 90 seaters for UAL?

 

[Jeepman]

SkyWeest IS NOT racing to the bottom! You guys must have missed the part where it said 18 MONTHS!! Not seven years like Air Whiskey or MESA. Again, if we were to get the 70 seaters we would almost be ready to renegotiate a new contract by the time we got the planes. By then UAL would be out of bankruptcy and we would be in a much better stand to raise the bar. If we don't approve the TA then MESA would most likely get the contract and we would probably furlough pilots.

 

[Midlifecrisis]

The SkyWest TA is...

1) Nobody's business but the pilots at SkyWest, certainly not the likes of General Lee (dude, don't you have anything else to do with your time than haunt the Regionals Board? Highest pay to the last day man, whatever) or anyone else who is not a SkyWest pilot.

2) The precedent for different sizes of aircraft being paid the same exists elsewhere, we wouldn't be inventing that wheel: the previously mentioned examples as well as UAL who pays the 737/A319/A320 the same, the 757/767 the same and the 777/747 the same.

3) The concept that SkyWest would be leading the industry to the bottom is crap. The TA doesn't ask for a pay CUT (unlike several recent regional TAs) and it's only 18 months (vs 7-15 years seen elsewhere). In case you haven't noticed, the economy still sucks, but our pilot group has a history or working with management proactively toward the betterment of the airline and thereby improving our own job security, future pay potential and quality of life.

Everyone just take a chill and let the good pilot folks at SkyWest make up their own minds without your bellyaching and whining.

MLC

 

[j41driver]

Didn't Air Wisconsin and ACA just vote on some pay concessions?

ACA has a TA but it hasn't been "officially" introduced to the pilots and is still subject to ratification, which, if CVG is any indicator most likely will not happen.

 

[g159av8tor]

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