Skywest TA??? Pay??

[JBcrjca]

Ok, I'm a SkyWest pilot too and I don't like the smell of this TA. But geez, I'm getting so tired of the phrase 'lowering the bar'. Quit comparing us to Mesa and CHQ.

HeavySet...even if this thing passes, there isn't a paycut for the 50 seaters like at Mesa or Air Wisconsin. How is that called 'lowering the bar'? Ok, so some guys might have to fly 70 seaters for six months or so while a new agreement is negotiated. IF it passes. At least I'm trying to look at the pros and cons here. I actually agree with General Lee...something needs to be in writing about what happens after the 18 months.

Another thing, HeavySet....what's your take on my previous example of AWA and UPS crews flying at the same rates fleetwide? Are they 'lowering the bar' for the majors? Maybe it's comparing apples to oranges, but it seems like the same basic principle as this proposal. A 747 capt makes the same as a 727 capt...are you bashing those guys too? If not, then leave the SkyWest guys alone and go find someone else to harass.

 

[Heavy Set]

Hey, I don't want to harrass anyone. I am defending you, if you can believe it - and I don't even work for Skywest...

The big difference is that the pilots who fly for UPS, etc. make a lot more money than the regional pilots. Regional pilots are on the lower end of the pay scale while the major airline pilots make 3 times the money - that is the difference. Some big European airlines operate the same way - A320 Captains can make as much as 747-400 Captains at Lufthansa (the senior guys prefer to fly short-haul and sleep at home most nights) - but they make a lot of money and it doesn't matter as much.

For the regional pilots who ALREADY do not make that much, this means a lot.... Think about it, most regional pilots will spend a larger proportion of their careers in the regional business than those during the hyper-growth latter 90s. The majors won't be hiring in droves like they used to for at least 5-10 more years. That means that an extra $20K per year could be worth substantially more to regional pilots because it represents a high proportion of total income. If you are making $150K as a UPS 767 FO, then $20K doesn't mean as much to you (even though you would love to have it). Do you understand my point?

Skywest would be setting an unhealthy precedent by paying 50-seater wages for 70+seater flying. Sure, the alternative is a pay cut. But things will eventually get better and Skywest management will return to the table with offers of 70-seat flying at higher wages. It has no choice if it wants to grow and provide United with right-sized capacity.

Regional pilots are already paid a low wage. Why put a ceiling on your wages when things might get better in the next year or so? Wait 18 months and then MAYBE review the situation (not in writing)? Give me a break......

Good luck to all involved!

 

[Windycity]

Maybe I've been spending too much time on reserve watching the History Channell about conspiracy theories and who shot Kennedy, but heres my take.

Come on guys, you actually believe our management team has only looked 18 months into the future and called it quits? There are some very bright people down there who have already played out the Pilot's scenario 18 months from now. If you think SGU only thinks 18 months into the future, you have your head up your a$$.

I've spelled it out on my last post. They WILL NOT give us raises in 18 months and practically dare us to do something about it. WE will have only two options, and they already know what they are. We can say oh well, and be the new Freedom of the industry, or option two, vote in a union. Neither option will get us a raise for at least two more years. Now this short term 18 month piece of gold just turned into a 4 year piece of crap. Remember, once the pay rate is in place, even with a union voted in, it becomes a contract. These rates will come back to haunt us big time. If they were planning on giving us a raise in 18 months, they would put it in writing. I could accept helping out the company for 18 months, but I won't sell my soul for empty promises.

As much as I may not like to admit it, Heavy Set and General LEE are dead on. This TA wil set a new low.

 

[General Lee]

Windycity,

You are right. I am also not making fun of you etc. because it hasn't happened yet. I am trying to warn you. I think growth is great, and the opportunity to fly larger RJ's would be fun. But, without something in writing about the length of time it would take to make that "review" is troubling. Like I said before---get something in writing that states that if something is not agreed upon within two months of the start of the "review"---then automatic double pay. That will get your management working on a better agreement, and hopefully times are better then. Without that, you guys will NOT get a raise because everyone else will follow in YOUR footsteps---and Mesa, Chitalk (for USair), and everyone else will have guys flying 90 seaters for 50 seat wages.

You see, I am not always a jerk. I actually care about other pilots, not only the Delta furloughs. (Now don't get all teary eyed on me now) (I still don't like the Comair MEC chair---that was for Anaconda)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[bladeusa]

dont take the bait... why negotiate rates for stuff u dont even have.. wait til its sitting on the ramp...

 

[Socalplt]

Skywrjguy, where do you see a 3%increse in pay in July? The rates in the TA are what have been in effect since last July -- with the exception that the FO rates are incorrect after year 3.

I'm in agreement with Windycity on this one as well.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Hey,
I will not vote yes for this "TA", General etal are all spot on! This is just the old bait and switch con game. SKYW is still making money per the SEC filings. SGU does have a bunch of smart guys working there and the have the ability to play the pilot group like a finely tuned fiddle, and we all dance.
I will vote for this "TA" with a few minor adjustments 50-90 seat payscale @ 90 seat payscale and 100-149 seats @ Southwest scale. This is really just minor adjustments to the agreement as it stands.
Now if we can just get them to belly up to our Kool-Aid bar.
Later
PBR

 

[maddog805]

YEP

This thread has taken a SCARY turn with everyone AGREEING with General lee, BUT I have to do the same, this TA is SH!T.

Management can come and talk to us when and if they place a firm order for larger aircraft. 99 seats for the price of 50? FO pay 49 cents on the dollar? Spare me.

 

[General Lee]

Thanks Maddog805, believe it or not I do not have only selfish thoughts. I want us all to do well, and I enjoy my job and want others to enjoy theirs. Just because I seem to be an advocate for the Delta Furloughs, doesn't mean I am blind to the other problems in this industry. Make sure you get everything you need in writing first---before you vote.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[roadrunner]

After bouncing back and forth on this thing, I think I'm with the vote NO crowd. Here's the way I see it. The company will make more money operating 70 and 90 seat aircraft per departure than on the 50's. Therefore, the crews should be earning more money flying them. I have no problem with one scale, if it's at, say an average between a 50 and a 90 seat rate, but not this 50 seat pay for all 3 acft. This TA is all take and no give from mgt. Maybe they could have budged on the long call reserve, or maybe some better work rules, more guaranteed days off, etc etc. That kind of stuff wouldn't cost the company much and would certainly make a lot of reserves happy that continually get the screws each and every month.