Skywest, Republic, and ALPA

[BrickTop]

The 3% you sacrifce could help to raise the wages in our segment of the industry 5% to 15% in the short term, and more down the road.

The 3% you contribute ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT guarantee an increased wage prolonged any more than operating costs will allow. You can organize and force your employers to agree to said wages but those wages will find their financial sustainability over time and the true market wages will force you to adjust or be threatened with wage or manpower reductions to reach a balanced operation. There is no doubt organized labor can assure you short term leverage but there is no such thing as a guarantee in wage sustainability. Every labor group in this industry including unions have been forced to adjust with the changing environment. Positive Employee/employer relationships have proven to be an optimized approach to controlling costs and creating a balanced product. I think the history in a few named airlines blatantly show the contrast and effect of those two measures.

 

[doh]

Translation: "F-ck the profession, what's in it for me?"

No, the correct translation: ALPA allowed outsourcing with no forethought as to how it would fragment bargaining power. Why would I want to join an orginization that knee jerks it's decisions in favor of short term benefit of the few as opposed to long term benefit for the profession?

 

[EBE]

We chose to avoid those relationships by choosing an employer with a reputation of valuing their employees

Yes, that's why our payscales keep up with inflation, our schedules just keep getting better and better, our benefits haven't been deteriorating, our reserves aren't treated like sh*t and everyone holds hands and sings happy songs.

 

[Nevets]

We don't need a union (yet) our managment treats/listens to us very well. So long as this relationships continues, we'll save our dues and they will keep us a competetive product. Should the need ever arise to adopt a union you can be sure ALPA will never see past the terminal glass.

Your management does not such thing. They just let you think they do.

Whaaatttt????
Have you being around the past decade or so? How has "representation" prevented you from being screwed? Skywest has never engaged on "paid-to-fly" with its partners. Everything we have is based on performance, contract, etc... How are we stabbing our "brothers" in the back?

One of the clauses on the DL and NW merger contract(both ALPA, mind you) cites a 5 year "fence" on the 777 and 747. No other aircraft. Even after one certificate, nobody can touch those 2 planes for 5 years. Whyyyy???? Because your ALPA reps and MEC's wanted to guarantee what's best for them (they are among the most senior on the property and just "happens" to fly those 2 airframes). They could give a d*mn about everybody else that they "supposed" to represent. They made sure they guaranteed what was best for them and ran with it.
Exactly same scenario with the age 65. They wanted to keep flying, so screw what the majority that they "represent" wanted. Your ALPA leadership will do what's best for them. If it happens to benefit you as well, great. If not, they really don't lose sleep over it.

Skywest is not perfect. Far from it. But now you're gonna tell me that ALPA would solve our problems is just pure stupidity. You want ALPA; good for you. I hope you're happy. If we don't, leave us alone. You honestly don't think that a sandwich and a t-shirt would buy my vote, did you? Come up with facts instead of "If the government / If management / If this, If that" and we can talk.

You are creating a downward pressure on other regional airline pilot pay. Every MEC will do what is best for their pilots. And they should. Your example of fences around 747s and 777s is exactly the point I try to make to people when they bring up conflict of interest. There is no conflict of interest because EVERY MEC will do what is best for their pilots, whether they are regional pilots or 747/777 pilots. The difference is that ALPA pools their collective effort for things like lobbying and safety initiative which ALL pilots take for granted.

Most of us at SkyWest chose to come here due to the exact labor group/management relationships that most other companies have failed rather consistently. You see the union as a means to strong arm your employers into the standards you wish to have in your career, which the unfortunate poor management of your respective company's create. We chose to avoid those relationships by choosing an employer with a reputation of valuing their employees and circumnavigating the need for organized labor that in the end has no more guarantee for your career than without.

I'm curious, are you planning on making a career at Skywest? Or will you go to Jetblue or Allegiant?

Just because you are unioninzed does NOT mean you have a bad relationship with your management.

My thoughts? I think you're an over-dramatic clown. thats what my thoughts are. put his job on the line? threatened by management? oooh! how terribly scarry! wow....

you guys are pathetic.

Yeah, its not like Skywest pilots don't get threatened by management either, especially when they are trying to organize.

So if I can wear an ALPO pin, then I'll be a real pilot?

Is that how it works?

What has any Skywest pilot done for the profession? Do they help with safety initiatives? Do they lobby congress in order to make sure that laws that are passed will be good for the profession? You know stuff like FMLA and FT/DT, etc.

Rez...all due respect, but what makes CFIT and other SkyWest pilots unprofessional? Is it because they choose to not participate in an establishment that a majority of the workgroup feels is broken? Let me tell you, I've dealt with pilots from many airlines, and I've never met a more consistently professional group of pilots than the pilot group at SkyWest.

Note that I refer to professionalism in regard to the areas where it counts, not just based on wearing a certain lanyard or pin -- knowledge & airmanship, appearance & conduct, and a willingness to do the right thing.

I know the response I'll get from this: "If these pilots would join and participate in ALPA, things would be better"...while the other end of the argument is, "If ALPA hadn't, in our eyes, failed it's membership, then perhaps we would consider joining".

I'm not siding with either the pro-union or anti-union side here...I can see the benefit of both situations...but, it's been a circular argument as long as most of us have been in this business. At what point do you just agree to disagree?...and how do the underhanded accusations of lacking professionalism toward a non-member workgroup really help your cause?

I worked for a non union company. And the vast majority of us were professional. As a matter of fact, most pilots are professional. The point is that the pilots themselves is what defines the union and help it make it as successful as possible. If Skywest pilots are indeed more consistently professional group then they will certainly be successful in running their union. In fact, if Skywest pilots are so professional, they can help make ALPA the union that will do the right thing by not failing its membership, as you say. The point is that unionization is not a means to an end. Its the tool that helps the professional pilots of Skywest help contribute not only to their pilots and company but to the entire profession.

I can agree to disagree but that doesn't mean I will stop making my point.

well, obviously the airline industry would shut down and cease to exist. Since its obvious that no type of industry could possibly operate without the guidance of such upstanding and reputable leadership like all those unions.

You didn't answer his question though? Of course it wouldn't cease to exist. But would it better for you and your profession?

The new head of Teamsters Local 747, which represents RAH pilots, put in 30 years as an ALPA member, and as an elected leader of his airline's membership along the way. He has stated that he feels ALPA is broken beyond repair, and that most of its support comes from nostalgia, not actual performance over the last decade.. The Local 747 has been weak thanks to the former President, who ran unopposed and for other reasons is in a world of legal issues related to his management of the Local. Our new trustees are trying to turn the ship around here at Local 747, and the next two years will decide the fate of Teamsters on the RAH porperty.

I sincerely wish Skywest would unionize. Things have gone well for the pilots there, but they do not realize how the lack of organization in their workforce is damaging the rest of us. I know Skywest guys in general don't mean to harm us all, and don't see the consequences, but that does not change the fact that they are causing damage to our profession. Union membership does not define professionalism, but it does define character. The 3% you sacrifce could help to raise the wages in our segment of the industry 5% to 15% in the short term, and more down the road.

I will never trust ALPA to represent the interests of a regional airline so long as ALPA is representing the pilots of the contracting major airline. It is a conflict of interests. Any gains acheived at the regional level come at the expense of mainline, and vice versa. I will only join ALPA is an ALPA mainline carrier purchases my aircraft and adds me to their mainline seniority list. End of story.

Why does he think ALPA is broken beyond repair? I mean, we put men on the moon right? Can we not fix whatever ails ALPA? Sounds like a weak cop out if you ask me. This guy seems talented enough to become a leader at the Teamsters. Why couldn't he put his effort in helping the only union of pilots for pilots? Anyways, ALPA does not have any conflicts of interests. Every MEC will do what is best for themselves regardless of what any other MEC does. MECs just pool their resources to help the profession. This is thee biggest misconception of ALPA out there. Its a bottom up organization. Its run by line pilots that direct the president what to do. Not the other way around.

The 3% you contribute ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT guarantee an increased wage prolonged any more than operating costs will allow. You can organize and force your employers to agree to said wages but those wages will find their financial sustainability over time and the true market wages will force you to adjust or be threatened with wage or manpower reductions to reach a balanced operation. There is no doubt organized labor can assure you short term leverage but there is no such thing as a guarantee in wage sustainability. Every labor group in this industry including unions have been forced to adjust with the changing environment. Positive Employee/employer relationships have proven to be an optimized approach to controlling costs and creating a balanced product. I think the history in a few named airlines blatantly show the contrast and effect of those two measures.

What airlines are you talking about? SWA, FDX, UPS, NJA?

Anyways, its actually 1.95% and its tax deductible which means that your actual dues rate is lower if you itemize.

 

[BrickTop]

Yes, that's why our payscales keep up with inflation, our schedules just keep getting better and better, our benefits haven't been deteriorating, our reserves aren't treated like sh*t and everyone holds hands and sings happy songs.

We're in a recession. Everyone is being treated in am manner they don't wish. Inside and outside of the airline industry. I put up with RSV and will again this winter. Trust me no one is more bitter about this economy than me. Personally I want to find the first person available and take it out of their face. But you can't blame one person. We have jobs and many in this industry will not soon or ever again. Be grateful for the position of being with our company instead of one you would be far more displeased with. Believe me there are people who want to be in your position.

 

[BrickTop]

ok sure.

 

[BrickTop]

Your management does not such thing. They just let you think they do.

Thanks for the physiological clarification. I realize now I wasn't capable of determining my own state of pleasure.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez...all due respect, but what makes CFIT and other SkyWest pilots unprofessional? Is it because they choose to not participate in an establishment that a majority of the workgroup feels is broken? Let me tell you, I've dealt with pilots from many airlines, and I've never met a more consistently professional group of pilots than the pilot group at SkyWest.

While I am sure they all perform well and high class, the flaw is that they don't have the ability to counter pilot pushing. The fact of the matter is when their supervisor tells them they will work another flight or day, they will basically do it. Freshmen or probationary ALPA pilots do the same, experienced seasoned ALPA pilots don't.

This is in your passengers interests too. Beyond fatigue, if a OO pilot feels a mx item needs to get fixed and management says fly... it is a tough situation. The OO pilot migght have to call his wife/gf and tell her he won't be home tonight because someone tells him what to do, but at least he has a paycheck right? It is really about money isn't it? Why buy the cow.... milk is free...

Now, you might reply and say OO management isn't like that. Maybe. But one of the reasons why OO management isn't like that or as bad is because the the spectre of unionization keeps OO management in check.

Note that I refer to professionalism in regard to the areas where it counts, not just based on wearing a certain lanyard or pin -- knowledge & airmanship, appearance & conduct, and a willingness to do the right thing.

All goes out the window, when your supervisor is pushing. Don't tell me it doesn't happen at OO. It happens at the majors and the regionals.

I know the response I'll get from this: "If these pilots would join and participate in ALPA, things would be better"...while the other end of the argument is, "If ALPA hadn't, in our eyes, failed it's membership, then perhaps we would consider joining".

How has ALPA failed its membership? Sure it has organizational flaws and didn't provide pay raises during the BK era.... but lets keep things in perspective.

During the BK era, ALPA followed ratified process.

I'm not siding with either the pro-union or anti-union side here...I can see the benefit of both situations...but, it's been a circular argument as long as most of us have been in this business. At what point do you just agree to disagree?...and how do the underhanded accusations of lacking professionalism toward a non-member workgroup really help your cause?

Because the OO pilots are taking advantage. Look at the jumpseat issues of this Spring and recently... OO pilots turn to United ALPA to solve the problem. United ALPA has been there for 70 years. Is that not an advantage to the OO pilots to solve the jumpseat issue?

Delta ALPA has also been there for just as long.

Agree to disagree? It is not a matter of personal preference like chicken or beef. The OO pilots are the welfare kids of the profession. They continually feed off and benefit from the safety and representational work of ALPA and other unions. Why should I and so many others pay dues and OO pilots gain the benefit?

 

[EBE]

We're in a recession. Everyone is being treated in am manner they don't wish. Inside and outside of the airline industry. I put up with RSV and will again this winter. Trust me no one is more bitter about this economy than me. Personally I want to find the first person available and take it out of their face. But you can't blame one person. We have jobs and many in this industry will not soon or ever again. Be grateful for the position of being with our company instead of one you would be far more displeased with. Believe me there are people who want to be in your position.

The recession is NOT the reason or a good excuse. Also, I know I am fortunate to have a job and think SkyWest is a solid company. However, that is not a reason to roll over.
Think about it....crappy 5% BHO after how long flying the 700/900 for 200 pay. Wrongful terminations. People in positions of power that shouldn't be. (i.e. scheduling) etc. etc. etc. Just because it's worst somewhere else, doesn't make it great here. It could and should be way better.

 

[Nevets]

ok sure.

Well, which airline were you talking about? FDX, SWA, UPS, NJA?

Thanks for the physiological clarification. I realize now I wasn't capable of determining my own state of pleasure.

It just didn't seem to me from reading what you posted that you realize that your management is not looking out for your best interest. I know this first hand.