Skywest, Republic, and ALPA

[JoeMerchant]

Would it be all right if mainline took their scope back? If they did I think regional pilots should have solid protections.... or opportunities... but if mainline gave it away... is it fair to get it back?

That depends on the protections and a pre-nup....If it isn't acceptable...then it will be met with resistance and an internal food fight...If you protect us on OUR equipment, then a reasonable deal can be reached.....As of yet that hasn't happened.

 

[JoeMerchant]

No regional MEC is told what to do by mainline MECs. If mainline MECs are able to scope back their flying, good for them. We should all support that regardless of whether you work for a regional or mainline.

Regionals are told what to do by ALPA national....I know because I have seen it first hand. Some tell ALPA national to pound sand....and some fold a cheap lawn chair.

Why should I support mainline in taking the flying back as a regional "lifer"? Keep in mind that depending on the regional, 35-40% plan on staying....What's in it for them?

 

[PCL_128]

I'm not sure we are on the same side.

I'm certain we're not.

You shouldn't have to "sell" ALPA...it should sell itself. I will say, you do better than you cohorts (Rez, PCL128, and waveflyer)...

Actually, I've been quite successful at "selling" ALPA, Joey. It pretty much does sell itself.

Regionals are told what to do by ALPA national....I know because I have seen it first hand. Some tell ALPA national to pound sand....and some fold a cheap lawn chair.

ALPA International doesn't tell anyone what to do. Suggestions are made by staff, and you either take them or ignore them. I've done both. They never seem to take it too personally when I tell them "thanks for the advice, but I'm going to do this other thing instead."

Why should I support mainline in taking the flying back as a regional "lifer"? Keep in mind that depending on the regional, 35-40% plan on staying....What's in it for them?

What's in it for you is a mainline number with a radically improved quality of life and much better career expectations.

 

[USCtrojan]

I'm certain we're not.



Actually, I've been quite successful at "selling" ALPA, Joey. It pretty much does sell itself.



ALPA International doesn't tell anyone what to do. Suggestions are made by staff, and you either take them or ignore them. I've done both. They never seem to take it too personally when I tell them "thanks for the advice, but I'm going to do this other thing instead."



What's in it for you is a mainline number with a radically improved quality of life and much better career expectations.

And a superior chance of being furloughed. No thank you. Thanks for playing Commie, now go home. Joe at least looks out for me, and for that reason I like his views. Yours? Not so much. Bye.

Trojan

 

[JoeMerchant]

I'm certain we're not.

I am sceptical of Nevets....but I know for a fact that you and I aren't on the same side. You could learn something from him. He is an ALPA cheerleader like you, minus the hypocracy and arrogance...Try it....

Actually, I've been quite successful at "selling" ALPA, Joey. It pretty much does sell itself.

Yes you have. You have convinced the Air Tran pilots that life will be much better with ALPA. Infomercials convinced thousands of people last night that they could make millions in real estate and have flatter abs....There is a sucker born every minute...but most only fall for it once.

What's in it for you is a mainline number with a radically improved quality of life and much better career expectations.

My quality of life couldn't get better. I get my choice of schedules. I just extended one week of vacation into 5 WEEKS! How many mainline pilots do that. Any deal that allows a mainline pilot to take that from me will be met with resistance...and not just by me!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

And a superior chance of being furloughed. No thank you. Thanks for playing Commie, now go home. Joe at least looks out for me, and for that reason I like his views. Yours? Not so much. Bye.

Trojan

How does he do that? You like his views because they appeal to a sense of bravado.... but it is all talk... better yet... please explain what his views have done for you and how his views "looks out for me"

 

[PCL_128]

I am sceptical of Nevets....but I know for a fact that you and I aren't on the same side. You could learn something from him. He is an ALPA cheerleader like you, minus the hypocracy and arrogance...Try it....

He just hasn't learned yet that you aren't worth wasting any breath on trying to be diplomatic and respectful. It does no good with you.

Yes you have. You have convinced the Air Tran pilots that life will be much better with ALPA.

They've seen the results already, Joey. Things have improved ten fold. After five years of negotiations, we've TA'd 8 sections in just 6 months since the ALPA help arrived.

My quality of life couldn't get better.

Yeah, those six leg days with 14 hours of duty are just sublime.

Any deal that allows a mainline pilot to take that from me will be met with resistance...and not just by me!

No one has to "take" anything from you, Joey. Deals can be worked out that are beneficial for both groups, if you'd just be willing to give it a shot. But as long as you're trying to steal from someone else (seniority grab), then you'll never get anywhere.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Where are the Skywest pilots' involvement in this?

New Resources for Jumpseaters
Wednesday, August 5, 2009 - The third day of the Jumpseat track at ALPA’s Air Safety Forum featured the rollout of the Association’s new “No Pilot Left Behind” jumpseat initiative, an effort designed not only to help commuters get to and from work more easily, but to strengthen Captain’s Authority over all aspects of operations. http://safetyforum.alpa.org/Portals/...-6-09_pic1.jpg
Jumpseat chairmen from ALPA, SWAPA, APA, IPA and other unions spent the day hearing an update on the Cockpit Access Security System (CASS) provided by system vendor ARINC as well as engaging in nuts-and-bolts discussions of how to prevent jumpseat fraud and deal with the thorny issues regarding cockpit access for non-pilot airline employees.
But the highlight of the Jumpseat Forum’s final day was the demonstration of the Association’s website designed specifically for jumpseaters industry-wide. Easily accessed by iPhones, Blackberries and other smart phones, Jumpseat.alpa.org, which was developed over the last six months, provides a one-stop shop for pilots seeking non-rev access.
“This is the resource that the jumpseat group has been asking for years,” said National Jumpseat Committee First Officer Rob Frank of Air Wisconsin. “Our goal was to address: ‘What does a pilot need at the gate? What does he need when he’s trying to non-rev on his own company and the flight cancels and he’s trying to get home? How do I get on Fedex? How do I get on UPS, or AirNet?’ It’s all right here.”
The public portion of the jumpseat page includes a comprehensive list of jumpseat policies and contact numbers for North American carriers large and small, from Air Canada to Xtra Airways. There’s also a jumpseat etiquette guide, an online link to the TSA complaint form, and a wide variety of links to weather pages and other non-rev websites like PassRider and FlightExplorer.com.
While the public page is available to all commercial pilots regardless of airline or union status, the site also includes a secure section where MEC jumpseat volunteers can compare notes and communicate with each other.
The “No Pilot Left Behind” initiative also features a convenient Jepp-sized pullout jumpseat guide in the September issue of Air Line Pilot magazine. Flight bag stickers with the “No Pilot Left Behind” logo have also been developed so that individual MECs can order them for distribution to their members.
Jumpseat chairmen also heard from ARINC program manager David Thatcher on the status of the CASS system. Growing from just a handful of pioneer carriers in 2002, 96 different airlines now use CASS to manage their cockpit jumpseat process, either via their own in-house IT systems or through a software-hosting arrangement with ARINC. About 4,600 CASS requests are made in any given day.
ALPA’s 2009 Air Safety Forum is being held at Washington, D.C.’s Omni Shoreham hotel. Get live updates about the Forum by following ALPA on Twitter, and check this website regularly for up-to-date coverage.

[URL="http://jumpseat.alpa.org/Portals/17/images/NoPilotLeftBehind.jpg"]http://jumpseat.alpa.org/Portals/17/...LeftBehind.jpg[/URL]

 

[FightingIrish]

Rez, I work as an ALPA jumpseat volunteer. I don't think you really want to go there. The United side has been very unfair to everyone, especially the UEX pilots. There is a real disconnect and this doesn't address it. You are making ALPA look bad. Please stop!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, I work as an ALPA jumpseat volunteer. I don't think you really want to go there. The United side has been very unfair to everyone, especially the UEX pilots. There is a real disconnect and this doesn't address it. You are making ALPA look bad. Please stop!

I am not talking about the UAL/UAX issue....

This is a new benefit for jumpseating.... Will Skywest pilots want the benefits? They do have a jumpseat committee and perhaps they were part of the process that brought this about.....

 

[FightingIrish]

I am not talking about the UAL/UAX issue....

This is a new benefit for jumpseating.... Will Skywest pilots want the benefits? They do have a jumpseat committee and perhaps they were part of the process that brought this about.....

I work with the Skywest jumpseat committee and they are professionals despite your attacks on them. They understand the value and work very hard to protect it. Here at ASA, we do to. This has nothing to do with ALPA, so please keep your agenda out of it. ALPA is on thin ice here at ASA, and you aren't helping.

They want the same things that you and I want. They aren't the devil you make them out to be. The problem we are having at ASA and Skywest is the mainline partner. They are both ALPA.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I work with the Skywest jumpseat committee and they are professionals despite your attacks on them. They understand the value and work very hard to protect it. Here at ASA, we do to. This has nothing to do with ALPA, so please keep your agenda out of it. ALPA is on thin ice here at ASA, and you aren't helping.

They want the same things that you and I want. They aren't the devil you make them out to be. The problem we are having at ASA and Skywest is the mainline partner. They are both ALPA.

I don't doubt you.... but it is bigger than jumpseating issues..... How does it have nothing to do with ALPA? When you say ALPA is on this ice?




ALPA might be on thin ice at ASA.... and that is just the way Jerry and the RAA like it....

What does UALPA and DALPA have to do with the mainline corporation's relationship with ASA and OO pilots?

 

[FightingIrish]

I don't doubt you.... but it is bigger than jumpseating issues.....




ALPA might be on thin ice at ASA.... and that is just the way Jerry and the RAA like it....

What does UALPA and DALPA have to do with the mainline corporation?

I'm sorry Rez, but I don't understand your post. What do you want to see?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'm sorry Rez, but I don't understand your post. What do you want to see?

The OO pilots pulling on the same rope as the rest of us.... instead of riding in the back, consuming resources and being disrespectful..... as I said this goes far beyond jumpseat privileges....

 

[FightingIrish]

The OO pilots pulling on the same rope as the rest of us.... instead of riding in the back, consuming resources and being disrespectful..... as I said this goes far beyond jumpseat privileges....

As an ASA ALPA volunteer, I can assure you that the Skywest pilots are pulling on the same rope. It is some ALPA carriers that are pulling against us at ASA. Mesa hurt us. Compass hurt us. The Skywest pilots are not "disrespectful" to me. How are they to you? Are the Mesa pilots "disrespectful" to you?

Our downward pressure isn't coming from our Skywest brothers. You are barking up the wrong tree and trying to pick a fight that isn't there. Do yourself and ALPA a failure. Please stop.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

As an ASA ALPA volunteer, I can assure you that the Skywest pilots are pulling on the same rope. It is some ALPA carriers that are pulling against us at ASA. Mesa hurt us. Compass hurt us. The Skywest pilots are not "disrespectful" to me. How are they to you? Are the Mesa pilots "disrespectful" to you?

How are they pulling on the same rope?

Did ALPA create the company MESA? or Compass?

Why would the OO pilots disrespect you? There are good guys at OO. But the issue is national and global.... not exclusive to the jumpseat world...

Sooner or later OO cost will get high.. and management will have to out source OO pilots or OO pilots will have to take serious wage cuts... note Epress Jet and Colgan..

Our downward pressure isn't coming from our Skywest brothers. You are barking up the wrong tree and trying to pick a fight that isn't there. Do yourself and ALPA a failure. Please stop.

Of course it is... OO management knows a good deal when they see it... having the OO pilots non union is less resistence. They like it so much that they are working on getting the ASA pilots to reject ALPA.. either legally or "spiritually'. Union representation is about access to govt. As long managment has access to govt and OO pilots do not.. managment is happy...


Look at it this way... when the ALPA Pres, whoever s/he is, goes before Congress and says I represent 50,000 plus airline pilots.. it gets noticed. what he needs to be saying is.. I represent 100% of the Air Line Pilots in the US. Recall the APA pilots and the B scale... those senior clowns needed levegage and they sold out the next gen. Regardless of why the APA left ALPA, leaving ALPA was bad for all of us..


If the President of the USA went to the United Nations or G8 or another international representation event and said "I represent 42 of the 50 United States...." How would that sit with you? Consider a land locked state like Kansas or OK who removed it self from the federal level but stayed connected to the 50 states ecomonmically. They stopped paying into the federal budget, including the defense budget because they knew thier defense was most assured. As a tax payer would that concern you?

Don't worry... the JB pilots are just the same as the OO pilots.... so its not like the OO pilots are that special....

 

[FightingIrish]

How are they pulling on the same rope?

They value the jumpseat. They value safety. They want a strong Skywest Inc. They are fellow professionals who work for the same corporation as I do. Why do you think they aren't pulling on the same rope?

Did ALPA create the company MESA? or Compass?

Why would the OO pilots disrespect you? There are good guys at OO. But the issue is national and global.... not exclusive to the jumpseat world...

Rez, you answer too many questions with more questions. That doesn't work for most people.

ALPA represents Mesa, and it puts downward pressure on ASA. ALPA created Compass, and it puts downward pressure on ASA. The Skywest pilots don't disrespect me, and I respect them. You don't respect them, and you are spokesperson of ALPA. As an ALPA volunteer, you disrespect me everytime you speak bad about my fellow Skywest pilots. They have a bigger spine than you want to admit. It's some of my fellow ALPA pilots that I wonder about.

Of course it is... OO management knows a good deal when they see it... having the OO pilots non union is less resistence. They like it so much that they are working on getting the ASA pilots to reject ALPA.. either legally or "spiritually'. Union representation is about access to govt. As long managment has access to govt and OO pilots do not.. managment is happy...

The Skywest pilots aren't working on getting ASA pilots to reject ALPA. The movement is coming from ASA pilots who were ALPA reps. Former MEC members, and MEC officers are advocating dumping ALPA. Why is that? It isn't coming from Skywest pilots.

 

[joe_pilot]

...Look at it this way... when the ALPA Pres, whoever s/he is, goes before Congress and says I represent 50,000 plus airline pilots.. it gets noticed. what he needs to be saying is.. I represent 100% of the Air Line Pilots in the US. Recall the APA pilots and the B scale... those senior clowns needed levegage and they sold out the next gen. Regardless of why the APA left ALPA, leaving ALPA was bad for all of us..

If the President of the USA went to the United Nations or G8 or another international representation event and said "I represent 42 of the 50 United States...." How would that sit with you? Consider a land locked state like Kansas or OK who removed it self from the federal level but stayed connected to the 50 states economically. They stopped paying into the federal budget, including the defense budget because they knew their defense was most assured. As a tax payer would that concern you?
....

Rez,

Do you honestly think this is a valid comparison? Seriously now. Come on.

-JP

 

[Nevets]

2. My attitude is based on the fact that I am looking out for what is best for ASA....not what is best for you, mainline pilots, or the "profession". I think that any solution now will have "collatoral damage" including many regional pilots.

3. I'm not sure we are on the same side.




It's my job to do what is best for me...that's what most people are going to do...Any solution that doesn't keep that in mind is doomed to fail...As far as "blame" and getting over the past...you know the saying...Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it....I don't think we have learned from history yet....




You shouldn't have to "sell" ALPA...it should sell itself. I will say, you do better than you cohorts (Rez, PCL128, and waveflyer)...There constant attacks on those who disagree, and especially the Skywest pilots, makes it harder to take ALPA seriously.




See, now you have lost any support from about 30-40% of regional pilots....Any deal that puts a single mainline pilot senior to a regional pilot on the aircraft we fly, is a deal breaker. You may not agree with that, but that is simply a fact.

I feel that we are on the same side on this issue. And I also feel that doing what is best for you is not necessarily not the same thing as doing whats best for the profession. I just think we disagree on how to do what is best for the profession and hence, for you.

I also feel that we should learn from our mistakes as you said. But blaming people in of itself will not help. And as humans, we will always make mistakes, so I agree that we havent learned from history yet because history and mistakes are continuously being made.

You are also right in that I shouldnt have to sell ALPA insofar as that no one should have to sell voting in presidential elections. The fact is that there is some apathy among pilots. Im only trying to give facts and my opinions.

Also, any deal would probably include fences. Of course there will be drawbacks on both sides. But the regioanl pilot gains more qol in the end because there will no longer be the threat of your flying going to the lowest bidder.

Regionals are told what to do by ALPA national....I know because I have seen it first hand. Some tell ALPA national to pound sand....and some fold a cheap lawn chair.

Why should I support mainline in taking the flying back as a regional "lifer"? Keep in mind that depending on the regional, 35-40% plan on staying....What's in it for them?

Regianl MECs are NOT told what to do by ALPA other than whats in the administrative manual. And to change or amend the administrative manual, it requiers votes from regional regional pilots. Regional MECs can also solicity advice, council, facts, fromt he many departments within ALPA national. But there is no requirement to act on any of it. I know this because I have seen it first hand.

Whats in it for them is better qol because of job security. I thought you were all for brand scope?

And a superior chance of being furloughed. No thank you. Thanks for playing Commie, now go home. Joe at least looks out for me, and for that reason I like his views. Yours? Not so much. Bye.

Trojan

Not sure if that was for me but Ill reply anyways. What views exactly dont you like?

They want the same things that you and I want.

Of course they want the same thing. We all want better pay and qol. The question is, what can they do about it without a BA recognized by the NMB?

As an ASA ALPA volunteer, I can assure you that the Skywest pilots are pulling on the same rope. It is some ALPA carriers that are pulling against us at ASA. Mesa hurt us. Compass hurt us. The Skywest pilots are not "disrespectful" to me. How are they to you? Are the Mesa pilots "disrespectful" to you?

Our downward pressure isn't coming from our Skywest brothers. You are barking up the wrong tree and trying to pick a fight that isn't there. Do yourself and ALPA a failure. Please stop.

I can tell you from personal experience that SKW has applied downward pressure to at least on airline. The worst thing is that their pilots had no say or way to help mitigate that. In essence, they are pulling against us on the rope.

ALPA represents Mesa, and it puts downward pressure on ASA. ALPA created Compass, and it puts downward pressure on ASA.

The Skywest pilots aren't working on getting ASA pilots to reject ALPA. The movement is coming from ASA pilots who were ALPA reps. Former MEC members, and MEC officers are advocating dumping ALPA. Why is that? It isn't coming from Skywest pilots.

And just imagine how much worse it would be if Mesa or Compass were not ALPA/union. Do you think there would be more downward pressure then?

I hope this movement isnt because some see the situation at ASA as compared to SKW. Otherwise, the plan may be working better than they probably hoped for.

 

[USCtrojan]

How does he do that? You like his views because they appeal to a sense of bravado.... but it is all talk... better yet... please explain what his views have done for you and how his views "looks out for me"

He fights for ASA pilots. I like that. I don't care about you, you see. Joe is an ASA pilot and he fights in his way for ASA. I disagree with some of his stances, but most I agree. Most of yours I disagree with and about all of Commie_128's views I disagree with. Joe has a lot of balls to say what he does, much in the face of controversy. He does so, and respectfully I might add. Your views, admittedly I scroll through mostly. No offense, but you're incredibly boring, and quite frankly, you get schooled by Joe Merchant every time you square off. But that's just my opinion, nobody else's.

Joe has a LOT of experience, I respect that too. I've had the opportunity to speak to him personally about some of the issues at hand, and again, he's quite knowledgeable. I'm not gonna go into specifics, I'm sure there's so many posts between you two over the last year that can more than illustrate this point. Good luck to you. Regards,


Trojan