Skywest, Republic, and ALPA

[ePilot22]

He does so, and respectfully I might add. Your views, admittedly I scroll through mostly. No offense, but you're incredibly boring, and quite frankly, you get schooled by Joe Merchant every time you square off. But that's just my opinion, nobody else's.

Regards,


Trojan

+1







eP.

 

[JoeMerchant]

He just hasn't learned yet that you aren't worth wasting any breath on trying to be diplomatic and respectful. It does no good with you.

You really aren't that bright then....You may not like my opinions. You may not agree with my opinions. They are however shared by many regional pilots. Nevets is willing to discuss the issues....You want to preach from a position of hypocrisy...That dog won't hunt. Career regional pilots will not tolerate being lectured to by a Gulfstream/PCL/Air Tran pilot about how great ALPA is and how we need to take one for the team for the greater good.....You have a lot to learn...

They've seen the results already, Joey. Things have improved ten fold. After five years of negotiations, we've TA'd 8 sections in just 6 months since the ALPA help arrived.

Like the new PCL contract, the Air Tran contract will be far short of what many expect. You and the rest of the Air Tran MEC will sell it to the pilot group. It will barely pass, and life will go on. You will then crow about how great ALPA is...nothing much will change.

Yeah, those six leg days with 14 hours of duty are just sublime.

I will do two of those next month....I will work 6 days and get paid 75 hours...I can deal with those two 6 leg days.

No one has to "take" anything from you, Joey. Deals can be worked out that are beneficial for both groups, if you'd just be willing to give it a shot. But as long as you're trying to steal from someone else (seniority grab), then you'll never get anywhere.

I can work with anyone and I agree that a deal can be worked out that is mutually beneficial. I have never advocated stealing anyones seniority. In fact it is the mainline pilots that advocate that. We want protection in our seats....We actually like our schedules and our positions. I suspect some junior mainline pilots would love our schedules. It is always a one way street from the mainline side. They want us on the bottom of their list while they march into the top of ours....That dog won't hunt either...That is the real seniority grab.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I feel that we are on the same side on this issue. And I also feel that doing what is best for you is not necessarily not the same thing as doing whats best for the profession. I just think we disagree on how to do what is best for the profession and hence, for you.

I am a career "lifer" at ASA...You and I don't exactly have the same goals. Therefor, I have to be scepticle. I will give you credit in that you are more understanding and capable of adult like conversations than Rez, PCL128, and waveflyer. I notice that most of the ALPA cheerleaders come from XJT and PCL....very few from ASA and CMR...

I also feel that we should learn from our mistakes as you said. But blaming people in of itself will not help. And as humans, we will always make mistakes, so I agree that we havent learned from history yet because history and mistakes are continuously being made.

I only bring up the past because it is obvious we haven't learned from it. There is still, to this day, a double standard between "regional" pilots and "mainline" pilots. It is all around us. It is this mistake that got us here....We haven't learned from it. It isn't "blame" as it is telling you that we don't trust ALPA or "mainline" pilots on this issue.

You are also right in that I shouldnt have to sell ALPA insofar as that no one should have to sell voting in presidential elections. The fact is that there is some apathy among pilots. Im only trying to give facts and my opinions.

As am I. I am not selling anything. I was an ALPA cheerleader. I have the stickers and ALPA training binders to prove it. I saw from the inside. You will never convince me that it is a good thing. "Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me" I won't be fooled again. ALPA can only work if we are all on the same page....Simple fact is we aren't. No amount of Kumbaya can change that. Even the ALPA cheerleaders at ASA admit that RJDC was a positive thing for ASA...Why is that?

Also, any deal would probably include fences. Of course there will be drawbacks on both sides. But the regioanl pilot gains more qol in the end because there will no longer be the threat of your flying going to the lowest bidder.

My QOL can't get any better unless you pay me to sit home...Other "lifers" are in the same position. Why is that so difficult to understand that we just want to keep what we have. I don't want to bump a 757 pilot out of his seat....Is it too much to ask that nobody bumps me out of my seat? You can disagree, but without those protections....there will be no deal.

Regianl MECs are NOT told what to do by ALPA other than whats in the administrative manual. And to change or amend the administrative manual, it requiers votes from regional regional pilots. Regional MECs can also solicity advice, council, facts, fromt he many departments within ALPA national. But there is no requirement to act on any of it. I know this because I have seen it first hand.

I have seen it first hand also. In 1998, as a member of the ASA CNC, we spent more time bargaining with ALPA, then we did with ASA. ALPA told us flat out that we were asking for too much. ALPA told us flat out that we were just "regional" pilots and we couldn't do what we were doing. ALPA told us we had to have a representational attorney from national in the room during the end game. I sat in Randy Babbitt's office and told him that wasn't going to be acceptable. In the end we were right and national was wrong. We had a very stubborn and mostly senior group of "lifers" who didn't mind telling ALPA to pound sand.....that isn't always the case.

Whats in it for them is better qol because of job security. I thought you were all for brand scope?

I'm all for brand scope, but I don't see it happening at this point. It will cost a lot of negotiating capital, and the mainline pilots have too many other things they are trying to capture. Their pay and benefits have been cut in half.....They aren't going to spend capital on brand scope regardless of how much you and I want it...World peace would be nice too, but it isn't going to happen either.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

They value the jumpseat. They value safety. They want a strong Skywest Inc. They are fellow professionals who work for the same corporation as I do. Why do you think they aren't pulling on the same rope?

We all value the jumpseat. We can jumpseat because of the CFR. Only an act of congress can change that. Or FAA/DOT policy. In order the deal with Congress or the FAA/DOT you have to have a voice and be in DC. The Skywest pilots have non of that.

If you are a jumpseat guy ask around about the 9/11 conference call and how jumpseating was saved on the call.... how did the Skywest pilots particapte in that call and how have they benefited...

Rez, you answer too many questions with more questions. That doesn't work for most people.

It is designed to promote thought....

ALPA represents Mesa, and it puts downward pressure on ASA. ALPA created Compass, and it puts downward pressure on ASA. The Skywest pilots don't disrespect me, and I respect them. You don't respect them, and you are spokesperson of ALPA. As an ALPA volunteer, you disrespect me everytime you speak bad about my fellow Skywest pilots. They have a bigger spine than you want to admit. It's some of my fellow ALPA pilots that I wonder about.

HOW did ALPA create compass. Did ALPA acquire the certifcate and investor money?

The lowest paid legacy pilots put downward pressure on the rest of the legacy pilots.... what is your point?

The Skywest pilots aren't working on getting ASA pilots to reject ALPA. The movement is coming from ASA pilots who were ALPA reps. Former MEC members, and MEC officers are advocating dumping ALPA. Why is that? It isn't coming from Skywest pilots.

You seem to have management and the pilots confused...

Air Line Pilots Do Not Run Airlines.....

The JB pilots think they do....... that is why they allow themselves to be lured into this comp committee....

This stuff is as old as 1930's Air Mail flying...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

He fights for ASA pilots. I like that. I don't care about you, you see. Joe is an ASA pilot and he fights in his way for ASA. I disagree with some of his stances, but most I agree. Most of yours I disagree with and about all of Commie_128's views I disagree with. Joe has a lot of balls to say what he does, much in the face of controversy. He does so, and respectfully I might add. Your views, admittedly I scroll through mostly. No offense, but you're incredibly boring, and quite frankly, you get schooled by Joe Merchant every time you square off. But that's just my opinion, nobody else's.

Joe has a LOT of experience, I respect that too. I've had the opportunity to speak to him personally about some of the issues at hand, and again, he's quite knowledgeable. I'm not gonna go into specifics, I'm sure there's so many posts between you two over the last year that can more than illustrate this point. Good luck to you. Regards,


Trojan

I asked you a question.... what has he done? What does he do? Specifics..... Tell us or me about a problem at ASA that he has solved or made better... what improvements has he done to bring about your repsect...

details....? Yes, of course...

 

[USCtrojan]

I asked you a question.... what has he done? What does he do? Specifics..... Tell us or me about a problem at ASA that he has solved or made better... what improvements has he done to bring about your repsect...

details....? Yes, of course...

First off, he fights the hypocrisy daily that comes with a "mainline" pilot wanting my seat. At much discredit to his own name. He was instrumental in keeping "jets4jobs" out of ASA and thereby not allowing anybody to take my seat. Everything else rolls from that. I don't agree with him on all issues, but he's pretty dead on with a lot of the inconsistencies of our National Union. No, I've never been a part of rjdc. Details? I talk to Joe every once in awhile and I get a great take on perspective in the airline industry. You? You're just a mouthpiece on this forum. I'll take Joe over you any day of the week and twice on sunday. I mostly ignore you. But it is fun watching Joe school you. Again, just my opinion. Joe's got a lot more information than I will ever have on this whole Union business. I talk to our Reps, some senior pilots and Joe to try and gain some good perspective. Joe's always got good perspective, whether I disagree with him or not.

Trojan

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

First off, he fights the hypocrisy daily that comes with a "mainline" pilot wanting my seat.

How? On FI? In the Crewroom? As a union member? Committee or elected? Just curious..

At much discredit to his own name. He was instrumental in keeping "jets4jobs" out of ASA and thereby not allowing anybody to take my seat. Everything else rolls from that.

Was this when he was S/T? Or in another capacity?


You don't own your seat. It isn't yours. It is subject to the availability of current contracts and agreements.

I don't agree with him on all issues, but he's pretty dead on with a lot of the inconsistencies of our National Union. No, I've never been a part of rjdc. Details? I talk to Joe every once in awhile and I get a great take on perspective in the airline industry. You? You're just a mouthpiece on this forum. I'll take Joe over you any day of the week and twice on sunday. I mostly ignore you. But it is fun watching Joe school you. Again, just my opinion. Joe's got a lot more information than I will ever have on this whole Union business. I talk to our Reps, some senior pilots and Joe to try and gain some good perspective. Joe's always got good perspective, whether I disagree with him or not.

Trojan

I think Joe does know more than you.... and that is what makes him sound informative, and creditable. That doesn't mean he is right, or effective if given the opportunity to work with others.....

 

[USCtrojan]

How? On FI? In the Crewroom? As a union member? Committee or elected? Just curious..





Was this when he was S/T? Or in another capacity?


You don't own your seat. It isn't yours. It is subject to the availability of current contracts and agreements.





I think Joe does know more than you.... and that is what makes him sound informative, and creditable. That doesn't mean he is right, or effective if given the opportunity to work with others.....

I don't own my seat? LMAO! You're right. I don't own my seat, but I'm going to protect it at all costs, and that means not giving it away. Current Contracts? If ALPA National is about giving my seat away, guess where I will put ALPA? I love our local Union. I believe they do some really good things for our pilots, if I stop believing that because my seat is negotiable, guess what? I'm beginning to feel about National more and more like Joe. And guess what, you don't own my seat either (thank God) as Joe once stated awhile ago, there's no "parental supervision." He's been right all along. Guess what, you're not gonna change my mind and you've done a very good job yourself of making many, many pilots HATE ALPA. So good job yourself. Good thing I don't listen to you, I make up my own mind, even if it includes being wrong.

I'm not going to play your little game. You want to get into every intricate detail. I don't give a crap. I will do what I feel is right and what I want to, and you don't matter. End of story, you want details, go talk to Joe, I'll still listen to him, not you. Again, no offense, these are my own thoughts and opinions. Good luck to you. I'm done here.

Trojan

 

[acpilot]

So arguably the two biggest regionals now, Skywest and Republic, have either no Union at all (Skypest) or a worthless union (Repuke-lic). It seems as maybe the majors have decided not to do as much business with the stronger regionals, and have slowly given more flying to these two scumbag outfits.
Maybe we (ALPA regionals) are our own worst enemy by becoming too strong?

SkyWest is doing something right. No furloughs yet, correct? They are able to keep their pilots employed and flying...something unions have been unable to do for their many of their due-paying members. Why ruin SkyWest with a union?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't own my seat? LMAO! You're right. I don't own my seat, but I'm going to protect it at all costs, and that means not giving it away. Current Contracts? If ALPA National is about giving my seat away, guess where I will put ALPA? I love our local Union. I believe they do some really good things for our pilots, if I stop believing that because my seat is negotiable, guess what? I'm beginning to feel about National more and more like Joe. And guess what, you don't own my seat either (thank God) as Joe once stated awhile ago, there's no "parental supervision." He's been right all along. Guess what, you're not gonna change my mind and you've done a very good job yourself of making many, many pilots HATE ALPA. So good job yourself. Good thing I don't listen to you, I make up my own mind, even if it includes being wrong.

Sounds like you have a problem managing your expectations. Why do you expect ALPA National to be something it never was or is not. ASA and its pilots are its own bargaining agent. The best you can do is the best you can do..... ALPA National will provide resources....

But that is the way we like in the USA right..? You stand on your own merit? You and your pilot group get what you put into it.... right? Are you saying that you should get something more? More than you put into it? Well you do... look at the MCF....

If your pilot group wants to be highly effective politically... then they need to mobilize... lead your group or hope for a someone to do it...

ALPA National will represent you on CapHill.... and that is worth more than you know... or care about.. because CapHill representation doesn't put $$$ in your pocket today.... so who cares right?

I'm not going to play your little game. You want to get into every intricate detail. I don't give a crap. I will do what I feel is right and what I want to, and you don't matter. End of story, you want details, go talk to Joe, I'll still listen to him, not you. Again, no offense, these are my own thoughts and opinions. Good luck to you. I'm done here.

Trojan

Now suddenly its my game.. well you were playing fine until the tough questions were asked... I am not asking for intricate details... just basic details... really, I don't want to put you out of your comfort zone... but if are going to champion the guy, at least be able talk intelligently about it not from a position of bravado and tough talk (no action).....


Wanna Be Air Line Pilots never say "I hope I am politically effective in my Air Line Career......"

 

[JoeMerchant]

You don't own your seat. It isn't yours. It is subject to the availability of current contracts and agreements.

Rez,

You have said exactly what ALPA has told the ASA and CMR pilots...It is for that very reason that ALPA is having difficulty on those properties. As long as that is the position of ALPA, there will be very little support for ALPA here. I'm not going to change your mind and you aren't going to change my mind....however as long as that is the position of ALPA, I will fight ALPA....and so will many others.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Rez,

You have said exactly what ALPA has told the ASA and CMR pilots...It is for that very reason that ALPA is having difficulty on those properties. As long as that is the position of ALPA, there will be very little support for ALPA here. I'm not going to change your mind and you aren't going to change my mind....however as long as that is the position of ALPA, I will fight ALPA....and so will many others.

Yeah, we know, you fought, you lost!
Now grab your LEC minutes, go home and :bawling::bawling::bawling:

 

[crj567]

Yeah, we know, you fought, you lost!
Now grab your LEC minutes, go home and :bawling::bawling::bawling:

-What is wrong, Gen?

Some little neighborhood kid just give you another painful wedgeie? Well, the bright side is: that pain will fade into the background while you are gargling your way through your next swirly. Just learn to "take it like a man."
-Builds character.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

-What is wrong, Gen?

Some little neighborhood kid just give you another painful wedgeie?

No tanker clown, but your mom......when did she start biting?

Well, the bright side is: that pain will fade into the background while you are gargling your way through your next swirly.

I'm afraid a night with Mrs. crj567 is gonna require more than just a swirly. Looks like a complete sterilization is in order here!

Just learn to "take it like a man."
-Builds character.

You mean like "her?"
Like mother like son!
Get going tanker clown, I understand ASA is cutting back.
You're going to be furloughed, it's a fact.
And it will be fun to watch:laugh:

 

[WalterSobchak]

No tanker clown, but your mom......when did she start biting?



I'm afraid a night with Mrs. crj567 is gonna require more than just a swirly. Looks like a complete sterilization is in order here!


You mean like "her?"
Like mother like son!
Get going tanker clown, I understand ASA is cutting back.
You're going to be furloughed, it's a fact.
And it will be fun to watch:laugh:

Super classy. Hellfire, I'm not even a pilot and I want to sign up for ALPA after reading this gem!

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Super classy. Hellfire, I'm not even a pilot and I want to sign up for ALPA after reading this gem!

Glad you approve.
Neither is the aformentioned ****************************** bag!

 

[XPOO]

Glad you approve.
Neither is the aformentioned ****************************** bag!

Wow, you're the mainline version of PBRStreetgang. You two could kill a few kittens whacking of to each other over the phone. Let me get you his number.

 

[WayBack]

No, we see the union as a means of having a voice in our own careers. We have a voice in our profession, not just at our own companies, but in Washington, DC, at ICAO, at IFALPA, etc... You don't.

You're kidding, right?
Sure, you get a voice. But it falls upon def ears.
ALPA hasn't down anything for the pilots QOL in the last 30yrs. Oh, but they have urged pilots to take pay cuts, followed up by neat little slogans like "Live to fight another day!"
What happened to Praters "We're taking it back!" rally? Looks like USAir took theirs back and booted ALPO off the property. Good for them.
Also, how many ALPA pilots have been furloughed in the last 2 years? How many non-ALPA?
Just look at PCL right now, the precious little airline that you served. They're about to get bent over with a contract with INDUSTRY AVERAGE WAGES!! Along with a W2 signing bonus, which will screw over the most junior guys again, while the top senior guys will make out like bandits.

Like Joe said. You're the biggest hypocrite out there. Paid for a job at GIA. Then PCL and now you're at the airline where all SCABS went to. I bet it's because you felt safe there, knowing that you bent over fellow pilots at the begining of your career.

 

[SkyNation]

WayBack,

his raging hard-on for ALPA distorts his vision. they say this is common for wood lasting for more than 4 hours. by now this dude is pretty much completely blind.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Wow, you're the mainline version of PBRStreetgang. You two could kill a few kittens whacking of to each other over the phone. Let me get you his number.

Nah...PBRStreetgang is kinda funny sometimes and probably a generally OK guy outside of FI.