Skywest, It's time to unify

[maddog805]

Brain. What up?

 

[ArcticFlier]

'Sup???

Brain. What up?

How's the Moosehead treatin' ya? I was in MEM a few weeks ago. Had a Big Ass Beer (okay....a couple), a shot of Crown, and wrecked the flight attendant. How's that?

Need to get down to the Hard Rock and see if Shawn is still running the place. Keep that bar tab down.


AF

 

[Rick James]

Bring ALPA on NOW! I've called and asked to help the next drive, no response yet. Maybe it's because I've got a bit of a hot head???

 

[SkyWstman]

ALPA is really our best bet. No sense in trying to re-create the wheel. You gotta have teeth (strike fund) and backbone (unity). If you have true unity in the ranks you can do anything. Comair was a great example. I wish the pilot group at Skywest could see that they are totaly disrepected by management. The reason they walk all over us is because they can. They don't know who they hired. It's time we show them that they hired professional airline pilots and that we will have a say concerning our future.

 

[Truckdriver]

ALPA is really our best bet. No sense in trying to re-create the wheel.

Your right on here. If you set up an in-house union, it may take you years to get things set up to run in your favor. APA and SWAPA have had years to get things going right and they both work fine. When your in a bind, like it seems SKYW pilots are, the last thing you want to do is figure out how to set up a union. You would be much better off to bring in ALPA and use all of their resources to get things done right the first time. I worked for a few years under the IACP at XJT and things have been much better with ALPA, and the IACP had been running for awhile. I'll step out on a limb and say that ALL 2600 XJT pilots along with ALL other ALPA pilots will stand firmly behind the SKYW pilots in a drive to bring ALPA on property. The regional industry, especially DCI, would benefit greatly from SKYW being represented by ALPA.

 

[Gobi Gred]

SkyWstman,

I completely agree with what you are saying. However I just don't see it happening. I lost faith in the SkyWest pilot group awhile ago. How many more times do I have to listen or read some SkyWest pilot say "Gee fellas I just don't know if ALPA, certified SAPA, UPA is right for us." "We don't need that union stuff here." "Now is not the right time, our TA expires in 18 months." You get the picture.

 

[SkyWstman]

The Giant is waking up from it's stupor. I meet guys every day who have changed their mind. I meet guys that are down right angry at the way things are going. It's our only hope. There is nobody on our side. SAPA is a four letter word that means weakness. What we have is a vote concerning our future. At this point that's all we have. Let's make this thing happen. It's only going to get worse if we don't stop the trend of the needle.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Ive been at XJT for over 8 years. The progress we have made is simply amazing. We went from 10 days off and 13.49 an hour for new hires to up to 12 (in 31day months) and a lot more pay. When I could have taken my first upgrade the pay was 27-29/hr.....even for the RJ!!! Im now at over 70/hr. I don't train on my days off. I hardly ever talk to crew scheduling. I've asked for and gotten 3 round trips dropped in the last 6 weeks. In 2004 I had 199 days off.....even with picking time up for OT. I trade my whole line to do only trips I want. I overnight at home about 2 times a month. I always get commutable trips unless I want something else.

The cool thing with ALPA are all the committees we have. Saftey, Jumpseat, Scheduling, pro-standards, hotel, ect. Management has realized that it's easier to let us as a union handle all this stuff than for them to do it and listen to us b1tch. For instance, our union builds our monthly schedules!!!! They get guidance and direction as to what needs to be flown but the union does 90%. It pretty cool if you think about it.

The best thing is not worrying about my job. If the company does somthing thats not right the union goes to battle not the pilot. (major issues)... So we are not intimidated, theres no reason to be. I highly suggest the pilots of Skywest get on board....no matter which union for christ sake do somthing!

Steve,

Good post. I just want to clarify something you said though...all lineholders get 12 days off in ALL months...it is reserves who only get 12 days off in 31 day bid periods.

-Neal

 

[Illinois]

Skywest folks,

Don't forget a union would instantaneously fix the 401K problem. Our senior pilots are losing hundreds of thousands of dollars in the long run because SGU is incapable/unwilling to fix our "retirement plan."

Most people I hear that are against the union do not want to pay for representation they do not feel they need. None of us are infallable, and while we already have ASAP I think 2% is worth the medical and legal coverage ALPA provides.

Even if dues were not tax deductable, we should all be stepping on eachother to vote YES to protect ourselves in retirement. Many of us are going to call SKYW home until age 60, and your 2% to ALPA now would pay huge dividends to your 401K account in the coming years.

 

[Truckdriver]

Skywest folks,

and while we already have ASAP

How does ASAP work at SKYW? Who reviews ASAP reports and who can decide on what kind of action comes from the reports? Is there someone from the pilot group that represents you that has an interest in protecting the pilots? I just ask these questions because I'm not sure how it works at SKYW.

At XJT we have a management representative, an ALPA representative, and an FAA representative that all review the ASAP reports. If any one of the parties thinks that no action should be taken, the issue is dropped and the data is used to learn what to fix in the airline. I don't know of anyone who has filed and ASAP and been violated. It just isn't going to happen with ALPA in the room unless you tell them in an ASAP that you smuggled stuff in from Mexico or flew drunk.

 

[mckpickle]

Steve,

Good post. I just want to clarify something you said though...all lineholders get 12 days off in ALL months...it is reserves who only get 12 days off in 31 day bid periods.

-Neal

Sorry Neal, I was refering to what New Hires could expect.


Go get em Skywest guys. Don't fall for the carrot again.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

We've needed a union here for the last 2 decades, the problem is there are too many tea drinkers that just don't, and never will "get it"!

 

[ilkwamh2]

A union will only be as strong as the MEC and the people on the union board...if the same people get voted to the union board as we have on the SAPA board, don't you think it will be the same result?

-Ichi

 

[SkyWstman]

The SAPA guys won't be runnin the show. They've showed us nothing. All they can say is "yes Sir management that's a good point. We'll tell that to the pilot group." There are some excellent guys that are true to the profession that will be availing themselves.

 

[SkyWstman]

Management's job has never changed. Their job is to extract every penny of productivity out of the work force. They are excellent at that. I don't fault management. I just don't see why there are some folks who just don't understand that. Management is doing exactly what they are supposed to do and they always will. They will push and push and take your lunch money until you stand up and punch them in the nose. Enough already guys, they will never give you anything. Several years ago during a drive they promised top of the industry payscale. Where is it? Then they promised an 18 month TA which led many of us to believe that we would go to a separate payscale with higher pay for the 70 seater. 18 months come and gone. Same old story. Lie after Lie after Lie. The recent seniority breach with the 70 training. They don't care. They are not supposed to. You are the only one who can make a difference. Kneel down and put your lipstick on for them or get up and vote and make a difference. I'm done with this crap and you should be too. It's also much bigger than us. Once we unify we can join the rest of the industry and begin to take back what's been stolen. We can do this thing! It's gonna take time but it is doable.

 

[Illinois]

Truckdriver,

From what I understand, the ASAP reports are view by a management rep, the FAA, and a pilot rep. It seems to work the same way you describe at your company.

 

[Wowjack]

The pilot rep, I believe is someone from SAPA. It does seem to work the same as mentioned earlier.

 

[Morning Wood]

Skywest folks,

Don't forget a union would instantaneously fix the 401K problem. Our senior pilots are losing hundreds of thousands of dollars in the long run because SGU is incapable/unwilling to fix our "retirement plan."


Really? How?

 

[surplus1]

Management's job has never changed. Their job is to extract every penny of productivity out of the work force.

You are right about that and joining a union will not change that. However, if you manage your union well, you can give management the maximum productivity that the law allows, which is 1000 flight hours per year, under jointly agreed and controlled conditions in which you have a legal voice than cannot be ignored. Today, you have no legal voice at all in anything!

Do I think you all should join a union? Yes, I do and have for many years.

Will it solve all your problems overnight? NO, it will not do that and it probably will NEVER solve all of your problems. The big difference will be that the Company will not be able to change whatever you agree to without your consent. That's very different from the status quo.

Your "first contract" will probably be inferior to many other contracts. That's usually the case, but it will be a legal contract, not an "understanding" that the Company can change at will.

As an outsider, I don't think you have any reason to complain about not getting your expected 18-month change in 70-seat pay. You never had a "TA" that you keep talking about. You never had a "contract" and you don't have one now. The Company can change your pay to whatever it wants, whenever it wants. It can do that to any other make-believe "agreement" that you have.

As long as you are not members of a union with a legally negotiated contract, you are "employees at will." You may think you have a seniority sytem but the fact is you do not. Today, your seniority is whatever the Company says it is, whether you like it or not. You can pretend all you want but that is a legal fact; you have no real seniority. If tomorrow they decide to take it away the only legal choice you have is to quit. The truth is the majority of you aren't going to do that no matter what management does, and you can bet they know it.

ALPA has a great many problems, particularly as it relates to its regional pilot membership. Neverthless, if you decide to join a union, ALPA is definitely the best game in town. It is literally miles ahead of whomever is in second place, regardless of all its many faults.

ALPA can't and isn't going to get you a "great contract". Whatever contract you eventually get will depend on SkyWest pilots, not on ALPA. The difference is simple: when you do get a contract, it will be a real contract and legally binding on both you and the Company.

Yes, the company can still violate your "real contract" just as it violates the make-believe agreement that you have now. However, you WILL have legal recourse with a union. At present the only recourse you have is to pout, which is YOUR fault. You have had several opportunities to organize and rejected them all, so there is no one to blame for the things you are complaining about other than yourselves. That's what you wanted (in the majority) and that's exactly what you have, i.e., nothing.

When you have a union, you can still have a lousy contract if that is what you choose to negotiate. MESA is a good example of that. However, MESA pilots did NOT have to accept that contract, it was a choice that THEY made. Granted they were "set up" both by their management and the actions of ALPA. Be that as it may, they are the one's that decided to take what they have. They did not have to do so. You can follow in their footsteps if you choose or you can do much better if you wish.

When the XJT pilots were talking about getting into ALPA I had a lot to say about it that they did not like. Many of them interpreted what I said as being anti-ALPA. They were wrong. I was not against them joining ALPA, I was against them doing it as a part of the CAL MEC. Now that they've figured out that was not in their best interests and have their own MEC, they are doing just fine. They had one of the worst contracts under the IACP (again mostly because it was a CAL union, not theirs.) Today, as independent members of ALPA, the XJT pilots have negotiated one of the BEST contracts in the regional industry. They are proud members of the ALPA in their own right and you would do well to take their advice.

If you are going to become unionized, my adivice would be the same as theirs: join the ALPA and do it now. No matter what contract you ultimately get for yourselves, the other benefits of the ALPA are more than worth the dues you will pay. Just one serious medical problem, or one threat to your license from the FAA, one "fender-bender" of an incident, and you'll learn in a heartbeat the value of being a member of the ALPA. An independent union does have its advantages but, for a small airline, which you are, the disadvantages outweigh them. The ALPA is the best way to go, IMO.

Just think about this as the last example. What will you do if tomorrow SkyWest buys or creates another airline that does NOT include you? How will a totally powerless organization like SAPA deal with that? Answer: You would not have a leg to stand on. They can wipe you out, transfer your airplanes and your flying with the stroke of a pen and there would be absolutely nothing that you could even TRY, legally, to do about it. Think it can't happen? Don't bet on it!

Yes, I have a self-interest. The fact is that as long as you remain a non-union airline, your pilot group is a potential threat to mine and to every other unionized pilot group, large or small. My group has already felt the impact of your very unwise compensation decision and so have countless other "union" pilots. So, it is true that it would be better for the rest of us if you decide to join a union.

The bottom line is: it would also be better for you.

Best wishes.

 

[Magneto]

I couldn't agree more with surplus. I'm a relatively new guy at SkyWest and I have been served the kool-aid. Boy did it taste good but I soon realized what I was tasting.

I hope that we can vote in ALPA as soon as possible. What worries me is the new guys with the shiny jet syndrome. We as SkyWest pilots need to start taking it upon ourselves to indoctrinate these guys with the reality of our situation. I would say probably more than 70% of our pilots don't even read these message boards (including our own sapa forums), and therefore are naive about the situations affecting our pilot group. There are other ways to learn about what is affecting us today but more than likely that info is coming from management (kool-aid).

Sorry for the rant I am just tired of seeing our situation degrade here and I want to start down that road of fixing things.