Skywest, It's time to unify

[SkyWstman]

Surplus1, Thanks for the info, I have an ALPA background as a prior member. You are correct in what you shared. I just hope the rest of the guys realize the value in having a voice. There is value in being able to dig your heels in without concern of repercusions.

 

[Ben Dover]

Why the next drive will fail

While there has been a ground swell of discontent at SkyWest, here's why the next ALPA drive at SkyWest will fail.

Who will for YES and who will vote NO?

Newhires overwhelmingly will vote NO - flat out newbee coolaid drinkers

Most pilots at small bases in California will vote NO - They're under the radar and out of the way. Nobody bugs them as long as they don't screw up. Mostly content, after all as long as they can catch a wave now and then life is good.

Most senior captains will vote NO - They're not happy with the way things are going, but don't think a union will fix anything. They'll be outta here in 5-6 years anyway.

Jerry wannabees will vote NO - A smattering of folks who just admire Jerry and have full confidence that he will take care of them through thick and thin.

Reserve captains will vote YES - Constantly understaffed and abused, reserve captians will vote a resounding YES.

Mid & low seniority lines holders mostly YES - Tired of the decline in QOL.

Pilots from Pilot families vote YES - "My Daddy worked for YoNited and he says I need a union!"

When the votes are tallied it will be very close but the next ALPA drive will fail.

 

[SSDD]

Ben, I disagree with your assessment of senior pilots. Remember that it was the senior pilots who fueled the last drive. Also, most senior pilots are in their late 40's to early 50's, hardly out of here in the next few years.

 

[Ben Dover]

SSDD,
My survey of YES/NO votes is informal and anecdotal at best. You may be correct. I have been surprised, though, that some very senior captains I have spoken with are not union supporters.

 

[ArcticFlier]

Why it will pass................

While there has been a ground swell of discontent at SkyWest, here's why the next ALPA drive at SkyWest will fail.

Who will for YES and who will vote NO?

1. Newhires overwhelmingly will vote NO - flat out newbee coolaid drinkers

2. Most pilots at small bases in California will vote NO - They're under the radar and out of the way. Nobody bugs them as long as they don't screw up. Mostly content, after all as long as they can catch a wave now and then life is good.

3. Most senior captains will vote NO - They're not happy with the way things are going, but don't think a union will fix anything. They'll be outta here in 5-6 years anyway.

4. Jerry wannabees will vote NO - A smattering of folks who just admire Jerry and have full confidence that he will take care of them through thick and thin.

5. Reserve captains will vote YES - Constantly understaffed and abused, reserve captians will vote a resounding YES.

6. Mid & low seniority lines holders mostly YES - Tired of the decline in QOL.

7. Pilots from Pilot families vote YES - "My Daddy worked for YoNited and he says I need a union!"

When the votes are tallied it will be very close but the next ALPA drive will fail.

1. We can change that. It's our job to enlighten the newbies. Something we haven't done a good job of in the past. That will change as the koolaid is starting to taste like crap.

2. Possibly, but they are small bases with small numbers.

3. Flat out wrong. Let's just say I'm in the top 7% of the seniority list. Those around me (with a few exceptions) are all pro union. Have been for a long time.

4. Again, it's our job to change that line of thinking. We may not change all minds, but a few may be all it needs. Witness the last ALPA drive results.

5. Yep.

6. Yep.

7. By your logic, I should therefore vote no. My Dad isn't a big fan of ALPA at all, but is a retired airline pilot.


AF

 

[Bluto]

I'm surprised by the following anti-union types:
a.) Super senior, first airline job: (these are actual quotes from a single CA) "Jerry wants what's best for me personally.", "Unions are pure evil.", "I don't think I'm underpaid.", (no kids, wife is a nurse)
b.) Shafted by x other airlines and doesn't want to rock the boat: (paraphrase) "Yeah, I was ALPA at Piedmont, Allegheny, AirWisconsin, and Mesa, but it didn't really work out for me at those places so I'll trust in SGU to take care of me.

 

[regionaltard]

The problem is not them. It's us. Let's not play the victim anymore. Let's slap ourselves into the real world and take back what's been stolen. We don't have to let our a$$'s get kicked anymore. We need professional, powerful, representation. We need unity in the group and we need teeth. Let's deal ourselves an ACE.

Trouble in the "Workers' Paradise?" Who'd a thunk it?

The power of your representation will be directly proportional to the involvement of your pilot group. Best of luck getting things turned around there.

 

[Splert]

Skywest folks,

Don't forget a union would instantaneously fix the 401K problem. Our senior pilots are losing hundreds of thousands of dollars in the long run because SGU is incapable/unwilling to fix our "retirement plan."





Really? How?

You should ask SAPA to explain this to you instead of asking on a BBS. That should tell you all you need to know about the priorities of SAPA: SAPA first and then maybe the pilots. SAPA will never explain the benefits of a CBA to the pilot group. SAPA is about SAPA. SAPA is what is important to SAPA.



If they will not answer your question, and they will not, since you have accesses to the internet you will need to research the issue yourself. Me typing that a CBA would IMMEDIATELY lead to separate testing of NHCE vs HCE employees with a CBA probably will not change you mind. If that will not change your mind, then call your friends at other airlines with 401k programs and CBA and ask if they are having the same problem that SkyWest pilots have had over the past 4 YEARS.



Isn't that great we have SAPA and we all have to research many, many of these issues by ourselves.



Good day

 

[Morning Wood]

You should ask SAPA to explain this to you instead of asking on a BBS. That should tell you all you need to know about the priorities of SAPA: SAPA first and then maybe the pilots. SAPA will never explain the benefits of a CBA to the pilot group. SAPA is about SAPA. SAPA is what is important to SAPA.



If they will not answer your question, and they will not, since you have accesses to the internet you will need to research the issue yourself. Me typing that a CBA would IMMEDIATELY lead to separate testing of NHCE vs HCE employees with a CBA probably will not change you mind. If that will not change your mind, then call your friends at other airlines with 401k programs and CBA and ask if they are having the same problem that SkyWest pilots have had over the past 4 YEARS.



Isn't that great we have SAPA and we all have to research many, many of these issues by ourselves.


I didn't say they couldn't/wouldn't fix it. I simply wanted to know how
they would " instantaneously" fix it. I don't think ALPA or anyone else
can work that fast.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Newhires overwhelmingly will vote NO - flat out newbee coolaid drinkers

Unfortunate that the people who are getting $h!tted on the most would vote no.

Mgmt: "Hey little boy...wanna be a real airline pilot??? Come on over and we'll hold you hostage for two months and not pay you a dime!".

Little boy's response..."OK, that sounds great! Can I pay for my Jepp charts too? Thanks for letting me work here...I'll never vote for a union!".

I am a former SKYW pilot. If I were there today I'd vote for ALPA. Too many times the proverbial carrot has been dangled in front of the SKYW pilot group. Especially when a union vote comes up.

Time to organize, harmonize and Simoniz!

GP

 

[Chairman]

So you are stating the drive at Jet Blue then

 

[Splert]

I don't think ALPA or anyone else
can work that fast.

A CBA will fix it "that fast".

The 401K test will need to be applied to only those covered by a CBA. No negotiations needed. The fact that we would be covered by a CBA is all that is required for seperating 401K plans.

SAPA will never tell us that....

Good Day...

 

[Cappy]

Ive been at XJT for over 8 years. The progress we have made is simply amazing. We went from 10 days off and 13.49 an hour for new hires to up to 12 (in 31day months) and a lot more pay. When I could have taken my first upgrade the pay was 27-29/hr.....even for the RJ!!! Im now at over 70/hr. I don't train on my days off. I hardly ever talk to crew scheduling. I've asked for and gotten 3 round trips dropped in the last 6 weeks. In 2004 I had 199 days off.....even with picking time up for OT. I trade my whole line to do only trips I want. I overnight at home about 2 times a month. I always get commutable trips unless I want something else.

The cool thing with ALPA are all the committees we have. Saftey, Jumpseat, Scheduling, pro-standards, hotel, ect. Management has realized that it's easier to let us as a union handle all this stuff than for them to do it and listen to us b1tch. For instance, our union builds our monthly schedules!!!! They get guidance and direction as to what needs to be flown but the union does 90%. It pretty cool if you think about it.

The best thing is not worrying about my job. If the company does somthing thats not right the union goes to battle not the pilot. (major issues)... So we are not intimidated, theres no reason to be. I highly suggest the pilots of Skywest get on board....no matter which union for christ sake do somthing!

You have pointed out some important truths, especially in the last paragraph. When things go wrong it is up to the committee members to first offer guidance and then the MEC, if necessary. Issues that need resolution are not handled by people in some big glass building at ALPA HQ. The ALPA HQ is only a place of resource for the individual MEC's.

You are only as strong as your pilot groups will, and your MEC. Remember, YOU are ALPA, not a group of lawyers hudled in a building. The same holds true for AMFA (Mechanics), AFA (Flight Attendants), Teamsters (Truckers and UPS), etc.

Unionizing at skywest changes nothing unless they realize that it is something that they WANT and will USE!

Rant over!

Mike

 

[BossHogg]

Can I pay for my Jepp charts too? Thanks for letting me work here
GP

You guys don't pay for your Jepp plates do ya?

 

[amcnd]

Going union will also drive the cost of health care up for us. SkyWest gets a break on there insurance because they do not have any unions. Who do you think will bare the cost of this? The pilot group! Im not for ALPA and also not pro company, but you need to think of the other thing's a union brings on the company.

 

[Chairman]

A CBA will fix it "that fast".

The 401K test will need to be applied to only those covered by a CBA. No negotiations needed. The fact that we would be covered by a CBA is all that is required for seperating 401K plans.

SAPA will never tell us that....

Good Day...

Actually SAPA had told us that and I have personally discussed a pilot only 401k with Mike Krupp. One of the problems as you stated above the 401k tests would only apply to thoes under the CBA. We still have pilots not putting enough into ther 401k. I agree though this is the biggest issue that needs to be resolved with any TA or Union drive

 

[MJG]

Im not for ALPA and also not pro company, but you need to think of the other thing's a union brings on the company.

Why don't you remind all of us ALPA members how much your 70 seat captains are making.....

 

[Splert]

Actually SAPA had told us that and I have personally discussed a pilot only 401k with Mike Krupp. One of the problems as you stated above the 401k tests would only apply to thoes under the CBA. We still have pilots not putting enough into ther 401k.

There are more NHCE outside of the pilot group than within. We are 2000 out of 7000 total employees. The weighted average is heavy on the NHCE non pilot group employee. A guess would put the number close to 6000 NHCE. These contributions far out weigh the contributions of the HCE. A CBA would put the NHCE number closer to 1700 not 6000 with the same approx. number of HCE.

SAPA didn't tell us. They may have told you and you may have spoken to MR. Krupp but SAPA has never told us.

Question: Name another pilot group who can't contribute fully to the 401K program other than SkyWest. COMAIR makes more than us and as a result they have more HCE and would be further out of balance. Why aren't they?

Good Day...

 

[homie]

How did ALPA help the pilots of Alaska Airlines regarding their recent pay cuts?

 

[BluDevAv8r]

How did ALPA help the pilots of Alaska Airlines regarding their recent pay cuts?

If you think "ALPA" or any union is going to prevent a pilot group from ever taking a pay cut, you are sorely misled. ALPA's resources will allow an individual MEC to improve pay and benefits in the good times and mitigate their loss in the bad times but at the end of the day, it is up to the individual MEC to utilize those resources to their fullest extent and ultimately the membership will have a vote on the course of action. Alaska's MEC agreed to binding arbitatration - ALPA National did not agree for them.

-Neal