SkyWest IAH Base, What If ?

[Flopgut]

It most certainly is new flying. The job flying a Continental customer in a 70 seat jet out of Houston or Newark belongs to a Continental pilot. Period. Skywest mgt better do more than simply ask United mgt if it's "ok" if they want to assure their pilots that they are not violating CAL's scope clause! This is NOT "shifting around" or redistribution. This is opportunity being taken from CAL pilots in violation of a lawful contract. The name of the brand happens to be United. That's the DBA [doing business as]. The company is United Continental Holdings. I don't care how long these planes have been flown in the system. When it gets flown out of Houston or Newark it's a CAL pilot's job.

CAL mgt feels confident they are going to win this arbitration, only because they have an unlimited budget to fight us. I don't think they are going to win. I do think that even if they lose, they are still going to do it. That's when it's going to get interesting. If the arbitrator says it's not legal and CAL [UAL] goes through with it, are you guys going to fly it? We'll take it to whatever level we can. The question is what are you guys flying for these companies going to do when you're at a point of decision?

 

[nimtz]

Of COURSE Management is salivating for new flying.
When UAL/Express flying went into terminal A at IAH, the CAL pilots could not have cared less.
Now that they are seeing Express flying in other terminals at IAH it's a huge
deal.

Actually I did care. In short order 5 friends of mine got furloughed because of those large RJ's parked at places like Terminal A. In fact, I cared all the way back in early 2001 when Mesa got the first contract to fly large lawn darts for America West. I knew back then that commuter pilots would never make but a fraction of the mainline job being lost.

The fact that some of guys sang praises about their companies due to short upgrades made me absolutely sick. The fact that your pilot group was willing to fly those 70 seaters for 50 seat pay made me absolutely sick. And despite what some of your esteemed colleges might think, you still get paid peanuts.

Unfortunately the bludgeoning of the last decade made what I thought back in 2001 crystal clear; don't let the stinking camel poke his nose under you tent.

 

[ehaecker]

It most certainly is new flying. The job flying a Continental customer in a 70 seat jet out of Houston or Newark belongs to a Continental pilot. Period. Skywest mgt better do more than simply ask United mgt if it's "ok" if they want to assure their pilots that they are not violating CAL's scope clause! This is NOT "shifting around" or redistribution. This is opportunity being taken from CAL pilots in violation of a lawful contract. The name of the brand happens to be United. That's the DBA [doing business as]. The company is United Continental Holdings. I don't care how long these planes have been flown in the system. When it gets flown out of Houston or Newark it's a CAL pilot's job.

CAL mgt feels confident they are going to win this arbitration, only because they have an unlimited budget to fight us. I don't think they are going to win. I do think that even if they lose, they are still going to do it. That's when it's going to get interesting. If the arbitrator says it's not legal and CAL [UAL] goes through with it, are you guys going to fly it? We'll take it to whatever level we can. The question is what are you guys flying for these companies going to do when you're at a point of decision?

Ummm...quit our jobs and put our entire families in jeopardy to protect your job? Is that what you want to hear??

Yeah, that'll really show management, won't it!?

Point is, this needs to be dealt with on a MANAGEMENT level, and not a pilot level. I'd love to have control over this, because if it were up to me, I'd never open a base in Houston!

 

[Flopgut]

Well, I don't know what to say. I don't want your family to do without. But that is no less than exactly what we have going on at CAL. We just started calling back our furloughs. UAL has their furloughs as well. You think those pilots don't have families too? You want it handled on a mgt level? Tell your mgt they are sending you into a fight. If that earlier post was a quote from Skywest flt ops, then they have acknowledged that there is a dispute. But it is not about jumpseats, it's about jobs. They are telling you to take CAL pilots' jobs....

 

[bluesky3]

The job flying a Continental customer in a 70 seat jet out of Houston or Newark belongs to a Continental pilot. Period. Skywest mgt better do more than simply ask United mgt if it's "ok" if they want to assure their pilots that they are not violating CAL's scope clause! This is NOT "shifting around" or redistribution. This is opportunity being taken from CAL pilots in violation of a lawful contract. The name of the brand happens to be United. That's the DBA [doing business as]. The company is United Continental Holdings. I don't care how long these planes have been flown in the system. When it gets flown out of Houston or Newark it's a CAL pilot's job.

Hey Flopgut, I'll ask it again....Do you hold the same contempt and disdain for your fellow CAL pilots that sit in the seat next to you that disregarded EAL's lawful CONTRACTS and SCOPE? What did your fellow airmen do when EAL's planes, routes, and gates were transferred to CAL? What did your fellow pilots do when new bases opened up as a result of this? I sure hope you bring these things up and express your displeasure with their actions. The CAL pilots actions didn't exactly advance the pilot profession.

 

[ehaecker]

I sure don't have any answers. I wish I did. I, for one, and trying to avoid IAH like the plague. Will I quit my job if I get displaced there against my will? Absolutely not.

Yes, that earlier post was indeed from our system cp. I, and many other SKW pilots, are not amused. If we believed everything UAL's "legal department" said, we'd all be flying internationally for $0/hr pay. I saw it as more "feel good" crap from management in an effort to go over the heads of those who don't know any better.

Hasn't an injunction been filed? Aren't we all kind of in "limbo" until we hear something official from that?

 

[johnpeace]

Well, I don't know what to say. I don't want your family to do without. But that is no less than exactly what we have going on at CAL.

I'm not getting how it's the responsibility of the line pilots at Skywest to enforce a contract between CAL pilots and UAL management.

What does the CAL/UAL MEC say about it?

Why don't you go on strike or slow down work or grieve it or sue or whatever you need to do to protect your contract?

Pinning it on the pilots at Skywest seems pretty weak.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

I'm not getting how it's the responsibility of the line pilots at Skywest to enforce a contract between CAL pilots and UAL management.

What does the CAL/UAL MEC say about it?

Why don't you go on strike or slow down work or grieve it or sue or whatever you need to do to protect your contract?

Pinning it on the pilots at Skywest seems pretty weak.

Why don't Skywest pilots tell their management that they will not fly that work until a resolution between CAL/UAL and their pilots has been reached? After all, it could really hurt your career progression if you are blacklisted etc... What looks better on a resume, flew contractually violated work at CAL/UAL when applying to an ALPA carrier such as the new UAL or DAL, or, I was terminated for not violating your contract???

Yogi

Yogi

 

[MikeSF340]

Why don't Skywest pilots tell their management that they will not fly that work until a resolution between CAL/UAL and their pilots has been reached? After all, it could really hurt your career progression if you are blacklisted etc... What looks better on a resume, flew contractually violated work at CAL/UAL when applying to an ALPA carrier such as the new UAL or DAL, or, I was terminated for not violating your contract???

Yogi

Are you serious? I have NO love for the Skywest pilots, but get a clue and grow some balls! If the Continental scope clause is being violated then it is THEIR job to fix it. I wouldn't tell a Skywest pilot to get fired and put his family in jeopardy because whoever wrote the scope clause in the Continental contract was an idiot and didn't cover all the contingencies. This is not struck work!!!! Every CAL captain has control over his/her parking break. If they want something fixed why don't they take care of their own house? This is like asking your little sister to go to a fight for you. Embarrassing!!!

 

[Flopgut]

Hey Flopgut, I'll ask it again....Do you hold the same contempt and disdain for your fellow CAL pilots that sit in the seat next to you that disregarded EAL's lawful CONTRACTS and SCOPE? What did your fellow airmen do when EAL's planes, routes, and gates were transferred to CAL? What did your fellow pilots do when new bases opened up as a result of this? I sure hope you bring these things up and express your displeasure with their actions. The CAL pilots actions didn't exactly advance the pilot profession.

You have a hell of a good point. And yes, nobody gives them a meaningful break. They will continue to get drug through the mud forever. What is interesting is that many of them ask the same question about the current situation. Pilots have to be consistent.

 

[Homer Jay]

Why don't Skywest pilots tell their management that they will not fly that work until a resolution between CAL/UAL and their pilots has been reached? After all, it could really hurt your career progression if you are blacklisted etc... What looks better on a resume, flew contractually violated work at CAL/UAL when applying to an ALPA carrier such as the new UAL or DAL, or, I was terminated for not violating your contract???

Yogi

Are you serious? I have NO love for the Skywest pilots, but get a clue and grow some balls! If the Continental scope clause is being violated then it is THEIR job to fix it. I wouldn't tell a Skywest pilot to get fired and put his family in jeopardy because whoever wrote the scope clause in the Continental contract was an idiot and didn't cover all the contingencies. This is not struck work!!!! Every CAL captain has control over his/her parking break. If they want something fixed why don't they take care of their own house? This is like asking your little sister to go to a fight for you. Embarrassing!!!

Our scope clause was written by the best in the business. There is no loop hole and it IS illegal flying. Smisedick is testing us.

 

[Flopgut]

I'm not getting how it's the responsibility of the line pilots at Skywest to enforce a contract between CAL pilots and UAL management.

What does the CAL/UAL MEC say about it?

Why don't you go on strike or slow down work or grieve it or sue or whatever you need to do to protect your contract?

Pinning it on the pilots at Skywest seems pretty weak.

Both parties are going into expedited arbitration and we should have a ruling before the flying starts. Problem is I think mgt intends to go ahead with it even if we win. There is a LOT of work being done. It's not being "pinned" on Skywest or whoever. But we do believe you owe us some regard for our contract.

Months ago CAL mgt (they are the ones running UAL now) said our scope clause would cost 400 million in wage increases, or 200 million to fight. Since the company just made about a billion in one quarter, they don't mind burning 200 million. And they don't care if you get caught up in the middle of it. You choose to do whatever you choose to do. If it's not possible for you to give a sh1t about our contract then so be it. I say what I say so there is at least some info out there and you are informed.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

Are you serious? I have NO love for the Skywest pilots, but get a clue and grow some balls! If the Continental scope clause is being violated then it is THEIR job to fix it. I wouldn't tell a Skywest pilot to get fired and put his family in jeopardy because whoever wrote the scope clause in the Continental contract was an idiot and didn't cover all the contingencies. This is not struck work!!!! Every CAL captain has control over his/her parking break. If they want something fixed why don't they take care of their own house? This is like asking your little sister to go to a fight for you. Embarrassing!!!

If managements get pressure from all sides, the outcome may actually work out better. But if you are not willing to stand up, you are showing that you don't care about SCOPE!

Just got off the phone with a buddy from SWAPA(yes, SWA) and he said they are watching this very closely. Look for a statement by them soon! He states, if CAL wins arbitration, and management goes ahead anyway, it would be a really bad deal to fly that work... He said, what happens to the Skywest feed for Airtran, this would have to disappear once the acquisition is made as SWA has severe restrictions on outsourcing. If they go ahead and keep flying that work... Beware the career progression, BEWARE!!!

Yogi

 

[ehaecker]

I don't "not give a sh1t about your contract", I just fail to see how it is OUR responsibility, as SKW pilots, to uphold it. Don't take that the wrong way though. Like I've been saying all along, I don't agree with the flying, and I am trying to avoid it (not that I have much choice if I get displaced or TDY'ed).

I wish I could refuse do do any of this flying, but I don't have much of a choice unless I am willing to put my job at stake, which I am not willing to do. They will just replace me with a new-hire UAL furloughee. When they run out, they will just be replaced by the thousands of Riddle kids with SJS.

The best way to work through this is by legal means, not bullying and blacklisting.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

I don't "not give a sh1t about your contract", I just fail to see how it is OUR responsibility, as SKW pilots, to uphold it. Don't take that the wrong way though. Like I've been saying all along, I don't agree with the flying, and I am trying to avoid it (not that I have much choice if I get displaced or TDY'ed).

I wish I could refuse do do any of this flying, but I don't have much of a choice unless I am willing to put my job at stake, which I am not willing to do. They will just replace me with a new-hire UAL furloughee. When they run out, they will just be replaced by the thousands of Riddle kids with SJS.

The best way to work through this is by legal means, not bullying and blacklisting.

You can write SAPA, your cp, and your upper management. You can state your position and strongly urge that this is not a good position for you, the Skywest pilot, to be in. If enough of you help on your side, it may make a difference. But, you are not willing to do that, so all I can say is Karma is a funny thing! Respect is earned! We are surely battling it from our side...

Yogi