Skybus' "rules of the sky"

[Heavy Set]

A swift kick in the arse? Free!

 

[Juniority]

Jumpseat? Sure! That'll be $10.

Plus $5 for that roller bag.

 

[Fins Up]

Are they selling overhead space yet?

 

[skiandsurf]

Are they selling overhead space yet?

Actually, yes they are. Not for carry on bags, but for advertisement. You know, like the subways.

 

[AV80R]

I give them 18 months.

I wish I agreed with you but I don't. I think they are here to stay - look at Ryanair in Europe - the fastest growing airline over there - people just love to spend pennies for a ticket. In their mind it's worth to pay extra for everything else as long as the ticket is almost free.

My mom flew on Ryan from London to Berlin not too long ago and she was telling me how cheap it was - about $15 she said. When I asked her if she paid any extra for her baggage, etc, she said well yeah about $35 but the ticket was sooo cheap...and I thought my mom was smart! (well, I still do!)

 

[fly4funcrj]

As long as pilots will continue to sell out other pilots, companies like this will continue to start up. They could have posted starting salaries of 40k/15k and they'd have no trouble finding help. We are our own worst enemies. Can we really blame skybus for this mess? NO, we need to blame the pilots taking the jobs.. Now....If after a few months they organize a union and raise the bar, so be it.. Unfortunately I doubt it..

 

[172driver]

The leisure traveling public could care less about the amenities that passenger carrying major airlines provide, which is one reason Southwest is so successful. Just give them a cheap seat and get them there in one piece. Anyone can suffer for a couple of hours on a plane to get where they want to go for little or no money.

I agree with you, mostly because the legacies have basically become LCC's without the LC. I probably ride around in the back as a paying passenger more than any of you and never cease to be amazed at how horrible the airline experience has become.

What amenities do the major airlines provide for the extra $200-1000 you will pay for your ticket?

A free bag of peanuts and, if you're one of the lucky few willing to ask and endure the FA's snarl, maybe a whole can of soda?

FF miles that are becoming more and more worthless by the day?

Snappy, unhelpful gate agents/FA's?

Bitter pilots that think the cheap passengers are responsible for their pay cuts?

Assigned seats that are more than likely in the middle anyway if you are a last minute, high fare, business traveller? But at least you got to go through that special screening process first...

Understaffing and overbooking that results in being stranded for days if there happens to be wx or mx problems with your flight?

Hot airplanes because the crew thinks not starting the APU will somehow buy them a raise?

The TSA experience...enough said.

I know many of you are as kind and professional as they come and even understand why some aren't, but I am increasingly disgusted by the whole painful experience of airline travel, no matter the brand. At least I know SWA will probably get me there on time and have reasonably happy employees.

Anyone wanting comfort, amenities, and to avoid the TSA will have to pony up millions for the private or fractional experience. If you can't afford it, you will ride the skybus, no matter the brand. My only consolation when airlining is that my job is very secure.

 

[HA25]

Your right, the only hope Legacies have for the domestic market is to return to full service, and REAL service.. with more seat pitch. I've used Delta recently to go international and it wasn't that bad... the service was good, and the seats were much better than the domestic cabins..

 

[CFI2766]

No flame here, but I would not underestimate the price sensitivity of the US consumer. If Skybus makes a go it (ala Ryanair's business model in Europe), it will be because they make enough revenue from tickets to just cover the cost of ACMI, and the profit margin comes from advertising and other fees.

Anyone can suffer for a couple of hours on a plane to get where they want to go for little or no money.

This is a major threat to our industry (my wife is a pilot for Delta), and if successful, every MBA from Stanford to Harvard will try to figure out how to incorporate these business practices at the majors.



Champ42272

All VERY good points. I hate it, but I think you are right. The average airline customer wants cheap before customer service.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Stews will make $9 an hour, and a comission on everything they sell---food, drinks etc. They won't be happy or friendly on empty flights!

Bye Bye--General Lee

Gee,they'll fit right in at Delta then when Skybus goes out of business!!

 

[HA25]

Gee,they'll fit right in at Delta then when Skybus goes out of business!!

The Delta FA's I had on my last flight to MXP were not only somewhat attractive (even the older ones), but VERY friendly and very interested in my comfort. Granted, I travelled on the DAY they emerged from BK, and there was a bit of excitement in the air, but time will tell if DAL becomes a formidable force in the International travel market like BA, and Lufty..

 

[Avi8tor2000]

Anyone can suffer for a couple of hours on a plane to get where they want to go for little or no money.
Champ42272

I do it everytime I fold myself in the jumpseat of an RJ. Does it suprise us that the traveling public takes advantage of the same thing?

 

[cfm56-7]

It's all about the cash

 

[AV80R]

unfortunately - Skybus WILL survive!

Champ - I agree with you and your wife. They are a major threat to our industry…

...Courtesy of the “other” site:
Skybus
· 65 new A319s on order from Airbus
· …
· Starting salary $65,000, with 4,800 stock options (vesting period under review)
· FO pay: $30,000/yr with 1,500 stock options
· …
· Business model to follow that closely of Ryanair in Europe

…and from RyanAir official website:

1997
On 29th May 1997 Ryanair becomes a public company for the first time with a successful flotation on the Dublin and NASDAQ (New York) Stock Exchanges. The shares are more than 20 times over subscribed and the share price surges from a flotation price of €11 to close at €25½ on their first day of trading. All of Ryanair's employees receive shares as part of the flotation process and at the close of the first days trading, Ryanair's employees are sitting on over €100m. worth of shares.

I’d imagine the company stock is a major reason why some Skybus pilots put up with the minimal benefits. If they succeed in copying RyanAir they all might make some serious money. All initial RyanAir employees are multi- millionaires today, of course so are all initial SWA employees.

I am not defending Skybus’ benefits –or lack of – but at the same time as much as I hate to admit it I truly believe the RyanAir concept will prevail over time. I think most passengers today have Greyhound bus mentality already and therefore all they see is the initial “low price” ticket.

As a matter of fact, with the new Open Sky agreement I predict that within the next 3-5 years you’ll see RyanAir and Skybus create a mutually owned subsidiary to begin flights between Europe and the US. Virgin Atlantic and Virgin America will do the very same thing in one way or the other.

Btw. if you say "they can't do it - it's illegal" - yeah, right - let's see, we won’t be able to fly after 60, correct? Exactly - laws can and will be changed to accommodate the trailer park, I’m sorry, the traveling public.

The major airline recovery has been aided by the fact there’s little if no competition in the international market and therefore they could get away with charging more on international flights. I think the next 5 years we’ll see several low-cost-airlines begin international flights, SWA probably being the first one to do it. I look at it as “deregulation step #2.”

Again, from a pilot’s perspective I hate it because it means that our working conditions will be getting even worst over time while our benefits will be continuously eroded. At the same time, the consumers couldn’t care any less about our working conditions and ultimately they’re the ones deciding – therefore I think Skybus will survive and that the international markets will be all LCC’s next goal.

Fire away…

 

[regionaltard]

The Skybus Rules of Flying

(A.K.A. How we keep our tickets so darn cheap.)


1. Feeling lucky? Don’t pay for industry-standard pilots.

One of the reasons that flying is statistically more than 20 times safer than driving is that airline pilots have traditionally been well-paid and competiion for these desriable jobs has allowed airlines to select the best, brightest, and most experienced to crew their planes. At Skybus, we pay our crews about half of what the lowest paid pilots in the industry are currently earning. How can we do it? We figure that increased use of automation and technology will allow us to cut some serious corners with our "drivers," paying them even less than what a real bus driver makes. That means you don't pay for skill and experience on the pointy end of the airplane that you're probably not going to need. And even if your flight on Skybus is only 5 times safer than the drive to the airport, those are still pretty good odds, right?

 

[HA25]

The Skybus Rules of Flying

(A.K.A. How we keep our tickets so darn cheap.)


1. Feeling lucky? Don’t pay for industry-standard pilots.

One of the reasons that flying is statistically more than 20 times safer than driving is that airline pilots have traditionally been well-paid and competiion for these desriable jobs has allowed airlines to select the best, brightest, and most experienced to crew their planes. At Skybus, we pay our crews about half of what the lowest paid pilots in the industry are currently earning. How can we do it? We figure that increased use of automation and technology will allow us to cut some serious corners with our "drivers," paying them even less than what a real bus driver makes. That means you don't pay for skill and experience on the pointy end of the airplane that you're probably not going to need. And even if your flight on Skybus is only 5 times safer than the drive to the airport, those are still pretty good odds, right?

it's not politically correct to say, but let's face it... to most airline managers, a pilot is just "meat in the seat" these days.. the days when you REALLY needed a good airman to get you from A to B, when you had steam gauges like the DC-9, 707's and DC-10's are long gone.. today any idiot can work a Microsoft Jet so long as all the systems are working..

 

[Cavpilot]

I'm hearing that their CAs are ex Indy Air - Anyone know for sure? Surely they could've found jobs elsewhere before this.

I know that at least a couple of ex-Indy guys left NetJets to go to Skybus. Good riddance to them.

 

[Beetle007]

ALPA should have fought for the ex-Indy guys to get their jobs at Compass (with longevity). There is no reason that Northwest should be able to buy the Indy certificate without taking the pilots. At a minumum, ALPA should have put up a fight for these guys.

If I were ex-Indy I would go to Skybus just out of spite for how they have been treated. Now it is their turn for payback.

I am against Skybus but I understand why Indy guys wouldn't give a second thought to hurting the industry.

 

[jetalc]

So it will be like Southwest and Airtran then? They will do just fine!!

Beat me to it!! (At least the Southwest part)...

 

[Gnarloooo]

Mark my words...this will be huge....just as huge as Southwest. And with its success will be the last gasp of a once prestigious and respected career. Get out while you can.