SIC check out question.

[EMBpilot]

Folks,

How does one go about a SIC check out? I fly for an airline, but I would like to get in a very, very part time corporate flying (without undercutting any one ).

I read in a few places that Part 61.55 check out, which I had a couple of years ago, is not good anymore due to the insurance reasons. I was told that people have to go through a part of the Captains class and sim training to get signed of as a SIC.

1. How long does the class + sim take and how much does it cost?
2. I assume it is offered by FlightSafety, CAE and others, right?
3. What airplane would you suggest to train in (easiest to find occasional jobs)?
4. Do the insurance policies have currency requirements for SIC's?

Thank you very much for your time.

 

[Shamus]

Some one knows betting then I but...... If you do work for a charter company, I believe the check-airmen/CP/DOO can just sign you off, other wise, you have to fill out an 8710- something and take it to your local FSDO.
Wait for other responces though, I'm not sure.

 

[MissKittyKat]

Emb, I'm going to lay on you! ( don't take it personally) people who are passionate and aggressive succeed. Take a peice of paper and answer these questions:

 

[MissKittyKat]

I got thrown off, before I had time to answer. Where do I want to be 5 five years from now? Are you willing to work with little pay, which might lead you to bigger pay and or retirement?

Do you have other investments on the side? Penny stocks? 401k?

 

[EatSleepFly]

What exactly does this have to do with the original post? Are you from this planet?

 

[bptham]

Folks,

How does one go about a SIC check out? I fly for an airline, but I would like to get in a very, very part time corporate flying (without undercutting any one ).

I read in a few places that Part 61.55 check out, which I had a couple of years ago, is not good anymore due to the insurance reasons. I was told that people have to go through a part of the Captains class and sim training to get signed of as a SIC.

1. How long does the class + sim take and how much does it cost?
2. I assume it is offered by FlightSafety, CAE and others, right?
3. What airplane would you suggest to train in (easiest to find occasional jobs)?
4. Do the insurance policies have currency requirements for SIC's?

Thank you very much for your time.


I just got a couple of SIC types from Simuflite. I can only give my experience so here goes...

1. Class lengths are dependent upon which aircraft you are getting the SIC type in. Citation II school was approximately 14 days long. That is ground and sim sessions. But, if you are in something like a G-IV, the school is about a month long.
2. Simuflite offers the SIC type in several airframes.
3. In my humble opinion, even though it means more competition for me, I would suggest the Citation 500 series SIC type. You are qualified in several aircraft and there are a lot of Citations out there. If you are a higher time pilot, maybe the citation 7 or 10 even. The 10 is one of those long schools but long school means big moolah!
4. I have absolutely no idea about insurance requirements...

I really hope this stuff helps you out. Like I said, I'm just speaking from my limited experience. Good luck...

 

[PHX767]

All together now...

God Bless Miss Kitty Kat...

She brings such joy into our lives with her posts. Always entertaining.


Penny stocks and SIC checkouts... who would have ever thought these would be related??? Ask MKK!!

 

[chrism]

I got thrown off, before I had time to answer. Where do I want to be 5 five years from now? Are you willing to work with little pay, which might lead you to bigger pay and or retirement?

Do you have other investments on the side? Penny stocks? 401k?

WTF is wrong with this board? Kitty, Lollie, and every other straggler has absolutely ruined the QUALITY of info that used to grace this board. The name of this website is flightINFO.com--I stress the INFO part of this. One of the defintions of "information" is: knowledge acquired through study or experience or instruction. Why is there an open door here to anybody and everybody who knows Jack Schit about absolutely NOTHING?? Maybe I'm the one that needs to be booted here, but can someone PLEASE direct me to the "Part 91 or Part 91/135 Corporate Pilot Board"?? Did I miss a memo or something? Did Myspace.com start linking to Flightinfo.com???? Where are all the CORPORATE PILOTS???????????????

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

Look, we all know MissKittyKat is confused. That's why none of us ever pay any attention to her. Oh, sometimes she has her 6 year old daugher post something for her that makes sense, but otherwise...you'll only end up confused too.

Now back to the initial question:

If I were you I would get a CE-500 sign off. That qualifies you for the Citation I, II, SII, Bravo, Ultra, Encore. There a hundreds and hunderds of them out there.

Get an FOM and study up...then you can go to any one of the many training providers out there for a 2 or 3 day recurrent "pro card". And yes, being simulator current will help you get some contract work, as it's usually and insurance requirement.

The down side is that the contract rates on this are pretty low for SIC...mabye $300/day on average depending on the region.

Good Luck!

 

[bptham]

Yeah, but $300/day is pretty darn good for a 1000 hour nobody!;-)

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

Who said he was a 1000 hour nobody? Did I miss that?

 

[bptham]

No, me. I'm the 1000 hour nobody. $300/day on the citation is what I've been pulling down.

 

[stratman560]

Folks,

How does one go about a SIC check out? I fly for an airline, but I would like to get in a very, very part time corporate flying (without undercutting any one ).

I read in a few places that Part 61.55 check out, which I had a couple of years ago, is not good anymore due to the insurance reasons. I was told that people have to go through a part of the Captains class and sim training to get signed of as a SIC.

1. How long does the class + sim take and how much does it cost?
2. I assume it is offered by FlightSafety, CAE and others, right?
3. What airplane would you suggest to train in (easiest to find occasional jobs)?
4. Do the insurance policies have currency requirements for SIC's?

Thank you very much for your time.

I agree with the above posters who said CE-500....most versatile and covers a ton of aircraft! Also, if your just looking for a little something on the side, I used to fly contract for an operator who flew a C525. All of their main pilots had the single pilot type but their insurance required a right seat guy when they were on company business regardless. Worked out well for me, you didn't have to go through CAE or FSI, it was all in-house. Little bit less moolah than the aircraft that require an SIC produced by a structured groundschool/sim like the C550 or C560 but it was still a good way to break into the corporate flying scene. Good luck.

 

[moonlight]

SIC Checkout: Gear handle up, gear handle down. Otherwise, clap your hands so I know that you're not touching anything else. Congrats, you're an SIC...

 

[EMBpilot]

Price and 91 vs. 135.

Thank you so much every one.

How about pricing? Say CE-500, how much would SIC class + sim cost?

Also, guys, I looked through some courses schedules and it says "Part 135" or "Part 91" training, for the same airplanes, same kind of training i.e. initial. What exactly be the outcome/limitations in job hunting after completing one or the other?
Or does it even matter for SIC's?

Thanks

 

[Pilot_Ryan]

I'm a little nervous about all your price-related questions. You don't intend to part with your money in the process of getting some side work, I hope? You don't pay for your training, your employer does. Or should. Don't deal with bottom dwellers. If they're worth working for, they'll train you.

 

[EMBpilot]

Ryan,

Thanks for the nervousness and consideration. I couldn't agree with you more when we are talking about a job.
However, when I mention the word "part time" with "a trip every 3-4 months for fun" no employer wants to train me.

I don't have any plans to work for less than what it's worth and only on my schedule.

Thanks again.

 

[G100driver]

WTF is wrong with this board? Kitty, Lollie, and every other straggler has absolutely ruined the QUALITY of info that used to grace this board. The name of this website is flightINFO.com--I stress the INFO part of this. One of the defintions of "information" is: knowledge acquired through study or experience or instruction. Why is there an open door here to anybody and everybody who knows Jack Schit about absolutely NOTHING?? Maybe I'm the one that needs to be booted here, but can someone PLEASE direct me to the "Part 91 or Part 91/135 Corporate Pilot Board"?? Did I miss a memo or something? Did Myspace.com start linking to Flightinfo.com???? Where are all the CORPORATE PILOTS???????????????

Did you try www.propilotworld.com ?

 

[CapnVegetto]

CE-500 SIC initial at Simuflite is $14,300. 10 days long. Tack on hotel, food, and rental car for the time you're there.

Once you pass your ride, you have a CE-500 SIC type, which is good for the 500, 501, 550, and 560. You have to go to the sim at least once a year to remain current in an insurance company's eyes. Recurrent course is either 4 or 5 days, and $7,500 bucks.

If you've got your ATP, spring for the PIC type, (about $2,000 bucks more). If you've only got a commercial, don't waste your money. You can wipe your butt with a commercial type, but that's about it.

Now for the problems.......time reqirements. Most companies that require SIC's have pretty strict time requirements to sit in the seat, most of the time, time in type is required. The only way around this is to get you 'named' on the insurance policy, which a lot of the time involves an increase in premiums. The open pilot policy time requirements on our jet for the SIC is 1,500 TT 500 ME, 100 in type, sim within the last year. Most of the time, everything is easy to come by except the time in type and school requirement. I know that our insurance company wouldn't even consider anyone for either seat that wasn't sim current. Most companies will opt to not mess with it. PIC is even worse.

135 companies are a different ballgame. For them, you have to have company specific training, and a ton of paperwork filled out by them. Again, this cost THEM money, which most of the time they're not going to be willing to pay for in the situation you're describing.

In the end, if you were to go to initial, it'd end up costing you about about $16,500 bucks. If you do the math, that means that at $300 bucks a day (good contract SIC rate), you'd have to fly about 55 days just to make up your training costs. IF you could find work. And that is BEFORE Uncle Sam gets his share.

Bottom line, it's your money. If you want to waste it, be my guest. But I can promise you, there isn't a whole lotta work for part timer regional FO's in the corporate world unless you know the right people. Most companies have full time guys, and the ones that don't have a pool of 'regulars' that they pull from. In 4 months, at our two-man flight dept. we haven't needed a contract SIC. We just don't fly enough to warrent it. Only time we would need one would be due to illness or emergency, and even then, the first guy I'm calling will the be the guy I know I can rely on the most.....not someone that would be ultra part time, "just for fun."

There's my take.

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

He didn't say anything at all about getting typed. He want's an SIC endorsement that will make the insureance guys happy. Try this place, the guy running it is an old SumuFlite guy:

http://www.prestosim.com/