Shuttle/Chautauqua Integration Official

[Skull1]

To the Chautauqua, Republic, and Shuttle America Pilots (E170, SF340)

For the hard critics,

The facts are all stated, eventhough some were slightly inaccurate, but nonetheless, the judgement has been made. Let's push forward from this and move on.

What will prolonged this animosity and the strains of everyone, are those few folks (Flying Horses) who thinks public humiliation and negative criticism should be view by everyone. Granted, the judgement can be viewed in the union's website, do you believe this will enlighten your ego or you just lack common sense, or maybe lack sensitivity. If you have hard-on against the Old Shuttle America Saab drivers, please say it to them/to me and not hide about it.

We are now one as a whole. Only idiots like yourself would chastice those who are down. This is totally inappropriate and unwaranted. We all need to move on and focus on the well-being of our families--like many of us.

The more this is brought up and charactized of what should be, what was, and who should have been, the more this will not end. Instead of critizing the Old Shuttlecraft crew, why don't you welcome them/us to the IBT747 and let a precedence of comarade prevail.

Don't be stupid!

Let's move on and move on from this in-house drama and stop posting company and union stuff.

 

[Flying Horses]

Skull1,

I have no intention of public humiliation. I am not chastising anyone who is down. I am, however, posting pure facts based on public information (http://www.ibt747.org/airlines/chq/chq-index.htmlhttp://www.ibt747.org). It shows how a pilot integration is done; I believe this is very informative to all airline pilots. Now, everyone in this flightinfo community who has been commenting/speculating on this integration can know the facts/truth.

P.S. I did edit my third post to remove any personal opinions, and to keep my postings purely factual.

 

[FandE]

For those of you saying the ex-Captains at "old shuttle" are going to be pay protected, could you please provide a source. I'm one of the guys looking at a $35,000 a year pay swing from what I thought I was going to get and a $15-20,000 a year pay cut from what I am currently making as a captain. Niether my union nor my company has said I am getting pay and longevity protection. I would think if this were the case my union would tell me before your union tells you. A little good news here is needed, so I doubt our reps would hide it from us. I don't see the company offering up extra money to us just to be nice.

For those of you that actually care about us, don't be relieved yet. For those of you that are upset your upgrade is delayed a little while I take a substantial pay cut and try to sell my house...I'm sorry for your troubles.

 

[The Drizzle]

Being a pilot is great isn't it? Just like the brochure said.

 

[aewanabe]

For those of you saying the ex-Captains at "old shuttle" are going to be pay protected, could you please provide a source. I'm one of the guys looking at a $35,000 a year pay swing from what I thought I was going to get and a $15-20,000 a year pay cut from what I am currently making as a captain. Niether my union nor my company has said I am getting pay and longevity protection. I would think if this were the case my union would tell me before your union tells you. A little good news here is needed, so I doubt our reps would hide it from us. I don't see the company offering up extra money to us just to be nice.

For those of you that actually care about us, don't be relieved yet. For those of you that are upset your upgrade is delayed a little while I take a substantial pay cut and try to sell my house...I'm sorry for your troubles.

F and E:
We're being told on the IBT 747 forums that previous SAAB captains will be pay protected. You better get this quick if you're gonna stick around the merged "Reshuttlequa": there IS no "my union/your union". As of now we're ALL part of local 747. Welcome aboard.

 

[SF340Guy]

Since 747 is now my union, how do I get on the message board, or private section of the web site? Please don't take this as trying to pick a fight, I really need to know. I have questions for them, but I have no way of asking.

 

[sleddriver77]

Unfortunately, you cannot until you're a dues paying memebr of the 747, and verified by the "keeper" of the board. I'm not sure when the "official" transition to the 747 is for you guys. Welcome aboard, and feel free to PM if I can try to be of any help with Q's. FWIW, our information from the message board is that all former capts are pay protected at SAAB capt pay til 170 upgrade, and SAAB FO's recieve the longevity pay they are entitled to at "Old" Shuttle, but on the CHQ payscale.

 

[TraneOfThought]

As of right now no one knows and I mean NO ONE knows if were pay protected and to post our ruling on front street really wasnt neccessary. All those who wanted or needed to know what the verdict was could easily find out on their own. As far as the animosity aspect its real hard pressed for folks just to "Move On" Granted we have to move foward but thats an extremely huge pill to swallow. i.e Paycuts, etc.. etc...

I understand that 747 wanted its "own" to have the best but how the decision went down was foul to say the least all of this for 85 pilots WOW.

 

[sleddriver77]

I understand that 747 wanted its "own" to have the best but how the decision went down was foul to say the least all of this for 85 pilots WOW.

It ain't a good decision unless NOBODY is happy, right? While I see where you guys are coming from, we also have a lot of guys BELOW you who are on their second, third or FOURTH airline who just got moved down 90 spots. Believe me, THEY ain't happy about it either. IMHO, you guys ended up about where you should have on the list condisdering you didn't bring any airplanes with you. Had the airplanes come over as well, this woulda been an entirly different ballgame. (And don't gimme any sh!t about the certificate. There are more than a few out and available.) Happy, not happy, whatever; sincerely, WELCOME. I'm sure you will find the pilots of the 747 to be a great group of folks, and with the exception of a few really pissed off and really junior CHQ FO's, we're all glad to have you with us. They probably will be too, in time.

 

[sleddriver77]

FWIW, our information from the message board is that all former capts are pay protected at SAAB capt pay til 170 upgrade, and SAAB FO's recieve the longevity pay they are entitled to at "Old" Shuttle, but on the CHQ payscale.

Apparently, this information was NOT accurate. Not sure what the deal is. FWIW, most of the CHQ pilots ARE in favor of pay protection and longevity pay as appropriate for Shuttle SAAB pilots.

 

[Cardinal]

There should be some consolation in this for the Shuttlecraft pilots.

I'm a captain at an all turboprop regional. Myself and a number of pilots in both seats at my airline have applied to the RAH family. The pilots I interviewed with at RAH were almost exclusively flying turboprops under Part 121. Myself and all these other pilots think that RAH is such a good deal that we are willing to give up years an years of seniority to join your team. We're willing to surrender our captains seats and regress to being first officers again. Voluntarily.

Through fortuitous events your little airline got purchased, and you've ended up thrown on the CHQ list at various places, with the majority of your pilot group months, not years, from upgrade. Change is always hard, but consider this: Many of us who are flying at airlines not very different from yours would sell our own mothers to have been thrust into the seniority list where you ended up. We're so convinced that your future is bright, that we're willing to start at the bottom. See you on the line.

 

[brew3departure]

Tindriver72 et al...

Why is NOBODY talking about what Habib said earlier?

Tindriver - I understand your frustration, but the truth lies somewhere in the middle, right? I don't have a clue what went on during the merger talks -- we heard a lot of banter from both sides...but if, in fact, 12:1 was offered before it went to arbitration, get mad at your EC and the people making the decisions for Local 264. If someone can back up the fact that it (12:1) was offered, your anger should be directed at your union leadership. Not ours.

That being said, it's all in the past and back to reality. I wish no animosity or ill will towards any -- everyone knew it was a gamble going to arbitration. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback, but maybe someone who knows can interject about "playing nicely."

People are getting screwed here, no question about it. If you really want to get down to it, though, it wasn't up to you or me...when the courts get involved, it's really never a good thing, is it?

-brew3

 

[I.P. Freley]

It ain't a good decision unless NOBODY is happy, right?

Well, certainly nobody at Shuttle America is happy about it, except perhaps the people at the very bottom of the SA list, who are losing essentially nothing and are going to have the same relative seniority they had when they got hired. Also unhappy, and rightly so, are the present CHQ pilots who populate the 900-1000 numbers (or thereabouts) on the old list, knowing that they take the worst hit of anyone on the pre-integration list.

Happier than a pig in his own filth are the top 900 people on the old CHQ list, for whom everything stays exactly the same.

And they shouldn't be happy about it. This deal just plain stinks on many levels... The top 2/3 of the previously-existing CHQ list are totally unaffected by this decision (!!!), and the lower 1/3 take it in the shorts. The guys/gals below the spot where the SA captains are being slotted are REALLY in a position to be angry! You've gotta really feel for the first person on the old CHQ list after where those captains are going... Magically having 45 (give or take) people appear IMMEDIATELY above them on the list (no piont in spreading them out over a larger portion of the list, that's CRAZY TALK!!). Of course, go another 200 spots on down and now it's 70 people, which really isn't all that different, but WOW.

Of course I'm sure it never occurred to you that any of the SA people are on their second, third, fourth airline themselves, or at least they are NOW... And that many who are still there (not to mention former pilots that gave up and left, myself included) put up with a lot of garbage at SA, gambling that the payoff would be that they'd "do something" with the company, much like they did with CHQ back in the day. For those that worked their tails off under some of the worst conditions imaginable, for relatively meager pay, under threats of closure and honest-to-God pay cuts, hoping that there was going to be a light at the end of the tunnel, this is a kick in the teeth.

IMHO, you guys ended up about where you should have on the list condisdering you didn't bring any airplanes with you.

No, they didn't end up "where (they) should have". When captains (some with six or more years in the left seat at Shuttle America) become FO's with 175 places between them and the most junior captain on the master list (and his/her whopping 18 months of company experience before upgrade), they most certainly didn't end up where they should've.

Had the airplanes come over as well, this woulda been an entirly different ballgame.

Does this mean that you are going to happily offer all the plum spots on the seniority list to MDA pilots if and when the MDA pilots come on over to RAH? 747 fought to keep FELLOW TEAMSTERS at the bottom of the list, why are you going to smile and wave the ALPA MDA people on by if they come with their airplanes?

(And don't gimme any sh!t about the certificate. There are more than a few out and available.)

Care to clue us all in on this raft full o' certs that are floating around, waiting to be bought, for a measly million dollars and a smile and a nod from the FAA? Do you SERIOUSLY believe that buying a certificate is that easy? Were you paying attention to how long it took the Republic certificate to be approved?

Overall, I guess I'm not totally surprised that the SA people got screwed... I'm just surprised at how BADLY they were screwed... And at how readily the bottom 1/3 of the old CHQ list were screwed, for that matter. Gotta love the Teamsters, and gotta love 747 most of all. I know it's not the individual pilots (mostly) that campaigned for this, and in the end it was an arbitrator that made the final decision, but it's absolutely HEARTBREAKING to see what a filthy end this has come to.

 

[Mike man]

Originally Posted by sleddriver77
Had the airplanes come over as well, this woulda been an entirly different ballgame.

Does this mean that you are going to happily offer all the plum spots on the seniority list to MDA pilots if and when the MDA pilots come on over to RAH? 747 fought to keep FELLOW TEAMSTERS at the bottom of the list, why are you going to smile and wave the ALPA MDA people on by if they come with their airplanes?

When you buy a used car the previous owners don't come with the car...do they?

 

[tindriver72]

...but if, in fact, 12:1 was offered before it went to arbitration, get mad at your EC and the people making the decisions for Local 264. If someone can back up the fact that it (12:1) was offered, your anger should be directed at your union leadership. Not ours.


-brew3

I have not heard either way, but I find it very hard to imagine that a 12:1 was offered, let alone turned down. If it was, then the SA Mec is probably to blame. It is quite improbable that is was actually offered.

I just don't understand some peoples devotion to the notion that THEY PERSONALLY RESCUED all the shuttle pilots from certain doom, and, because of said rescue, mearly deserve to see the bottom of the list, regardless of there time put in.

Flip the scenerio around. Imagine shuttle was chq, and you just got stuck on the bottom of the list after putting in 7 years???

Just makes no sense to me.