Should my buddy leave CAL for UPS?

[Non Union]

Which airline has better long term prospects for upgrading to Captain and making the big bucks?

Isn't CAL losing like 50% of their Captains in the next few years?

UPS has hardly any retirements on the horizon. No?

 

[AAflyer]

It is totally up to him. At some point in all of our careers' we should stop trying for the next best thing and be happy where we are.
That said I had a buddy of mine do that in 88. He got on the front side of all of UPS airlines hiring. It worked for him. The situation at CO was a little different back then as well. CO has a great group of people that actually like the pilot group whereas UPS think that they do not need pilots to operate the company.

Bingo! I wouldn't dispute that Fed Ex and UPS look great, but so did UAL,DAL, AA, US, and CAL back in the late 90s. WHo knows, do I think the freight companies will do a nose dive in the near future. NO! But no is immune to anything. At some point if you are happy and at a "good" company (boy, does that word lend itself to many different descriptions!)

None of us will know till the end how we did. There will be many valleys and peeks.

Good Luck to your friend, still a desirable position to be in. Some may never receive a response from either company.

AAflyer

 

[deceptibum]

I'm in class now at CAL and all the charts and instructors have showed us that the next 3 years are going to be the biggest movement. 25% of the active captains now on property leave within the next 3 years. All assuming they are leaving at age 60.

 

[taxicabdriver]

I'd leave CAL in a heartbeat, but I'm only 4 months into it

 

[Howard Hughes]

Open Skies could change this industry in ways even the CEO's dont understand yet until they say "woe, didnt think about that little loophole". This could affect the pax airlines or cargo just the same for better or for worse. Cargo has FE's that could go back to pilot possibly slowing things down even further for the main positions. I wouldnt be at all suprised with open skies if some european cargo haulers startups move in on the "legacy cargo" ops in the US. Just too hard to tell right now. I WILL say dont make your predictions on the exact situation as it exists at this second in time....historicaly that has never worked in the airline biz. Good luck to your friend.

 

[Whine Lover]

"I have a "friend" who is currently married with a job at Starbucks but thinks he would like to make more money slurping penis on a street corner? What should he do....?"


WHY, in God's name, are you people responding to this obvious flame bait?



YKW

 

[pkober]

"I have a "friend" who is currently married with a job at Starbucks but thinks he would like to make more money slurping penis on a street corner? What should he do....?"


WHY, in God's name, are you people responding to this obvious flame bait?



YKW

He needs to look at who has better long term security and medical insurance.:laugh:

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Retirements--That can change very quickly

Fleet growth--That can change very quickly

Business model and company financial position-- This would be my focus

CAL-Decent finances but in a turbulent, low margin industry

UPS-Extremely sound finances in a currently stable, higher margin industry


Open skies may hurt cargo, but I think it is more likely to have a negative impact on pax carriers. May even be good for UPS and Fedex.

If you think DHL, TNT or FedEx are threatening UPS, you should stay at CAL. Overall, I say there is room for 4 dominant cargo companies. Just don't expect a fast upgrade and move to your domicile. Reserve lines are likely in your immediate and midterm future.

If your spouse works and you want to take a shot at a quicker upgrade with more long term risk, go CAL.

 

[AV80R]

He should go to UPS if he wants to ruin his life. Are you kidding me? How many pilots has UPS hired in the last 5 years? maybe 350. How much has their fleet grown? Try none. I think they have fewer airplanes now then they did 5 years ago. He would be junior forever at UPS. It doesn't get any worse than being junior at UPS

Jhill - don't be so bitter - you just weren't cut out for the job, that's all...

 

[AV80R]

However, most of the cargo guys I've met seem to be old beyond their years from the time changes and back of the clock flying.

Totally disagree. It’s exactly what I’d been hearing for years when I used to fly passengers. Now that I’ve done both, passenger and cargo flying, I can personally attest that the flying is very similar on both ends. There’s plenty of day flying at cargo outfits as well but most of all – I think “aging early” has more to do with genetics, not staying in shape and eating junk food than anything else.

What I see is guys and gals who try to stay in shape, work out on their layovers and who seem to be enjoying their lives. Surely I’ve seen some tired folks here but I saw tired pilots at my previous pax carriers too. Like I said, it’s entirely my own opinion but I believe the notion of cargo pilots being “old beyond their years” is a myth. You’ll see those pilots on the passenger and the cargo side and most of the time it has to do with self-induced premature aging.

Also, how does constant fear of furloughs, mergers, bankruptcies, losing pension plans, etc. affect pilots' aging “beyond their years”?

Just something to consider. Fire away…

 

[capt. megadeth]

He should go to UPS if he wants to ruin his life.

Nevermind....I forgot I addressed this dufus already a while ago.

 

[The Victors]

go to UPS without questions!!! It's a no brainer. Just look at the history of each company. cal pilots talk about the great things to come a year or 2 from now. Have things ever been great at cal in terms of job security and pay? The career today is all about job security and it's with, and always has been, cargo.

 

[Networ-King]

Just recently had an 18 year NWA Captain start with UPS.....that's gotta say something......

As for the uninformed people saying things about the back of the clock and time zone changes (Like CAL doesn't fly international) don't listen to these guys. Ignorance is bliss and idiot thats have no clue give out bad info. I got recalled to Delta and bypassed and haven't even looked back. My buddy just went back and he's flying 80 to 90 hours a month hard time and bitchin up a storm. To each his own I guess.....has your buddy ever been furloughed? Where does he want to live or commute to? Be based? How much money does he want to make?

Upgrades and movement? Both have good career progression, but I can tell you first hand that the left seat at UPS in ANC is around 4 years and with a little extra flying (400 to 500) hours a year working the system you can clear 300K... thats on the low side and 4th year pay. Not bad if you ask me, but its not for everyone. With the like of skybus(who res), VA, MaxJet, EOS, and all the new douc hebag airlines that'll start up tomorrow..... you have to think about stability more than the "childhood" dream of flying pax across the pond. Thats my take on it..... the whole starting over, getting furloughed, mergers, bankruptcies ... blah blah blah... UPS and FEDEX are not the end all be all, but more stable than any other flying job out there. Good luck to your friend....


and for all you informed pilots that only think of night flying when you think UPS and FEDEX.....

the only decent airline out there I can think of that does not do all nighters is Southwest....
and remember... I said decent airline not a pos start up. And let not get started about the idiot that posted the multi time zone changes, cause that CAL 777 going from IAH to LGW always... always...... stays in the same time zone and flies only during the day .

 

[CKJET]

I would stay at CAL, EWR is an easy commute from just about anywhere. ANC can be a real pain.

I have been on both sides and even though the boxes don't talk back, I do miss the FA's and the pax from time to time.

At some point you need to just be happy where you are and accept it. Right seat in 777 and not working much is a pretty good gig.

 

[pkober]

Don't listen to anyone on this board. Talk to your family and come up with a plan on your own.

Good luck.

 

[whatitdoing?]

Well, I have 6 more months till my probation year is over at CAL. I have to admit, getting through your probation year is harder than I thought. Luckly, I have a supportive family and a wonderful wife. Also, I REALIZED I NEEDED TO SAVE MONEY to get through my first year, so that's what I did. If you plan it right, it's not a big deal. But, with that said, I don't have a huge amount of debt and no kids. So, if I'm having a hard time with my first year, I can't imagine how it would be for someone with a family. I think I'll get an offer soon for UPS, but I'm not too sure if I'd go. My wife and I just moved up to the Northeast and love it. I just decided to be happy with where I am and to stop trying to make the "best" decision. After awhile, you have to stick with something and stay. If you want to go to UPS, fine.....if CAL, fine. Who really cares!! If you and your family are happy, that's all that matters. Either place, you'll make good money. Enjoy your family........

 

[Fox-Tree]

I was saying as a 2nd year FO at FedEX, you can make 128 an hour. You have two options for this:

One: Go to SFS (available as a new hire almost always)
Two: Go to ANC (was available as a hire option for a while, also available as a quick bid out of the FE seat)

Takes a LONG time to make that money at CAL.

Not sure about UPS though, and since this is a CAL and UPS thread, I apologize for hijacking it with FedEX stuff.

I smell a poser here. The first thing you said was:

So far, W2 wise, I definitely did the right thing. (128 an hour currently, vs the 65 an hour I would be making at CAL)

First you're making 2nd year wide-body pay after 6 months. Now suddenly you're talking what a 2nd year FO could make. I thought you were happy with your current W-2.

Also, if you were really at Fedex, you'd know we don't have "quick bids out of the FE seat". It's been well over a year since our last bid. Anyone hired into the back of the 727 since Jan 2006 (supposedly a year before you) - is still there unless they traded training dates with someone.

Dude, give it up - you're not fooling anyone.

Want to redeem yourself in case I'm totally off base.... What's the title of the latest Airbus FCIF dated 6/29/07.

 

[Phaedrus]

Fox-Tree: Right on, right on.

HIRED in 2007??? dude your not at 128 an hour till year 2 pay... and right seat in the bus is what you have listed? We havent hired anyone except a couple Subic guys into the bus...

The last Subic, right seat, newhire was in my class in Aug 2006.
Delusional.

 

[AV80R]

Airbus FCIF?

Want to redeem yourself in case I'm totally off base.... What's the title of the latest Airbus FCIF dated 6/29/07.

Fox-Tree – I’m not purple but may I take a guess? Please??

Is it:

Airbus FCIF "RUDDER USE FOR DUMMIES" (“dummies” a.k.a. “pilots” in Aibus lingo) 6/29/07

Am I right?

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

Please let me debunk the myth that only cargo carriers do all that night flying. I just got back from a 3-day Paris on the 767. On Monday night we took off from EWR at 100 pm and landed around 4:30 am (eastern time). We got to the hotel around 6:30 am (eastern time) and I napped for 3 hours. I walked around the city and took a boat ride on the Seine. Went to bed over there around 10 am (700 pm eastern time) and woke up around 8:30 am (2:30 am eastern time). We flew back after a 9:20 flight arriving back in EWR around 500 pm. I got about a half hour of sleep on my break in flight. I'm beat. I've slept about 10 1/2 hours in the last 48 hours. To make things even better I have another 3-day to Oslo tomorrow night doing a very similar type schedule. I'm just tired thinking about it. Europe is great and all but the international flying is all at night. So please don't believe only the cargo carriers fly at night. Let that myth die now.

 

[Fox-Tree]

Fox-Tree – I’m not purple but may I take a guess? Please??

Is it:

Airbus FCIF "RUDDER USE FOR DUMMIES" (“dummies” a.k.a. “pilots” in Aibus lingo) 6/29/07

Am I right?

No. I'd think an FCIF with that title would have come out in say....Oct 2001, wouldn't you say?

If this guy really is Fedex, he should be able to find it in about 1 minute on the pilot web site. He shouldn't have to guess.

 

[Phaedrus]

In another thread (Hong Kong LOA) he--propjob--has a lot of CBA information so it could be that he's just bowing out his chest a little. Still, don't know how he thought he could get that one past...

 

[AV80R]

No. I'd think an FCIF with that title would have come out in say....Oct 2001, wouldn't you say?

- True, that's when it should have come out. But I think by then they were still busy looking for someone to blame the accident on. Sorry if my busphobia is too obvious. The french do make nice tires (Michelin) - does that count?

If this guy really is Fedex, he should be able to find it in about 1 minute on the pilot web site. He shouldn't have to guess.

- Very true

 

[AV80R]

Please let me debunk the myth that only cargo carriers do all that night flying. I just got back from a 3-day Paris on the 767....

Wow, didn't know Skywest flies 767s nowadays...

 

[brownie]

how did u come up with 4 yrs since the most jr anc capt was hired in 2000.....

As for the uninformed people saying things about the back of the clock and time zone changes (Like CAL doesn't fly international) don't listen to these guys. Ignorance is bliss and idiot thats have no clue give out bad info. I got recalled to Delta and bypassed and haven't even looked back. My buddy just went back and he's flying 80 to 90 hours a month hard time and bitchin up a storm. To each his own I guess.....has your buddy ever been furloughed? Where does he want to live or commute to? Be based? How much money does he want to make?

Upgrades and movement? Both have good career progression, but I can tell you first hand that the left seat at UPS in ANC is around 4 years and with a little extra flying (400 to 500) hours a year working the system you can clear 300K... thats on the low side and 4th year pay. Not bad if you ask me, but its not for everyone. With the like of skybus(who res), VA, MaxJet, EOS, and all the new douc hebag airlines that'll start up tomorrow..... you have to think about stability more than the "childhood" dream of flying pax across the pond. Thats my take on it..... the whole starting over, getting furloughed, mergers, bankruptcies ... blah blah blah... UPS and FEDEX are not the end all be all, but more stable than any other flying job out there. Good luck to your friend....


and for all you informed pilots that only think of night flying when you think UPS and FEDEX.....

the only decent airline out there I can think of that does not do all nighters is Southwest....
and remember... I said decent airline not a pos start up. And let not get started about the idiot that posted the multi time zone changes, cause that CAL 777 going from IAH to LGW always... always...... stays in the same time zone and flies only during the day .[/quote]

 

[Networ-King]

how did u come up with 4 yrs since the most jr anc capt was hired in 2000.....

Brownie,

I understand that.....

Don't forget that UPS didn't hire from 2001 till the end of 2004. Thats a huge gap for this pilot group. With all the new positions and planes MD11 left seat is going to reach 4 to 5 year guys. Now with the sim mishap and training all screwed up.... this might stretch it out a bit more. A buddy of mine in the nov 18th class is only 200 numbers from MD11 ANC Capt. slot. With all the guys settled in their cushy scheds and waiting for the state side upgrade, it will go that junior. IMO its still a better deal than CAL, but thats just me......

 

[Pocono Pilot]

God, I would love to fly the whale for UPS.

That is the career for me.

 

[Scrapdog]

I agree.

With all the retirements, CAL could be the most secure major out there. Also, there is a good chance that CAL will be the highest paid eventually with a new contract.

I hope to be there soon.

God, I would love to fly the whale for UPS.

That is the career for me.

Obviously no comment needed.

 

[Phaedrus]

Perhaps MPD.

 

[BID]

I smell a poser here. The first thing you said was:



First you're making 2nd year wide-body pay after 6 months. Now suddenly you're talking what a 2nd year FO could make. I thought you were happy with your current W-2.

Also, if you were really at Fedex, you'd know we don't have "quick bids out of the FE seat". It's been well over a year since our last bid. Anyone hired into the back of the 727 since Jan 2006 (supposedly a year before you) - is still there unless they traded training dates with someone.

Dude, give it up - you're not fooling anyone.

Want to redeem yourself in case I'm totally off base.... What's the title of the latest Airbus FCIF dated 6/29/07.

Dude, I know the guy, he is at Fed Ex. Now back to the subject.

I think the number one issue is quality of life. I would not chase the $, just my thought. At CAL our quality of life has taken a big hit, yes POS PBS. I hope it gets better, we will see.

You want job security, get people below you, that helps. but I think people will respect what you decide, in the end it is your life. Good luck!

Oh BTW, I really like it at CAL, and I have high hopes for a great contract.