Should my buddy leave CAL for UPS?

[propjob27]

What did you say?? All I heard was $128/hr as a new hire (Jan 07) and nothing else.
WD.

I was saying as a 2nd year FO at FedEX, you can make 128 an hour. You have two options for this:

One: Go to SFS (available as a new hire almost always)
Two: Go to ANC (was available as a hire option for a while, also available as a quick bid out of the FE seat)

Takes a LONG time to make that money at CAL.

Not sure about UPS though, and since this is a CAL and UPS thread, I apologize for hijacking it with FedEX stuff.

 

[Aviator7576]

And you think the EWR commute is bad, try commuting to the PI for your trips. If you started Fedex in Jan '07, you're still on first year pay. So you're not making 128/hr. It's always nice to look ahead, but you got almost a year before you make those bucks.

Aviator7576

 

[Wiskey Driver]

And you think the EWR commute is bad, try commuting to the PI for your trips. If you started Fedex in Jan '07, you're still on first year pay. So you're not making 128/hr. It's always nice to look ahead, but you got almost a year before you make those bucks.

Aviator7576

I was saying as a 2nd year FO at FedEX, you can make 128 an hour. You have two options for this:

One: Go to SFS (available as a new hire almost always)
Two: Go to ANC (was available as a hire option for a while, also available as a quick bid out of the FE seat)

Takes a LONG time to make that money at CAL.

Not sure about UPS though, and since this is a CAL and UPS thread, I apologize for hijacking it with FedEX stuff.
__________________
The Betty Cat says, "You puss y."

Fellas, I can't seem to hear a thing other than $128/hr as a new hire!! My ears are still ringing with that.lol

Thanks guys, I am sure he meant some other time other than new hire.

WD

 

[GogglesPisano]

I apologize in advance because I do not fly for either airline but would really like to fly for one (only one.)

First, I think "NON UNION" should reveal a lot about the poster "who has a friend" with 2 job offers. This whole thread is based on flamebait of the most blatant flavor.

Second, assuming for a split-second that it isn't flamebait, how could someone not find the answer to this question in their own heart? There is a big difference between flying for a traditional legacy and a big cargo carrier. They both have their pro's and con's. If you're a pure, non-emotional, Mr Spock speadsheet kind of guy you simply look at payscales and job security and the obvious choice is UPS. If you're still trying to fulfill your childhood dream of flying widebodies across the pond for a traditional carrier (ala Pan Am/TWA) the obvious choice is CAL (merger rumors be danged!)

If one is lucky enough to be have 2 job offers (ie "competetive" -- ie "experienced") how can anyone not know which type of pilot they are at this stage in their careers?

Pure flamebait.



PS: Flying cargo is not for everyone! And money does notbuy happiness

 

[Clyde]

.....

 

[AlbieF15]

Not really. I've helped several guys who left CAL for UPS and FedEx. One was a Texan...living in Houston. Tough choice but the stability in the business was attractive to him. I'm sure he's happy--but he also probably looks at the CAL 777s when he's commuting back and forth too....

 

[capt. megadeth]

He should go to UPS if he wants to ruin his life. Are you kidding me? How many pilots has UPS hired in the last 5 years? maybe 350. How much has their fleet grown? Try none. I think they have fewer airplanes now then they did 5 years ago. He would be junior forever at UPS. It doesn't get any worse than being junior at UPS

Ruin his life?

Ok dramaqueen.

 

[727C47]

ups !!

 

[whymeworry?]

A buddy of mine was in the very same predicament.

He interviewed and was put in to the pool before he got hired at CAL. Right after he finished his one-year CAL bootcamp, UPS calls. He wrangled with this decision for weeks ultimately deciding to stay at CAL.

Personally, I think he was crazy for not choosing UPS. Sure CAL will get better in time but it will take us years to catch up with UPS. All that said, getting through the first year at CAL is tough (pay, no med, proby pilot reports, etc). I think he just didn't want to go through that marathon yet another time in his career. He was 40 at the time of the decision 6 mos ago.

The whole first-year thing in this career is demeaning to the profession, but that's another thread.

If your friend can handle it, I would go with UPS.

 

[LJDRVR]

Your friend is senior to me, he should definitely leave.

Seriously, it really doesn't matter which one, either airline will provide him with a good career.

 

[Non Union]

Which airline has better long term prospects for upgrading to Captain and making the big bucks?

Isn't CAL losing like 50% of their Captains in the next few years?

UPS has hardly any retirements on the horizon. No?

 

[AAflyer]

It is totally up to him. At some point in all of our careers' we should stop trying for the next best thing and be happy where we are.
That said I had a buddy of mine do that in 88. He got on the front side of all of UPS airlines hiring. It worked for him. The situation at CO was a little different back then as well. CO has a great group of people that actually like the pilot group whereas UPS think that they do not need pilots to operate the company.

Bingo! I wouldn't dispute that Fed Ex and UPS look great, but so did UAL,DAL, AA, US, and CAL back in the late 90s. WHo knows, do I think the freight companies will do a nose dive in the near future. NO! But no is immune to anything. At some point if you are happy and at a "good" company (boy, does that word lend itself to many different descriptions!)

None of us will know till the end how we did. There will be many valleys and peeks.

Good Luck to your friend, still a desirable position to be in. Some may never receive a response from either company.

AAflyer

 

[deceptibum]

I'm in class now at CAL and all the charts and instructors have showed us that the next 3 years are going to be the biggest movement. 25% of the active captains now on property leave within the next 3 years. All assuming they are leaving at age 60.

 

[taxicabdriver]

I'd leave CAL in a heartbeat, but I'm only 4 months into it

 

[Howard Hughes]

Open Skies could change this industry in ways even the CEO's dont understand yet until they say "woe, didnt think about that little loophole". This could affect the pax airlines or cargo just the same for better or for worse. Cargo has FE's that could go back to pilot possibly slowing things down even further for the main positions. I wouldnt be at all suprised with open skies if some european cargo haulers startups move in on the "legacy cargo" ops in the US. Just too hard to tell right now. I WILL say dont make your predictions on the exact situation as it exists at this second in time....historicaly that has never worked in the airline biz. Good luck to your friend.

 

[Whine Lover]

"I have a "friend" who is currently married with a job at Starbucks but thinks he would like to make more money slurping penis on a street corner? What should he do....?"


WHY, in God's name, are you people responding to this obvious flame bait?



YKW

 

[pkober]

"I have a "friend" who is currently married with a job at Starbucks but thinks he would like to make more money slurping penis on a street corner? What should he do....?"


WHY, in God's name, are you people responding to this obvious flame bait?



YKW

He needs to look at who has better long term security and medical insurance.:laugh:

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Retirements--That can change very quickly

Fleet growth--That can change very quickly

Business model and company financial position-- This would be my focus

CAL-Decent finances but in a turbulent, low margin industry

UPS-Extremely sound finances in a currently stable, higher margin industry


Open skies may hurt cargo, but I think it is more likely to have a negative impact on pax carriers. May even be good for UPS and Fedex.

If you think DHL, TNT or FedEx are threatening UPS, you should stay at CAL. Overall, I say there is room for 4 dominant cargo companies. Just don't expect a fast upgrade and move to your domicile. Reserve lines are likely in your immediate and midterm future.

If your spouse works and you want to take a shot at a quicker upgrade with more long term risk, go CAL.

 

[AV80R]

He should go to UPS if he wants to ruin his life. Are you kidding me? How many pilots has UPS hired in the last 5 years? maybe 350. How much has their fleet grown? Try none. I think they have fewer airplanes now then they did 5 years ago. He would be junior forever at UPS. It doesn't get any worse than being junior at UPS

Jhill - don't be so bitter - you just weren't cut out for the job, that's all...

 

[AV80R]

However, most of the cargo guys I've met seem to be old beyond their years from the time changes and back of the clock flying.

Totally disagree. It’s exactly what I’d been hearing for years when I used to fly passengers. Now that I’ve done both, passenger and cargo flying, I can personally attest that the flying is very similar on both ends. There’s plenty of day flying at cargo outfits as well but most of all – I think “aging early” has more to do with genetics, not staying in shape and eating junk food than anything else.

What I see is guys and gals who try to stay in shape, work out on their layovers and who seem to be enjoying their lives. Surely I’ve seen some tired folks here but I saw tired pilots at my previous pax carriers too. Like I said, it’s entirely my own opinion but I believe the notion of cargo pilots being “old beyond their years” is a myth. You’ll see those pilots on the passenger and the cargo side and most of the time it has to do with self-induced premature aging.

Also, how does constant fear of furloughs, mergers, bankruptcies, losing pension plans, etc. affect pilots' aging “beyond their years”?

Just something to consider. Fire away…