Should my buddy leave CAL for UPS?

[Non Union]

Which airline has better long term prospects for upgrading to Captain and making the big bucks?

Isn't CAL losing like 50% of their Captains in the next few years?

UPS has hardly any retirements on the horizon. No?

 

[AAflyer]

It is totally up to him. At some point in all of our careers' we should stop trying for the next best thing and be happy where we are.
That said I had a buddy of mine do that in 88. He got on the front side of all of UPS airlines hiring. It worked for him. The situation at CO was a little different back then as well. CO has a great group of people that actually like the pilot group whereas UPS think that they do not need pilots to operate the company.

Bingo! I wouldn't dispute that Fed Ex and UPS look great, but so did UAL,DAL, AA, US, and CAL back in the late 90s. WHo knows, do I think the freight companies will do a nose dive in the near future. NO! But no is immune to anything. At some point if you are happy and at a "good" company (boy, does that word lend itself to many different descriptions!)

None of us will know till the end how we did. There will be many valleys and peeks.

Good Luck to your friend, still a desirable position to be in. Some may never receive a response from either company.

AAflyer

 

[deceptibum]

I'm in class now at CAL and all the charts and instructors have showed us that the next 3 years are going to be the biggest movement. 25% of the active captains now on property leave within the next 3 years. All assuming they are leaving at age 60.

 

[taxicabdriver]

I'd leave CAL in a heartbeat, but I'm only 4 months into it

 

[Howard Hughes]

Open Skies could change this industry in ways even the CEO's dont understand yet until they say "woe, didnt think about that little loophole". This could affect the pax airlines or cargo just the same for better or for worse. Cargo has FE's that could go back to pilot possibly slowing things down even further for the main positions. I wouldnt be at all suprised with open skies if some european cargo haulers startups move in on the "legacy cargo" ops in the US. Just too hard to tell right now. I WILL say dont make your predictions on the exact situation as it exists at this second in time....historicaly that has never worked in the airline biz. Good luck to your friend.

 

[Whine Lover]

"I have a "friend" who is currently married with a job at Starbucks but thinks he would like to make more money slurping penis on a street corner? What should he do....?"


WHY, in God's name, are you people responding to this obvious flame bait?



YKW

 

[pkober]

"I have a "friend" who is currently married with a job at Starbucks but thinks he would like to make more money slurping penis on a street corner? What should he do....?"


WHY, in God's name, are you people responding to this obvious flame bait?



YKW

He needs to look at who has better long term security and medical insurance.:laugh:

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Retirements--That can change very quickly

Fleet growth--That can change very quickly

Business model and company financial position-- This would be my focus

CAL-Decent finances but in a turbulent, low margin industry

UPS-Extremely sound finances in a currently stable, higher margin industry


Open skies may hurt cargo, but I think it is more likely to have a negative impact on pax carriers. May even be good for UPS and Fedex.

If you think DHL, TNT or FedEx are threatening UPS, you should stay at CAL. Overall, I say there is room for 4 dominant cargo companies. Just don't expect a fast upgrade and move to your domicile. Reserve lines are likely in your immediate and midterm future.

If your spouse works and you want to take a shot at a quicker upgrade with more long term risk, go CAL.

 

[AV80R]

He should go to UPS if he wants to ruin his life. Are you kidding me? How many pilots has UPS hired in the last 5 years? maybe 350. How much has their fleet grown? Try none. I think they have fewer airplanes now then they did 5 years ago. He would be junior forever at UPS. It doesn't get any worse than being junior at UPS

Jhill - don't be so bitter - you just weren't cut out for the job, that's all...

 

[AV80R]

However, most of the cargo guys I've met seem to be old beyond their years from the time changes and back of the clock flying.

Totally disagree. It’s exactly what I’d been hearing for years when I used to fly passengers. Now that I’ve done both, passenger and cargo flying, I can personally attest that the flying is very similar on both ends. There’s plenty of day flying at cargo outfits as well but most of all – I think “aging early” has more to do with genetics, not staying in shape and eating junk food than anything else.

What I see is guys and gals who try to stay in shape, work out on their layovers and who seem to be enjoying their lives. Surely I’ve seen some tired folks here but I saw tired pilots at my previous pax carriers too. Like I said, it’s entirely my own opinion but I believe the notion of cargo pilots being “old beyond their years” is a myth. You’ll see those pilots on the passenger and the cargo side and most of the time it has to do with self-induced premature aging.

Also, how does constant fear of furloughs, mergers, bankruptcies, losing pension plans, etc. affect pilots' aging “beyond their years”?

Just something to consider. Fire away…

 

[capt. megadeth]

He should go to UPS if he wants to ruin his life.

Nevermind....I forgot I addressed this dufus already a while ago.

 

[The Victors]

go to UPS without questions!!! It's a no brainer. Just look at the history of each company. cal pilots talk about the great things to come a year or 2 from now. Have things ever been great at cal in terms of job security and pay? The career today is all about job security and it's with, and always has been, cargo.

 

[Networ-King]

Just recently had an 18 year NWA Captain start with UPS.....that's gotta say something......

As for the uninformed people saying things about the back of the clock and time zone changes (Like CAL doesn't fly international) don't listen to these guys. Ignorance is bliss and idiot thats have no clue give out bad info. I got recalled to Delta and bypassed and haven't even looked back. My buddy just went back and he's flying 80 to 90 hours a month hard time and bitchin up a storm. To each his own I guess.....has your buddy ever been furloughed? Where does he want to live or commute to? Be based? How much money does he want to make?

Upgrades and movement? Both have good career progression, but I can tell you first hand that the left seat at UPS in ANC is around 4 years and with a little extra flying (400 to 500) hours a year working the system you can clear 300K... thats on the low side and 4th year pay. Not bad if you ask me, but its not for everyone. With the like of skybus(who res), VA, MaxJet, EOS, and all the new douc hebag airlines that'll start up tomorrow..... you have to think about stability more than the "childhood" dream of flying pax across the pond. Thats my take on it..... the whole starting over, getting furloughed, mergers, bankruptcies ... blah blah blah... UPS and FEDEX are not the end all be all, but more stable than any other flying job out there. Good luck to your friend....


and for all you informed pilots that only think of night flying when you think UPS and FEDEX.....

the only decent airline out there I can think of that does not do all nighters is Southwest....
and remember... I said decent airline not a pos start up. And let not get started about the idiot that posted the multi time zone changes, cause that CAL 777 going from IAH to LGW always... always...... stays in the same time zone and flies only during the day .

 

[CKJET]

I would stay at CAL, EWR is an easy commute from just about anywhere. ANC can be a real pain.

I have been on both sides and even though the boxes don't talk back, I do miss the FA's and the pax from time to time.

At some point you need to just be happy where you are and accept it. Right seat in 777 and not working much is a pretty good gig.

 

[pkober]

Don't listen to anyone on this board. Talk to your family and come up with a plan on your own.

Good luck.