Should my buddy leave CAL for UPS?

[Non Union]

I frankly think he is already overpaid , but my friend just got a UPS offer, after just over one year in at Continental.

He's on the 777 and hardly ever works now as it is, but the UPS offer seems pretty good. Also, it seems that 50% of the CAL pilots are retiring in the next few years, he said.

He will probably get based in Anchorage with UPS, but he's based in Newark now, so how bad can it be in Alaska.

I think he should go to UPS. Any thoughts?

 

[Ex737Driver]

I'm sure the several hundred pilots he's senior too would agree with you, leave.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

It is totally up to him. At some point in all of our careers' we should stop trying for the next best thing and be happy where we are.
That said I had a buddy of mine do that in 88. He got on the front side of all of UPS airlines hiring. It worked for him. The situation at CO was a little different back then as well. CO has a great group of people that actually like the pilot group whereas UPS think that they do not need pilots to operate the company.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I know a guy that left FDX for United in 2001 and that did not work out very good for him at all.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Ya know? A few years back I would have said it's a no brainer but in my old age....I realize that things are just not that easy.

I have 2 friends that I recommended for UPS but UPS never called them. They got on with CAL and are very happy. I asked them if they would want me to still push for them at UPS. They said they want to stick it out with CAL. Things can go south really quickly anywhere, IMO but I do feel more secure at UPS. I have a decent feeling about CAL and I don't blame my buddies for staying. It sure doesn't make it any easier already being off probation IMO. There are a lot of things to consider.

BTW, I would rather be in ANC than anywhere near EWR....but that's just me.

 

[jhill]

I frankly think he is already overpaid , but my friend just got a UPS offer, after just over one year in at Continental.

He's on the 777 and hardly ever works now as it is, but the UPS offer seems pretty good. Also, it seems that 50% of the CAL pilots are retiring in the next few years, he said.

He will probably get based in Anchorage with UPS, but he's based in Newark now, so how bad can it be in Alaska.

I think he should go to UPS. Any thoughts?

He should go to UPS if he wants to ruin his life. Are you kidding me? How many pilots has UPS hired in the last 5 years? maybe 350. How much has their fleet grown? Try none. I think they have fewer airplanes now then they did 5 years ago. He would be junior forever at UPS. It doesn't get any worse than being junior at UPS

 

[Pocono Pilot]

He should go to UPS if he wants to ruin his life. Are you kidding me? How many pilots has UPS hired in the last 5 years? maybe 350. How much has their fleet grown? Try none. I think they have fewer airplanes now then they did 5 years ago. He would be junior forever at UPS. It doesn't get any worse than being junior at UPS

I agree.

With all the retirements, CAL could be the most secure major out there. Also, there is a good chance that CAL will be the highest paid eventually with a new contract.

I hope to be there soon.

 

[donger]

Buddy of mine left CAL for FEDEX. Guess he'll find out if it was the right choice in 20 years.

 

[jtf]

What kind of flying does he like? Can he deal with a significant amount of his life on the back side of the clock? Where does he want to live/ be based? Cargo doesn't complain, seems to be a little more secure, and will most likely pay out a lot more at the end of a career at least with the current contracts, full pension, B fund, and 401k. However, most of the cargo guys I've met seem to be old beyond their years from the time changes and back of the clock flying. I know they can get day schedules eventually, but it isn't overnight. Both jobs seem like a good place to be so it depends on what is most important for the individual. Pure pay and probably time off will be UPS- over 100k by the second year would be very nice, but you pay for it in other ways that you don't at a major airline. I'd be a money whore and happily take ANC, but that's just me. Must be nice to be in your friends position.

 

[propjob27]

Buddy of mine left CAL for FEDEX. Guess he'll find out if it was the right choice in 20 years.

I did the same thing. Hired CAL in Aug 2006. Quit in Dec 2006. Went to FedEX Jan 2007

So far, W2 wise, I definitely did the right thing. (128 an hour currently, vs the 65 an hour I would be making at CAL)

In 20 years, who knows. There probably isn't a right answer to this question. Just do what you think is right, and don't look back.

 

[PreContact]

He should go to UPS if he wants to ruin his life. Are you kidding me? How many pilots has UPS hired in the last 5 years? maybe 350. How much has their fleet grown? Try none. I think they have fewer airplanes now then they did 5 years ago. He would be junior forever at UPS. It doesn't get any worse than being junior at UPS

That's not entirely true. We have been acquiring larger planes (MD-11s, 747-400s, and more to come) and our growth is on the international side where the crew ratio is something like 10 per airfarme while we're retiring 727s. You can't even compare the total compensation at the 2 airlines. Granted, CO might be looking at high retirement numbers in the coming years, but I would still pick UPS for the long-term. As for schedules, it depends where he lives. He could live in SDF or ANC and be very happy. But it's anyones guess where we'll all be in 25 years. All I can say is good luck!

 

[Slice121]

He should go to UPS if he wants to ruin his life. Are you kidding me? How many pilots has UPS hired in the last 5 years? maybe 350. How much has their fleet grown? Try none. I think they have fewer airplanes now then they did 5 years ago. He would be junior forever at UPS. It doesn't get any worse than being junior at UPS

At least 52 new widebody aircraft thru 2012 and projected to hire around 250 this year...you can keep your bitching pax, I'll take my chances wearing brown!

• Ordered 27 Boeing 767-300ERs from Boeing, deliveries 2009-2012
• Projecting 500-600 crewmembers in ANC base eventually (MD11 and 747-400)
• First 747-400F delivery set for June, to be operated SDF-ANC initially
• 2007 deliveries: 3 747-400s, 10 MD11s
• 2008 deliveries: 7 747-400s, 5 MD11s

 

[psysicx]

How much of UPS flying is backside of the clock? From some of the posts on here you never do it if you don't want. And is you live in your base and bid reserve you never work.

 

[Non Union]

Much quicker upgrade with UPS too. I've heard less than 5 years possibly for an MD 11 upgrade in ANC. That's good money for a young guy.

Also, I highly doubt that many will retire from CAL now due to the change in the age 65 rule.

I still say UPS. No brainer in my opinion.

I heard the CAL schedules suck now too becuase of a new bidding procedure. PBS??

 

[jtmpilot]

Went to FedEX Jan 2007

So far, W2 wise, I definitely did the right thing. (128 an hour currently, vs the 65 an hour I would be making at CAL)



HIRED in 2007??? dude your not at 128 an hour till year 2 pay... and right seat in the bus is what you have listed? We havent hired anyone except a couple Subic guys into the bus...

 

[mule]

deleted....repeat of what jtm said.

 

[bearcat]

I personally think that all replies are missing the most important part of this whole thread. Where do you live? Where do you want to live?? Where do you want to commute?? If you are from the New York area, UPS is a terrible decision. If you are from SDF, MIA, ONT, ANC, blah blah blah...CO is a terrible decision. Most people chase after the W2, I would have thought things differently if I would have realized COMMUTING SUCKS!!!! I'm at CAL, almost 1.5 years and 56% in EWR. The seniority is going like crazy. SO far I love working there, but I hate commuting. I would take into consideration on what is best for your family and yourself. If you can live anywhere and it doesn't matter to you or your family, then UPS. Oh, red eyes kill me and I cannot stand them and they are ten times worse when you commute in same day. Just my thoughts....

-W-

 

[1800 RVR]

I'm beginning to think that these posts are pure flamebait, but, I will get sucked into this anyway. My view:

Who gives a crap?

I truly hate these types of threads. Every person has to make a choice and stick with it. UPS is not for everyone, and CAL is not for everyone. He is a grown-up; make a decision on your own, for pete's sake!

He should go to UPS if he wants to ruin his life. Are you kidding me? How many pilots has UPS hired in the last 5 years? maybe 350. How much has their fleet grown? Try none. I think they have fewer airplanes now then they did 5 years ago. He would be junior forever at UPS. It doesn't get any worse than being junior at UPS

Do you even work here at UPS? I think not, because you know not what you speak of. I am junior and it is not bad; not any worse than any other airline. Tell me why you say the things you do? Give me examples.

 

[propjob27]

Went to FedEX Jan 2007

So far, W2 wise, I definitely did the right thing. (128 an hour currently, vs the 65 an hour I would be making at CAL)



HIRED in 2007??? dude your not at 128 an hour till year 2 pay... and right seat in the bus is what you have listed? We havent hired anyone except a couple Subic guys into the bus...

Bingo. (SFS)

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Bingo. (SFS)

What did you say?? All I heard was $128/hr as a new hire (Jan 07) and nothing else.

WD.

 

[propjob27]

What did you say?? All I heard was $128/hr as a new hire (Jan 07) and nothing else.
WD.

I was saying as a 2nd year FO at FedEX, you can make 128 an hour. You have two options for this:

One: Go to SFS (available as a new hire almost always)
Two: Go to ANC (was available as a hire option for a while, also available as a quick bid out of the FE seat)

Takes a LONG time to make that money at CAL.

Not sure about UPS though, and since this is a CAL and UPS thread, I apologize for hijacking it with FedEX stuff.

 

[Aviator7576]

And you think the EWR commute is bad, try commuting to the PI for your trips. If you started Fedex in Jan '07, you're still on first year pay. So you're not making 128/hr. It's always nice to look ahead, but you got almost a year before you make those bucks.

Aviator7576

 

[Wiskey Driver]

And you think the EWR commute is bad, try commuting to the PI for your trips. If you started Fedex in Jan '07, you're still on first year pay. So you're not making 128/hr. It's always nice to look ahead, but you got almost a year before you make those bucks.

Aviator7576

I was saying as a 2nd year FO at FedEX, you can make 128 an hour. You have two options for this:

One: Go to SFS (available as a new hire almost always)
Two: Go to ANC (was available as a hire option for a while, also available as a quick bid out of the FE seat)

Takes a LONG time to make that money at CAL.

Not sure about UPS though, and since this is a CAL and UPS thread, I apologize for hijacking it with FedEX stuff.
__________________
The Betty Cat says, "You puss y."

Fellas, I can't seem to hear a thing other than $128/hr as a new hire!! My ears are still ringing with that.lol

Thanks guys, I am sure he meant some other time other than new hire.

WD

 

[GogglesPisano]

I apologize in advance because I do not fly for either airline but would really like to fly for one (only one.)

First, I think "NON UNION" should reveal a lot about the poster "who has a friend" with 2 job offers. This whole thread is based on flamebait of the most blatant flavor.

Second, assuming for a split-second that it isn't flamebait, how could someone not find the answer to this question in their own heart? There is a big difference between flying for a traditional legacy and a big cargo carrier. They both have their pro's and con's. If you're a pure, non-emotional, Mr Spock speadsheet kind of guy you simply look at payscales and job security and the obvious choice is UPS. If you're still trying to fulfill your childhood dream of flying widebodies across the pond for a traditional carrier (ala Pan Am/TWA) the obvious choice is CAL (merger rumors be danged!)

If one is lucky enough to be have 2 job offers (ie "competetive" -- ie "experienced") how can anyone not know which type of pilot they are at this stage in their careers?

Pure flamebait.



PS: Flying cargo is not for everyone! And money does notbuy happiness

 

[Clyde]

.....

 

[AlbieF15]

Not really. I've helped several guys who left CAL for UPS and FedEx. One was a Texan...living in Houston. Tough choice but the stability in the business was attractive to him. I'm sure he's happy--but he also probably looks at the CAL 777s when he's commuting back and forth too....

 

[capt. megadeth]

He should go to UPS if he wants to ruin his life. Are you kidding me? How many pilots has UPS hired in the last 5 years? maybe 350. How much has their fleet grown? Try none. I think they have fewer airplanes now then they did 5 years ago. He would be junior forever at UPS. It doesn't get any worse than being junior at UPS

Ruin his life?

Ok dramaqueen.

 

[727C47]

ups !!

 

[whymeworry?]

A buddy of mine was in the very same predicament.

He interviewed and was put in to the pool before he got hired at CAL. Right after he finished his one-year CAL bootcamp, UPS calls. He wrangled with this decision for weeks ultimately deciding to stay at CAL.

Personally, I think he was crazy for not choosing UPS. Sure CAL will get better in time but it will take us years to catch up with UPS. All that said, getting through the first year at CAL is tough (pay, no med, proby pilot reports, etc). I think he just didn't want to go through that marathon yet another time in his career. He was 40 at the time of the decision 6 mos ago.

The whole first-year thing in this career is demeaning to the profession, but that's another thread.

If your friend can handle it, I would go with UPS.

 

[LJDRVR]

Your friend is senior to me, he should definitely leave.

Seriously, it really doesn't matter which one, either airline will provide him with a good career.