Seniority list at the new AA?

[doh]

So what did the West guys do wrong again? Tried to follow an award given to them by an arbitrator? You know, the one BOTH sides agreed to?


Bye Bye---General Lee

CRJ Puppy, what part of that is wrong? If the East is allowed to use their greater numbers to overturn binding arbitration, then Bond McCaskell is void. And any smaller group in a merger is slave to the demands of the larger group, regardless of who is the financial savior in the deal. You really want that?

 

[waveflyer]

I'm curious what APA members would rather have as the starting point with the usair list? Doh or Nic?

If they work around Nic to help usapa (somehow...?) get their vaunted DOH- would that set a precedence that the entire list would have to go date of hire?

At this point NOBODY cares what usair pilots think- that debates been had ad nauseum porcelain worshipped to death-

But what do APA pilots want?


Btw- east pilots? There is no winning your lawsuits or your mission- the extra 5-6 years you've been on industry anchoring loa93 ensures no winners....anywhere

 

[reepicheep]

I say this as a west pilot - I think there is a general overestimation on the part of the west of the amount of disdain and revulsion that APA supposedly has toward the east. I think there is a vague sense that something didn't click in the merger and maybe the east was up to some shenanigans but beyond that I don't think they care....I suspect their motivation is to get the deal done and the SLI going & I doubt they are losing any sleep at night over what's been done to the west pilots and where they end up on the list USAPA presents and how they can make it right.

Sorry; hope I'm wrong. Maybe some AA pilots can chime in here and shed more light on the general feeling there about the AWA/US fiasco.

 

[General Lee]

I'm curious what APA members would rather have as the starting point with the usair list? Doh or Nic?

If they work around Nic to help usapa (somehow...?) get their vaunted DOH- would that set a precedence that the entire list would have to go date of hire?

At this point NOBODY cares what usair pilots think- that debates been had ad nauseum porcelain worshipped to death-

But what do APA pilots want?


Btw- east pilots? There is no winning your lawsuits or your mission- the extra 5-6 years you've been on industry anchoring loa93 ensures no winners....anywhere

The answer may be in the APA quote in their own statement:


"We have seen a model for a successfully arbitrated seniority integration at Delta-Northwest using fences and a ratio methodology based on a percentile seniority list ranking. Also, if an American Airlines-US Airways seniority integration were to be arbitrated, our attorneys have indicated that the ongoing seniority dispute between “West” and “East” at US Airways would be settled as part of the process and should not have any negative impact on an arbitrator’s decision under the McCaskill-Bond statute."



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

I saw thatGL, but it doesn't shed light on their expectations.

Probably too early for that anyway- these things are generally amicable until the specific demographics get exposed

 

[aa73]

I am an AA pilot and frankly I have no idea how the Nic will affect us, only that in ANY scenario, the bottom half of our list will definitely take a hit. And I'm ready for that, just the nature of the beast in any merger between two large airlines.

DOH = DOA. Sorry, not gonna happen, much to Usapa's dismay. This would be way too skewed to Usapa's favor. I'm thinking it will be either the Nic with AA pilots slotted in via relative seniority, or a complete redo of all 3 lists using relative seniority.

Our union leaders and arbitrators need to enroll at Delta University for a lesson on one of the most successful, non-confrontational seniority integrations ever.

 

[StopNTSing]

The only thing this menage-a-trois has going for it is lots of retirements. Buy corn futures now, because there isn't going to be enough popcorn to last until this pending trainwreck finally gets settled. Best of luck to all involved, I fear you will very much need it.

 

[OHGOON]

I am an AA pilot and frankly I have no idea how the Nic will affect us, only that in ANY scenario, the bottom half of our list will definitely take a hit. And I'm ready for that, just the nature of the beast in any merger between two large airlines.

DOH = DOA. Sorry, not gonna happen, much to Usapa's dismay. This would be way too skewed to Usapa's favor. I'm thinking it will be either the Nic with AA pilots slotted in via relative seniority, or a complete redo of all 3 lists using relative seniority.

Our union leaders and arbitrators need to enroll at Delta University for a lesson on one of the most successful, non-confrontational seniority integrations ever.

AMEN!!

Looks like many have learned that the staple is no longer a viable solution even it it were still possible...

 

[gutshotdraw]

DOH = DOA. Sorry, not gonna happen, much to Usapa's dismay. This would be way too skewed to Usapa's favor. I'm thinking it will be either the Nic with AA pilots slotted in via relative seniority, or a complete redo of all 3 lists using relative seniority.

Word.

 

[General Lee]

I am an AA pilot and frankly I have no idea how the Nic will affect us, only that in ANY scenario, the bottom half of our list will definitely take a hit. And I'm ready for that, just the nature of the beast in any merger between two large airlines.

DOH = DOA. Sorry, not gonna happen, much to Usapa's dismay. This would be way too skewed to Usapa's favor. I'm thinking it will be either the Nic with AA pilots slotted in via relative seniority, or a complete redo of all 3 lists using relative seniority.

Our union leaders and arbitrators need to enroll at Delta University for a lesson on one of the most successful, non-confrontational seniority integrations ever.

The key seems to be management STAYING OUT OF IT, and the groups agreeing to arbitration and also agreeing to abide by it (IOW BINDING). Having integrity really helps. Nobody but the number 1 seniority pilot will like the new SLI, but having mangement stay out of it, all of the angry pilots have someone or a group to point at, and that would be the arbitrator(s). That way, they don't point at each other in the cockpit. When they say "I got F'd in the merger", they can say who did it to them, not the "other side." The arbitrator(s) don't care, they got a flat fee that keeps them on the golf course. It's the only fair way to do it, by someone who has no way to gain in the process except the flat fee.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Deadalus]

I was told by a west pilot recently that USAPA has DOH in their constitution and they think they can get it from the APA without going to arbitration, because they know darn well an arbitrator won't let them steal seniority or redo an already arbitrated list. Their argument goes something like this, "hey American pilots, let us have DOH, because we're all going to retire in five years anyways. Yeah we know ignoring the NIC will make you and the company liable, but you don't want all those Mesa pilots above you." I wanted to laugh, but I know it is a serious matter for pilots that have to deal with those idiots.
It's nice to see the level of intelligence and integrity that are shown here by both Delta and American pilots, maybe there is hope for the profession. As for the majority of east US pilots, those sleazy dumbA$$es are the reason I quite aviation. I deal with plenty of sleazy corporate lawyers and the average east pilot puts them all to shame.

 

[The Drizzle]

I am an AA pilot and frankly I have no idea how the Nic will affect us, only that in ANY scenario, the bottom half of our list will definitely take a hit. And I'm ready for that, just the nature of the beast in any merger between two large airlines.

DOH = DOA. Sorry, not gonna happen, much to Usapa's dismay. This would be way too skewed to Usapa's favor. I'm thinking it will be either the Nic with AA pilots slotted in via relative seniority, or a complete redo of all 3 lists using relative seniority.

Our union leaders and arbitrators need to enroll at Delta University for a lesson on one of the most successful, non-confrontational seniority integrations ever.

Purely opinion, but I think the east is going to actively harm themselves in any outcome of arbitration due to the required hardline stance of DOH in the USAPA constitution. Coming with and holding to the untenable position of DOH is going to be destructive to east pilots in this integration as it was in their last.

The party that comes with a moderate and reasonable offer will be in the position to guide the end result. Pounding one's fist on the table while chanting DOH DOH DOH will only yield another Nic-like result -or- for a post McCaskill-Bond example, F9-RAH.

Being a hardliner in this case is a weakness not a strength, but I'm mega-junior so i'm going at the bottom of the pile no matter what.

 

[aa73]

Being a hardliner in this case is a weakness not a strength, but I'm mega-junior so i'm going at the bottom of the pile no matter what.

Ditto...

 

[LaGarbage Man]

Ditto...

Double Dog Ditto... What's up my ACA brother ?

 

[dollacrackho]

Why dont they just use a lottery system 2/3 of the people are gonna be miserable anyways, might as well make it interesting. They could throw a big vegas party and you get wasted as a ping pong ball determines your future.