Seniority list at the new AA?

[thruthemurk]

The shot across the bow is delegating Usair to RJ growth and AA to mainline growth, that's the start of an epic fail which I mentioned earlier. Then have the gall to say the SLI won't be done for years and will be favorable to AA, ie, the bankrupt pilots.

Interesting. Who were the bankrupt pilots in East/West? The view of the East shifts always with the self serving breeze.

 

[Dornier 335]

From USAPA:

Last month the pilots of US Airways voted overwhelmingly to ratify the Memorandum of Understanding for a merger with American Airlines. This historic decision will lead to better wages, benefits, and working conditions for us all. While a final JCBA will be negotiated with the New American Airlines that can bring even more improvements, the MOU itself provides $1.6 billion in economic improvements for you over the next six years.

The vote on the MOU was impressive. Some 95% of US Airways pilots turned out, with 76% voting in favor of it. Every domicile overwhelmingly supported the MOU, including Phoenix where 98% of Phoenix-based pilots voted in favor of it. Despite this overwhelming support for the MOU, a few represented by Leonidas LLC are threatening the American Airlines/US Airways merger that was endorsed so strongly by the Phoenix-based pilots.

Eleven days after the MOU was ratified by the pilots of US Airways and five days after the boards of American Airlines and US Airways unanimously approved and announced the merger, the attorney for Leonidas LLC threatened “to file a third round of litigation and seek an injunction of the merger process until we can get a court order directing that the only [seniority] list that can be used is the Nicolau.” The next day, the same attorney wrote a second letter, stating that Leonidas LLC “anticipates litigation and hereby requests that the US Airline Pilots Association... place a litigation hold on certain materials that will be discoverable in such litigation.” Similar letters were sent to APA and US Airways.

Unfortunately these are not idle threats. In the past five years, Leonidas LLC has spent a significant amount of time and money suing USAPA, only to have their cases dismissed.

While Leonidas LLC claims to represent all West pilots; I do not think that is the case. Why? Because 98% of Phoenix-based pilots voted in favor of the MOU and the process outlined for JCBA negotiations and seniority integration. Just 11 days after their near unanimous vote, the attorney for Leonidas LLC threatened to derail the deal. No other domicile showed greater support for the MOU. In fact, only 24 out of 1041 PHX pilots voting said no to the MOU.

We cannot stand idly by while a handful of individuals seek to derail an MOU that US Airways pilots overwhelmingly support. That’s why your BPR today approved the filing of a lawsuit in the American Airlines bankruptcy court to prevent Leonidas LLC from interfering with the bankruptcy. This is not an action against the Phoenix-based pilots, nor is it a course of action that anyone desires. Rather, we have been forced to file this action to protect the rights of all pilots – West and East – who overwhelmingly voted in favor of the MOU and the process to move us all collectively forward.

Despite our filing in the bankruptcy court today, we will continue to represent all pilots – East and West alike. Pilots from all domiciles are on our BPR and important committees such as NAC and Grievance. They continue to find common ground and have learned how to work together in a process that benefits us all.

On my first day in office, I appointed a West pilot, Ken Stravers, to the Merger Committee, based on the recommendation of Phoenix-based pilots. Unfortunately, before the BPR could approve Ken’s appointment, the same West pilots changed their mind and withdrew their recommendation. Despite this, I am still committed to appointing Phoenix-based pilots to important committees. We are stronger when we work together.

It’s no secret that the Company has exploited our divisions for far too long. Over the past 10 months we were able to turn down the volume, unite the parts into the whole, and work as one union toward our mutual goal of industry standard wages, benefits and working conditions. That is my pledge to you. Despite the noise being generated by a few, USAPA will continue to represent all pilots and ensure that this union moves in a direction that benefits us all.

 

[doh]

Wow, who would have thought that forcing the unscrupulous east to keep their word is "threatening" the merger? So, unless the east is allowed to be dishonest, the merger can't take place...just wow...

 

[TWA Dude]

What an idiot. Leonidas recommended voting for the MOU.
That's why 98% of PHX did.

 

[gutshotdraw]

The filings by Leonidas are strictly boilerplate legal actions to maintain the standing of the West pilots in the dispute so that they can sue all the parties involved if Nicolau is abrogated in the SLI and the case becomes ripe. Nothing more.

There is NO WAY APA will even consider East's DOH proposal and expose themselves to HUGE legal liability. This WILL go to arbitration and I hope it is an accelerated process so that we can FINALLY see who was right and who was East...er, I mean wrong.

 

[General Lee]

From USAPA:

Last month the pilots of US Airways voted overwhelmingly to ratify the Memorandum of Understanding for a merger with American Airlines. This historic decision will lead to better wages, benefits, and working conditions for us all. While a final JCBA will be negotiated with the New American Airlines that can bring even more improvements, the MOU itself provides $1.6 billion in economic improvements for you over the next six years.

The vote on the MOU was impressive. Some 95% of US Airways pilots turned out, with 76% voting in favor of it. Every domicile overwhelmingly supported the MOU, including Phoenix where 98% of Phoenix-based pilots voted in favor of it. Despite this overwhelming support for the MOU, a few represented by Leonidas LLC are threatening the American Airlines/US Airways merger that was endorsed so strongly by the Phoenix-based pilots.

Eleven days after the MOU was ratified by the pilots of US Airways and five days after the boards of American Airlines and US Airways unanimously approved and announced the merger, the attorney for Leonidas LLC threatened “to file a third round of litigation and seek an injunction of the merger process until we can get a court order directing that the only [seniority] list that can be used is the Nicolau.” The next day, the same attorney wrote a second letter, stating that Leonidas LLC “anticipates litigation and hereby requests that the US Airline Pilots Association... place a litigation hold on certain materials that will be discoverable in such litigation.” Similar letters were sent to APA and US Airways.

Unfortunately these are not idle threats. In the past five years, Leonidas LLC has spent a significant amount of time and money suing USAPA, only to have their cases dismissed.

While Leonidas LLC claims to represent all West pilots; I do not think that is the case. Why? Because 98% of Phoenix-based pilots voted in favor of the MOU and the process outlined for JCBA negotiations and seniority integration. Just 11 days after their near unanimous vote, the attorney for Leonidas LLC threatened to derail the deal. No other domicile showed greater support for the MOU. In fact, only 24 out of 1041 PHX pilots voting said no to the MOU.

We cannot stand idly by while a handful of individuals seek to derail an MOU that US Airways pilots overwhelmingly support. That’s why your BPR today approved the filing of a lawsuit in the American Airlines bankruptcy court to prevent Leonidas LLC from interfering with the bankruptcy. This is not an action against the Phoenix-based pilots, nor is it a course of action that anyone desires. Rather, we have been forced to file this action to protect the rights of all pilots – West and East – who overwhelmingly voted in favor of the MOU and the process to move us all collectively forward.

Despite our filing in the bankruptcy court today, we will continue to represent all pilots – East and West alike. Pilots from all domiciles are on our BPR and important committees such as NAC and Grievance. They continue to find common ground and have learned how to work together in a process that benefits us all.

On my first day in office, I appointed a West pilot, Ken Stravers, to the Merger Committee, based on the recommendation of Phoenix-based pilots. Unfortunately, before the BPR could approve Ken’s appointment, the same West pilots changed their mind and withdrew their recommendation. Despite this, I am still committed to appointing Phoenix-based pilots to important committees. We are stronger when we work together.

It’s no secret that the Company has exploited our divisions for far too long. Over the past 10 months we were able to turn down the volume, unite the parts into the whole, and work as one union toward our mutual goal of industry standard wages, benefits and working conditions. That is my pledge to you. Despite the noise being generated by a few, USAPA will continue to represent all pilots and ensure that this union moves in a direction that benefits us all.

Funny stuff. It might be true 98% of the Westies voted for the MOU, because they WANT the merger with AA, to eventually dump USAPA. Staying status quo hasn't helped the Westies at all. A merge will FORCE the NIC to be awarded finally. The stooge writing that forgot to mention it..... I don't think the 98% would vote for anything allowing the NIC to be discarded. Nah.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Bringupthebird]

Gee Gary, accept the Nicolau (since you've stolen the rightful seniority of the majority of the west pilots by this time anyhow) and see how that greases your beloved merger.

 

[Crzipilot]

I forget, wasn't that arbitration an internal "union" process, which even though is was supposedly binding, even the president of such esteemed organization tried to get the parties to negotiate away from such?

I would think that an internal process is different from a federal mandated one, say like with a brokerage house or something.......... So yes if US had stayed alpa, it would be binding.....but Poof, alpa was gone (even though the west said it would never happen, east didn't have the votes) Sorta like BK laws and being able to abrograte contracts almost at will.......

I see, you think it's ok for corporations to stretch contract law, but not individuals?

I could be wrong,,,,,,

 

[Flybywire44]

Just imagine... This subject will be dead 24 months from now. :0

 

[doh]

I forget, wasn't that arbitration an internal "union" process, which even though is was supposedly binding, even the president of such esteemed organization tried to get the parties to negotiate away from such?

I would think that an internal process is different from a federal mandated one, say like with a brokerage house or something.......... So yes if US had stayed alpa, it would be binding.....but Poof, alpa was gone (even though the west said it would never happen, east didn't have the votes) Sorta like BK laws and being able to abrograte contracts almost at will.......

I see, you think it's ok for corporations to stretch contract law, but not individuals?

I could be wrong,,,,,,

Not just no, but HELL NO!!!! It is not ok for corporations to stretch contract law!! Are you stupid??? And it is not ok for a union either. The RLA says that agreements are inherited. Thus, management may not change the corporate name and abrogate a contract or renege on shareholder obligations. Neither can a union. And it is high time the courts biotch slap the scumbags who are trying to do just that.

 

[General Lee]

I forget, wasn't that arbitration an internal "union" process, which even though is was supposedly binding, even the president of such esteemed organization tried to get the parties to negotiate away from such?

I would think that an internal process is different from a federal mandated one, say like with a brokerage house or something.......... So yes if US had stayed alpa, it would be binding.....but Poof, alpa was gone (even though the west said it would never happen, east didn't have the votes) Sorta like BK laws and being able to abrograte contracts almost at will.......

I see, you think it's ok for corporations to stretch contract law, but not individuals?

I could be wrong,,,,,,

Didn't the company agree to it too? Are any of them still around? Yup. You forgot about the other agreeing party. Poof, there goes USAPA.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Draginass]

Not just no, but HELL NO!!!! It is not ok for corporations to stretch contract law!! Are you stupid??? And it is not ok for a union either. The RLA says that agreements are inherited. Thus, management may not change the corporate name and abrogate a contract or renege on shareholder obligations. Neither can a union. And it is high time the courts biotch slap the scumbags who are trying to do just that.

Riggghttt. I guess we'll find out in a year or two when the AA/US Air SLI goes to the arbitrators.

I don't think the APA is going to want to inherit USAPA's dirty laundry. They're going let it go to arbitration and make the arbitrators decide on which US Air list to use.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I forget, wasn't that arbitration an internal "union" process, which even though is was supposedly binding, even the president of such esteemed organization tried to get the parties to negotiate away from such?

I would think that an internal process is different from a federal mandated one, say like with a brokerage house or something.......... So yes if US had stayed alpa, it would be binding.....but Poof, alpa was gone (even though the west said it would never happen, east didn't have the votes) Sorta like BK laws and being able to abrograte contracts almost at will.......

I see, you think it's ok for corporations to stretch contract law, but not individuals?

I could be wrong,,,,,,

You are. There is no variably binding arbitration based on who is involved. The parties have not changed, only the representitives (ALPA->USAPA). Changing the union didn't matter, nor did ginning up a constitution that prohibits the results of the arbitration after the fact.

What has sheltered USAPA from paying the price for their misdeeds has been their failure to deliver a contract that cements their DOH scheme. They have been able to steal the west pilot's rightful benefits of the merger by delaying doing anything. No one has forced their hand through a representation election, so apparently all the parties are OK with USAPA's theft (litigation notwithstanding). Frankly that's what baffles me. USAPA will not find a willing accomplice in the APA to continue their theft, so they will either find additional ways to continue to delay or they will proffer a base fence that accomplishes the same thing without the threat of more DFR suits.

A more likely scenario is that the APA does what it wants after Single Carrier is determined (expedited no doubt). Prior to that APA will copy from the USAPA playbook and drag it's feet until it can deal unilaterally.

You demanded no accountability from USAPA, so you should expect no truth from their leaders.

 

[fam62c]

Even if the Nic award gets implemented would it necessarily matter in the long run? The next arbitrator could decide to go to something closer to DOH for the whole American list and basically reverse the Nic award with a new award that supersedes it.

The Nic award puts many newer DOH pilots at west above pilots at East with older DOH. That may be fine for that side because the award legitimately arbitrated over there but will the next arbitrator put newer DOH west pilots in front of older DOH American pilots? There's a chance that eventually the Nic award will not matter system-wide after the next arbitration except to the extent that Airways exists behind a fence for some period of time. The American pilots have the numbers (just like the west pilots did) and will make every effort to protect their interests. I don't expect them to look any more kindly on a solution that strays far from DOH than the West pilots did. In the end I see the west pilots ending up on the big list somewhere near DOH. Is that fair?.........who knows what fair is in this crazy industry.

 

[TWA Dude]

Even if the Nic award gets implemented would it necessarily matter in the long run?

Yes. Integrity always matters -- regardless of seniority.

In the end I see the west pilots ending up on the big list somewhere near DOH. Is that fair?.........who knows what fair is in this crazy industry.

Your scenarios are irrelevant because there will never be agreement on what constitutes a fair integration. All we can hope for is a fair process by which the SLI is achieved. Arbitration is the only way and any effort to circumvent it is abhorrent.

 

[Draginass]

Even if the Nic award gets implemented would it necessarily matter in the long run? The next arbitrator could decide to go to something closer to DOH for the whole American list and basically reverse the Nic award with a new award that supersedes it.

The Nic award puts many newer DOH pilots at west above pilots at East with older DOH. That may be fine for that side because the award legitimately arbitrated over there but will the next arbitrator put newer DOH west pilots in front of older DOH American pilots? There's a chance that eventually the Nic award will not matter system-wide after the next arbitration except to the extent that Airways exists behind a fence for some period of time. The American pilots have the numbers (just like the west pilots did) and will make every effort to protect their interests. I don't expect them to look any more kindly on a solution that strays far from DOH than the West pilots did. In the end I see the west pilots ending up on the big list somewhere near DOH. Is that fair?.........who knows what fair is in this crazy industry.

My guess is that the arbitrators will not weight heavily "DOH." I think relative seniority, some fences, and taking into account the 5:1 disparity in widebodies will be the core principles of an arbitration. It'll be much more like NWA/DAL. And that's where the problem lies. What SL does USAPA slide across the table to the arbitrators?

Again, there's no WAY the APA is going to touch USAPA's legal morass. USAPA has to clean it's own house first.

 

[PGTB]

What are the chances that this makes the merge fall apart before it even happens?

 

[General Lee]

What are the chances that this makes the merge fall apart before it even happens?

I think ZERO. The creditors want their money, and so does management. It will happen regardless. But, Parker wants integration for this merger, and he will probably FORCE USAPA to act, and that would mean the NIC....... You can run but you can't hide USAPA!!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ERfly]

Why is Leonidas paying all this money for lawyers? Just let General Lee do it. I mean as a supposed Delta first officer, he's a subject-matter expert on the goings on at US Airways.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Draginass]

What are the chances that this makes the merge fall apart before it even happens?

The merger will happen no matter what USAPA does or doesn't do. They don't have nearly the horsepower to stop it. Heck, they've already voted for it.

The SLI, will no doubt, go to arbitration. USAPA or Leonides, can pitch a hissy, but it's going to happen. After the final SLI arbitration, the decision will come down and, whomever "they" is, is going to be told to take the pay raise, sit down and STFU, or leave.