Sad Night!!!

[jtf]

I don't feel warm and fuzzy that I am stuck as an FO with lots of junior captains on the Gulfstreams, but that is reality and what we bargained for and that is about as good as we were going to get. No arbitrator would have stapled them if we went to arbitration and we would still be stuck in a worse position with the 2005 contract if we weren't able to agree to the IBB. Honestly, the vast majority of us SICs that are senior to G captains would never have been able to get hired on the NJI side off the street anyway. I do think they probably upgraded more pilots than necessary which exasperates the hard feelings, but the company followed the LOA and upgraded the required number of NJA pilots into the G-IVs and brought over the required numbers of FOs from the NJA side per the agreements. It is time to quit complaining about how both sides feel things are so unfair since there is NOTHING we can do about it until the next negotiating opportunity. All we can accomplish now is to let the hard feelings fester and possibly offer worse service and lose more customers.

My hope is that the company is not able or willing to extend the contract and that the next negotiations go to a single pay grade by years of service- not separate FO and CA pay scale. Nobody will ever be a captain at NJA quickly again, so it could be implemented without screwing anybody already on property and still pay those who get hired in the future fairly (at rates improved over the current FO rates, but still in the FO ball park through the first 5 years or so). This kind of pay scale would bring both groups more together without sacrificing the newhires in the future like the airlines did with their B-scales.

 

[YankeeEcho]

Just to chime in with my 2 cents. Many on the board know from over the years that I am, generally, not one that sees great benefit to the members of a union. However, from my seat in the back, I am benefited by and do appreciate a structure which allows pilots to call "fatigue" without other ramifications or pressures. Maybe it is the union that makes that possible and protects the pilots, therefore, protecting me and my family.

Unfortunately, you don't have a good understanding. At NJI, no one was ever pressured to fly fatigued . . . and I felt FAR more 'protected' by the company then than I do now. There is no longer any logic or practicality to the decision-making - only yielding to the CBA and union preferences.

 

[NJAowner]

When I wrote that post I was not referring to NJI -- I was referring to some other operators.

I apologize for not making that clear.

 

[gunfyter]

Like this?

http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=124346&provider=top

 

[rajflyboy]

Unfortunately, you don't have a good understanding. At NJI, no one was ever pressured to fly fatigued . . . and I felt FAR more 'protected' by the company then than I do now. There is no longer any logic or practicality to the decision-making - only yielding to the CBA and union preferences.

With the union you are FAR more protected than you ever have been. Not just from fatigue but from most anything else as well.

The best part about the union is the fact that you will be protected.

If you screw up and you need representation the union will be right there for you in most cases.

 

[ozpilot]

With the union you are FAR more protected than you ever have been. Not just from fatigue but from most anything else as well.

The best part about the union is the fact that you will be protected.

If you screw up and you need representation the union will be right there for you in most cases.

Yes the Union provides protection, but in the case of fatigue and other safety issues it is not needed. Its part of the corporate culture at Netjets.

When Netjest says Safety is priority # 1 they mean it. I've fatigued numerous times over the years and never had any push back from the company. I've also refused trips due to safety concerns.

On one occasion I refused a trip out of Teterboro due to ice on the taxiways. What did Netjets do? They not only cancelled my flight but suspended ALL operations out of that airport until the next morning. Impressive.

On none of these occasions did I need the Union to get involved.

I appreciated having Union protection, but to imply that the safety culture at Netjets is entirely due to the Union is ludicrous.

As I've always believed - Rule #1 in customer service is don't kill the customer!

 

[rajflyboy]

Yes the Union provides protection, but in the case of fatigue and other safety issues it is not needed. Its part of the corporate culture at Netjets.

When Netjest says Safety is priority # 1 they mean it. I've fatigued numerous times over the years and never had any push back from the company. I've also refused trips due to safety concerns.

On one occasion I refused a trip out of Teterboro due to ice on the taxiways. What did Netjets do? They not only cancelled my flight but suspended ALL operations out of that airport until the next morning. Impressive.

On none of these occasions did I need the Union to get involved.

I appreciated having Union protection, but to imply that the safety culture at Netjets is entirely due to the Union is ludicrous.

As I've always believed - Rule #1 in customer service is don't kill the customer!

You are missing the point. The major reason you are able to call in fatigue or call the chief pilot with a safety issue is because you have a union. The pilot has union representation (lawyers) and also data (facts) to help his or her case should things get out of control and have to go as far as discipline or worse towards a pilot in this situation.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

When Netjest says Safety is priority # 1 they mean it.

Excellent post Oz. Union, no union, big planes, small planes... this company has absolutely figured out what the #1 most important thing in our survival is... Our safety rating.

I could not agreee with your assesment more.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

The major reason you are able to call in fatigue or call the chief pilot with a safety issue is because you have a union.

NEGATIVE!


NJI/Exxon Mobile/Dominion Resources/Tag Aviation/Texas Instruments/HP/Microsoft/Satrbucks Coffee/Harley Davidson/IBM/Chevron Oil.... and about 125 other companies

Have excellent safety records and proticals... and none are, or were union.

Put down the Jimmy Hoffa baby bottle and open your eyes. The more you type on this forum, the dumber you make yourself look.

 

[CA1900]

Wolf, a friend of mine was hauled into CMH to explain himself, and threatened with termination, for refusing a trip for fatigue. (This was before we had a provision for it in our contract and before 91k prospective rest.) He was worked from 2am to 2pm, and briefed to start a full 14-hour day at 11am the next day. He went to bed at midnight, the phone rang five minutes later, and they told him he had a transcon roundtrip leaving in an hour.

So yes, when dealing with NJA, a union is why we have those fatigue protections. Other companies don't play those games, but NJA does.