Rip nji

[Jack Mehoff]

I don't want to speak for CRJ, but when we return is a long time off. In the meantime there are more pressing issues for those of us looking for work.

Hey don't worry. NJASAP is hard at work helping you all find jobs.

 

[netjetwife]

Which is why it makes sense for those still on the line to focus on Union/flying issues while the furloughed pilots make finding an interim job top priority right now. A smooth transition to a unified NJ pilotgroup is in everyone's interest --albeit some will benefit sooner than others.

Luckily the NJ contract has indefinite recall rights, but I hope you can exercise them sooner rather than later. Hang in there guys! NJW

 

[HazMat]

CRJ most of us get what you are saying. I would just give up on the others. The reality is they would feel entirely different if they were out of work. I wonder if they really know how mistreated some of their former coworkers feel like. I have had the fortune of meeting some of the furloughed and it ain't right.

Netjetwife maybe you can explain why they can't have access to the message board. Are they not as important as the employed?

 

[Jack Mehoff]

Which is why it makes sense for those still on the line to focus on Union/flying issues while the furloughed pilots make finding an interim job top priority right now. A smooth transition to a unified NJ pilotgroup is in everyone's interest --albeit some will benefit sooner than others.

Luckily the NJ contract has indefinite recall rights, but I hope you can exercise them sooner rather than later. Hang in there guys! NJW

Wife I was being sarcastic! The furloughs got thrown out with the trash. NJASAP hasn't done anything but a dog and pony show to help get us jobs. or stand up for us. Our indefinite recall willl most likely be sold to profit the active pilots. I say this because there are many greedy pilots trying to profit off the furloughed pilots. I'm guessing you're a promoter of taking extended days while guys are on the street. Until you're out trying to find a job in this market please stfu!

 

[CRJFlyer]

Thank you CRJFlyer! And good luck.

Thanks, Fortunately I had a few friends in the right places. Flying less and making more than at NJA. But I got really lucky. Just want people to atleast think before they start the compalining about which bigger jet they should be flying.

 

[CRJFlyer]

That was a good post, but the reality of it is that the arguments that are being posted above are making sure that the place you are returning to is the same place or better that you were furloughed from.

That bitching about the seat is the protection that will allow you to one day accept that seat. Hopefully soon.

So while it my sound like something little and bitchy, its that little thing that could be a problem for the pilots as a whole for a long long time. Yeah the little things do matter and a GV seat is not just a little thing.

I appreciate the fact your furloughed but I take exception to your thinking this is bitching. Its fighting and protecting every inch of the job.

Not pointing a finger at you. But in my view (even if I was still at NJA) I wouldn't have had the chance to fly a G product anyways. So with the addition of them doesn't/wouldn't make me feel any different about them. Also think about those who would be forced to leave the G because they were too junior to hold it now. "your" gain will be someone elses loss. The product wasn't there before, so now that it has been merged doesn't really change your quality of life now. IMO

I understand "sticking with the CBA" etc. This isn't my first or second rodeo, but junior guys flying an aircraft that someone elses seniority could hold isn't that big of deal. Then again I have a large enough man member already so I don't need to stroke it..

No offense intended, just my personal perspective on the grand scheme of things.

 

[CRJFlyer]

Our indefinite recall willl most likely be sold to profit the active pilots. I say this because there are many greedy pilots trying to profit off the furloughed pilots.

Apparently Luthi is willing to take some cash to open up the LOA...Just a matter of time before some cash will take care of matters concerning the 495.

 

[netjetwife]

Wife I was being sarcastic! I thought I would be posting right after Opec so I didn't quote him. I got your sarcasm.. The furloughs got thrown out with the trash. If that was true there wouldn't have been so much effort put into the VOLUNTARY MEASURES that held the furlough off for almost a year. NJASAP hasn't done anything but a dog and pony show to help get us jobs or stand up for us. Contract provisions like accrued seniority during the furlough are there because the Union negotiated for them. The VMs that kept you employed longer were initiated, and mostly designed, by NJASAP. They refunded your dues, made a large donation to the NJFF to make sure grants were available for you, and arranged for you to get preferential interviews at EJM. Just to name a few things.... The FWG has worked very hard on your behalf. Which of their efforts do you find offensive and what specifically would you like for them to do? indefinite recall willl most likely be sold to profit the active pilots. Not that they would do that, but there is no reason the Company would pay for something that is primarily a benefit to pilots. That said, it is in their interest to bring back pilots who already have NJ experience so there's no reason to change that...:erm: I say this because there are many greedy pilots trying to profit off the furloughed pilots. Your accusation is baseless... Those are the same pilots, my husband included, who gave up income doing the VMs to put extra money in your pockets. I'm guessing you're a promoter of taking extended days while guys are on the street. That's even more off-target than your last insult... I have a documented history here of promoting worthwhile Union objectives like the VMs and of supporting the cause of ALL under-paid pilots, especially those trying to support a family. Until you're out trying to find a job in this market please stfu! There's no need to ask how you're coping with the furlough...:erm:

Jack, many NJA families sacrificed a lot to make it a place you wanted to work. They collectively gave again to try to keep you employed. The economy is the enemy--NOT your fellow pilots or NJASAP leaders.

Haz, to answer your question: 1) NJASAP is obligated to safeguard confidential NJ information that gets posted in the Crew Room. There would be no deterrent (like losing active employment) to prevent furloughed pilots from revealing that info to an unauthorized source, especially for those with a new employer who weren't intending to return to NJ. Other areas of the message board remain open to furloughed pilots and they have been given their own section of the board. 2) See the unwarranted insults and groundless accusations above. Some NJ pilots are concerned that they will be subjected to this type of behavior from bitter furloughees taking their stress and/or anger out on the very pilots who made NJA the flying career that attracted them in the first place. I did not want to believe that would happen, but this thread has been an eye-opener. If it can happen to such a staunch supporter of the NJ FOs, like myself, then it would very likely happen in the NJASAP Crew Room.

 

[Hogprint]

That was a good post, but the reality of it is that the arguments that are being posted above are making sure that the place you are returning to is the same place or better that you were furloughed from.

That bitching about the seat is the protection that will allow you to one day accept that seat. Hopefully soon.

So while it my sound like something little and bitchy, its that little thing that could be a problem for the pilots as a whole for a long long time. Yeah the little things do matter and a GV seat is not just a little thing.

I appreciate the fact your furloughed but I take exception to your thinking this is bitching. Its fighting and protecting every inch of the job.

Amen +2...

Read it. Learn it. Live it. Well said Diesel.

 

[HazMat]

Netjetwife 1 is total bs. They get the the info from their friends who still work there. Please tell me you are not this naive. (2) the real reason for not allowing them on the board shows a total lack of respect for the unemployed. Man up and take the criticism otherwise things don't change for the better. Are the union officials so sensitive they couldn't handle frustration and anger from the very people they are supposed to represent. What a complete farce. There are so many things that could have been done to save jobs for instance less crew meals or stay in less expensive hotels etc, etc. Even if these things would have only saved a small percentage of jobs wouldn't it have been worth it. Instead it sounds like the I got mine attitude.

By the way your rant is very different then when you came on here several years ago crying about living below the poverty line. Try thinking back to those days and try it with no income. Maybe your perception will change but I doubt it

 

[RNObased]

There are so many things that could have been done to save jobs for instance less crew meals or stay in less expensive hotels etc, etc.

Or maybe would could have started to charge a baggage fee!!

If you don't see as a positive sign for your future employment at NJA, then I don't know what to tell you. This is a good thing, even if you are furloughed.

I'm dying to know what the Bubba Club is going to do?? This is possibly the worst news ever for them.

 

[gret]

Just curious, is NJ really going to have G650s? Does anyone have a handle on the number of excess a/c in the fleet today and have they been successful in selling off this excess? Until this matter is resolved, does it make sense to add to the fleet?

It seems that there are still more shares being redeemed versus those being sold so the excess has to be increasing and given that most new a/c orders have been cancelled, why would one think that they will be rushing out to buy the new Gulfstream?

The discussion about who may be flying which a/c may be relatively moot.

 

[gunfyter]

There are so many things that could have been done to save jobs for instance less crew meals or stay in less expensive hotels etc, etc. Even if these things would have only saved a small percentage of jobs wouldn't it have been worth it.

Not one job would be saved by anything like that....

Concessions DON'T save jobs.

Even CRJ will agree with me on that....


The only thing that will save jobs or start recalls is more flying and aircraft sales. The largest part of that depends on the economy (and Tax Cuts for the Rich)... When you see the DOW rising toward its former Highs ... then there will be recalls.

Lots of flying and aircraft sales created all these jobs to begin with. Not me sleeping in a flea bag motel with the springs digging into my back or eating bologna sandwiches.

 

[Jack Mehoff]

Jack, many NJA families sacrificed a lot to make it a place you wanted to work. Actually no they didn't. They majority of the VMs were done by pilots under the gun. MANY pilots who were in the retirement age and COULD retire with military or other pensions did not take the very profitable early outs for the simple reason of "I could retire, but I want to go out and fly a jet few times a month" I had many pilots tell me this in person. They collectively gave again to try to keep you employed. The economy is the enemy--NOT your fellow pilots or NJASAP leaders. Yes the economy is along with the current NJASAP leaders. The current NJA leaders are the ones that at the last minute locked us off the Eboard and did not push the issues of the seniority resignation process. NJASAP also allowed EJM to grow and take up 90% of the sell offs during the peak travel days with out hiring any furloughs (rumored 3 were hired). Now DS wants some relief on the sell off clause in the contract and who do you think will take up the increased selloffs?

You need to seriously think about the realities of the over 800 NJA employees that have lost jobs in the last 6 months. You don't understand what the F*&K you are talking about. Unless you were out on the line in the months leading to the Furlough or have been out on the street looking for work then you seriously need to shut your talk hole!

Haz, to answer your question: 1) NJASAP is obligated to safeguard confidential NJ information that gets posted in the Crew Room. There would be no deterrent (like losing active employment) to prevent furloughed pilots from revealing that info to an unauthorized source, especially for those with a new employer who weren't intending to return to NJ. Other areas of the message board remain open to furloughed pilots and they have been given their own section of the board. 2) See the unwarranted insults and groundless accusations above. Some NJ pilots are concerned that they will be subjected to this type of behavior from bitter furloughees taking their stress and/or anger out on the very pilots who made NJA the flying career that attracted them in the first place. I did not want to believe that would happen, but this thread has been an eye-opener. If it can happen to such a staunch supporter of the NJ FOs, like myself, then it would very likely happen in the NJASAP Crew Room.

That is a weak excuse for what happened. They could have put in a "read only" option for the furloughs as originally discussed. Then at 2359 on 1/14/10 they locked us out so no one could bitch about the last minute "switch-arou" black out. There were more then a few pilots promoting VOL for extended days during the furlough because "they were here during the pre 05 bad times and earned the right to pad their wallets while helping the company out". They claimed this would help get us furloughs back faster. THIS IS TOTAL BS! The way you run your mouth it seems like your husband is one of these pilots. You have no idea what you're talking about so please STFU!

 

[HazMat]

Blah blah blah I got mine that's all I hear

 

[ozpilot]

That is a weak excuse for what happened. They could have put in a "read only" option for the furloughs as originally discussed. Then at 2359 on 1/14/10 they locked us out so no one could bitch about the last minute "switch-arou" black out. There were more then a few pilots promoting VOL for extended days during the furlough because "they were here during the pre 05 bad times and earned the right to pad their wallets while helping the company out". They claimed this would help get us furloughs back faster. THIS IS TOTAL BS! The way you run your mouth it seems like your husband is one of these pilots. You have no idea what you're talking about so please STFU!

Leaving aside the pros and cons? of allowing access, the decision should have been taken by the pilots. I'm tired of the E board making unilateral decisions because "we know whats best for the pilots".

 

[Jack Mehoff]

Leaving aside the pros and cons? of allowing access, the decision should have been taken by the pilots. I'm tired of the E board making unilateral decisions because "we know whats best for the pilots".

This is the main problem I have with the Eboad and the "05 Hero crowd" The Eboard doesn't listen to anyone. There is also a select group of pilots that feel that because they were at NJA pre 05 they know everything and have the right to do as they feel. Any attempt to discuss anything with them ends with the line "I was here before the 05 contract and you were not. There for you can't possibly know what you're talking about.

There has been a 2 class pilot group ever since the 05 contract because of Union's lack of unity.

 

[Diesel]

The biggest cluster F during the furloughs is the resignation letter fiasco. The union kept saying the company won't do anything unethical and we accept that. WTF I guess american was one big unethical company when you could send in as many resignation letters as you wanted and they weren't going to do a damn thing because there was no way to verify the letter was sent by the furloughee. They just felt it was better to throw those letters away and if they turn down the recall then that's proof that they didn't want to come back.

But oh no the Union AND the company had to reinvent the wheel. Why? Out of sight out of mind is my guess. I think that is at least one bone we could have thrown the furloughees.

 

[Diesel]

There are so many things that could have been done to save jobs for instance less crew meals or stay in less expensive hotels etc, etc. Even if these things would have only saved a small percentage of jobs wouldn't it have been worth it.

This is a lot like fuel savings. I could save fuel my whole life here at NJA but one ferry from london to teb and that is out the window and then some. Staying in cheaper hotels, and degrading the QOL for ALL is not the answer. The savings would have been negligible and it would have avoided any real accountability in certain departments that were blowing through money quicker than charlie sheen goes through hookers.

 

[RP170]

But oh no the Union AND the company had to reinvent the wheel. Why? Out of sight out of mind is my guess. I think that is at least one bone we could have thrown the furloughees.

Why? I agree with your out of sight out of mind theory. But it will also save the company money to get guys off the seniority list since our seniority continues to accrue while on furlough. You know they would love for all of us to resign so they could hire a bunch of guys on first year pay when recalls and hiring occurs, instead of bringing guys back on year 7-8 pay.

Why? Because the company is being run by a bunch of f'ing bean counters. Good luck with that business model when running a luxury service. The market share will continue to go elsewhere. Trying to convert to an LCC of the fractional market is not something to be proud of. Especially when your prices continue to rise and the product gets cheaper and cheaper. And the fleet gets older and older. It won't take the rich folks too long to see right through this.