Republic/Frontier/Midwest SLI Arbitration?

[StaySeated]

I too would love to see FAPA's phone records. SWAPA put out a time line of all the events that took place and gave it to it's membership. After the insane intro by FAPA (lifetime furlough pay,domicle rights, lifetime medical, ect. ROFL) communication was non existant. SWAPA had it's team all waiting in a room to hammer out some details but FAPA was unreachable. The FAPA team never wanted LUV/F9 deal in the first place because they thought they would be yanking gear in an 300 the rest of their lives.

What about the FO's on the "FAPA team"? They definitely would be against "yanking gear in an (sic) 300". Wait, they are yanking gear already, for much less pay. They "never wanted LUV/F9"?

What about the members of the "FAPA team" that commuted to Denver from SWA domiciles? But they wanted to continue to commute, for less pay. They "never wanted LUV/F9"?

I reallize that none of these little details support your insane conspiracy theory. You are right, it was Stemmler, from the grassy knoll. Or was it Bedford from the school book depository? (Did you happen to read my previous post, the one with all of the words?)

N1, you apparently started at EJA and went directly to SWA. I am rather dumbfounded by your fascination with F9, and apparent anger towards our pilot group. Were you looking forward to a Denver domicile? Sorry we couldn't accommodate your immediate needs.

This has almost become funny if it wasn't so amazingly sad. I am not sure which part of this is more sad. The fact that more than a year later a bunch of supposed SWAPA pilots continue to trot out an email/"time line" and stand behind that as fact, without one iota of supporting documentation. Or the fact that some of you actually seem to gain some form of pathetic, sadistic pleasure in the potential demise or hardship in another pilot group.

If this whole thing unwinds, I will make one final post and include the two emails that SWAPA/Tom sent FAPA on that fateful Thursday. Yup, two emails. The best part about the emails is not necessarily the two sentences in the body of the email (yup, two sentences), but the time they were sent. The phones (mobiles, office, fax) didn't ring once. Anyone that claims something different is 100% disingenuous. You can attempt to rewrite history, but in this digital age, you will eventually be proven a fraud.

 

[N1atEcon]

No anger here. Just curious why you didn't mention FAPA's opener? You and I know any company in the world would not agree to lifetime anything. So was that stonewalling, sabotage, shooting for the moon? Or was it FAPA's way of putting something out that could never be attained so they could say to the working dogs "hey this is what we wanted to get for you and they said no"????

 

[StaySeated]

No anger here. Just curious why you didn't mention FAPA's opener? You and I know any company in the world would not agree to lifetime anything. So was that stonewalling, sabotage, shooting for the moon? Or was it FAPA's way of putting something out that could never be attained so they could say to the working dogs "hey this is what we wanted to get for you and they said no"????

N1. I didn't mention a lot of components because they are meaningless to the end result.

You and I are not tracking the same course here.

You believe that there was a deal to be made and FAPA somehow, intentionally or unintentionally, busted the deal.

I believe that there was potential for a deal, but given the time constraints and the tactics employed (SWAPA removing the backstop of Arbitration being one example) made the goal of coming to an agreement an impossibility.

You brought up "FAPA's Opener". I believe you are one of those folks that believe FAPA proposed "relative seniority", among other things. If you believe that you are wrong, which brings me to one of my main points.

You think you know, but you don't. And you are taking inaccuracies and running with them, running fast and loudly.

FAPA's integration proposal was to plug #1 FAPA pilot in the SWAPA list at his DOH, and then integrate the rest of the FAPA pilots with a ratio of "X", the ratio was never identified. If the #1 pilot on the FAPA list were to join the SWAPA list along-side SWAPA pilots with a DOH of 1994, you have eliminated the concept of "relative" seniority with just one pilot. Relative seniority was never on the table.

I could go on and on and on and on (wait, I think I am already guilty of that) about the myriad of other assumptions that you think are accurate (lifetime this and lifetime that) but are actually completely wrong. But I won't.

Maybe we should just agree to disagree.

 

[N1atEcon]

I agree to disagree.

There is FAPA's version, there is SWAPA's version. There is no doubt there was very little sand in the hour glass when the SWA offer was released. I personally think the FAPA was a pawns used by both Bedford and GK. I think Bedford thought he could run the price up and make the competition pay more to get F9 and I think Gary knew there was no way the unions would agree to get it done before the auction date so SWA got to see all the numbers. As you can see by the Airtran offer, GK said we are going to do this (pending approval of Uncle Sam) and you labor groups work it out later.

 

[GFunk20]

...and now Gary has expanded the entire C concourse with 150 flights a day. Imagine that.

and yes, good call, yanking gear in a -300 for $140,000 is just misery.

 

[StaySeated]

...and now Gary has expanded the entire C concourse with 150 flights a day. Imagine that.

and yes, good call, yanking gear in a -300 for $140,000 is just misery.

Thank god, another SWA pilot joins the fray, and apparently doesn't bother reading the past several pages. Great addition funk, keep yanking!

 

[Bolo]

...and now Gary has expanded the entire C concourse with 150 flights a day. Imagine that.

and yes, good call, yanking gear in a -300 for $140,000 is just misery.

GFunk, pretty arrogant on your part. First get the facts before you go spouting out your pay rates and yanking gear. Some of us at F9 would never throw our fellow pilots (junior) under the bus. It sounds like you would with your bantering. Good luck in your SLI and enjoy yanking gear the rest of your career!

 

[chqflyer]

GFunk, pretty arrogant on your part. First get the facts before you go spouting out your pay rates and yanking gear. Some of us at F9 would never throw our fellow pilots (junior) under the bus. It sounds like you would with your bantering. Good luck in your SLI and enjoy yanking gear the rest of your career!

There's no arrogance there. Being furloughed from SWA is still light years better than being employed by RAH. Have you failed to notice the utter implosion of RAH over the last month? At the current rate, we're done by summer.

 

[Vegaspilot99]

There's no arrogance there. Being furloughed from SWA is still light years better than being employed by RAH. Have you failed to notice the utter implosion of RAH over the last month? At the current rate, we're done by summer.

What do you mean by implosion? I've been holding off on a class to see how the SLI goes first, but any info would be appreciated.

 

[sshrae]

There's no arrogance there. Being furloughed from SWA is still light years better than being employed by RAH. Have you failed to notice the utter implosion of RAH over the last month? At the current rate, we're done by summer.

There was no recall rights for the furloughed f9at swa. You might be right about rah though. If you are rah and have a class somewhere else I dedinitely would not hold out for a airbus seat that will take years if ever for you at f9.

 

[chqflyer]

What do you mean by implosion? I've been holding off on a class to see how the SLI goes first, but any info would be appreciated.

We've experienced quite a few operational meltdowns recently ranging from computer network issues down to severe crew shortages. HQ just now seems to be noticing the staffing shortage. Any near term hiring still could not cover the massive attrition. The ultra lean staffing model is really biting them in the butt even with massive numbers of pilots picking up as much extra flying that's available.

 

[CFI]

We've experienced quite a few operational meltdowns recently ranging from computer network issues down to severe crew shortages. HQ just now seems to be noticing the staffing shortage. Any near term hiring still could not cover the massive attrition. The ultra lean staffing model is really biting them in the butt even with massive numbers of pilots picking up as much extra flying that's available.

So nice of them to keep on picking up all of that open time with hundreds on the street. Keep it classy guys.

 

[Bolo]

We've experienced quite a few operational meltdowns recently ranging from computer network issues down to severe crew shortages. HQ just now seems to be noticing the staffing shortage. Any near term hiring still could not cover the massive attrition. The ultra lean staffing model is really biting them in the butt even with massive numbers of pilots picking up as much extra flying that's available.

That severe shortage and lack of crews must be on the RAH certificates because I do not see it on the Airbus side. CHQFLYER how much do you want to bet that this company of ours will be around after summer? You are speaking for the RAH side of things right? Over here on the F9 side of it, things seem to be alright. I have not seen the sky falling like you are saying. The only meltdowns I have seen is due to weather and almost every airline has experienced this this winter.

 

[Bolo]

There's no arrogance there. Being furloughed from SWA is still light years better than being employed by RAH. Have you failed to notice the utter implosion of RAH over the last month? At the current rate, we're done by summer.

Again an individual that does not have the facts straight. As SSHRAE pointed out(post #90) there would not have been any recall rights for the approximate 160 pilots that would have been furloughed at F9. CHQFLYER, you are right we would have been light years better off at SWA for us senior guys while throwing our fellow junior pilots under the BUS! Before you go spouting off, PLEASE get your FACTS straight.
If you have something to bring to the table(FACTS) by all means I am all ears.

 

[Black Sheep]

Again an individual that does not have the facts straight. As SSHRAE pointed out(post #90) there would not have been any recall rights for the approximate 160 pilots that would have been furloughed at F9. CHQFLYER, you are right we would have been light years better off at SWA for us senior guys while throwing our fellow junior pilots under the BUS! Before you go spouting off, PLEASE get your FACTS straight.
If you have something to bring to the table(FACTS) by all means I am all ears.

So what makes you think the new SLI will not throw your fellow junior pilots under the BUS ?

 

[chqflyer]

That severe shortage and lack of crews must be on the RAH certificates because I do not see it on the Airbus side. CHQFLYER how much do you want to bet that this company of ours will be around after summer? You are speaking for the RAH side of things right? Over here on the F9 side of it, things seem to be alright. I have not seen the sky falling like you are saying. The only meltdowns I have seen is due to weather and almost every airline has experienced this this winter.

Yes the issues are on the regional side of the house. I am truly sorry that we might drag you guys down with us.

 

[GuppyWN]

Again an individual that does not have the facts straight. As SSHRAE pointed out(post #90) there would not have been any recall rights for the approximate 160 pilots that would have been furloughed at F9. CHQFLYER, you are right we would have been light years better off at SWA for us senior guys while throwing our fellow junior pilots under the BUS! Before you go spouting off, PLEASE get your FACTS straight.
If you have something to bring to the table(FACTS) by all means I am all ears.

I just can't quit butting in.

Do you have the FACTS to back up what you say?

Gup

 

[Bolo]

I just can't quit butting in.

Do you have the FACTS to back up what you say?

Gup

I do! Now about the butting in part, enjoy your career at SWA making your 140,000. I wish you a long and prosperous career and I do mean that. No ill will.

 

[Bolo]

So what makes you think the new SLI will not throw your fellow junior pilots under the BUS ?

Our lead negotiator for FAPA is an FO so I can assure you we did not throw any of our pilots under the BUS. All entities got to present their case and arbitrator Eischen will decide everybody's fate. So to answer your question it may or not be favorable for F9 FO's. Remember Black Sheep no STS no implementation of SLI. Do not forget the possible fence as well.

 

[Flying Illini]

So nice of them to keep on picking up all of that open time with hundreds on the street. Keep it classy guys.

Actually, what's hurting the company on the RW certificate (Republic) is the LACK of people picking up open-time. Each week that goes by fewer and fewer pilots pick up/do favors because they are realizing (finally) that the company does not remember, nor care, that you helped them out. I wish everyone would just stop helping the company out. As far as the guys on the street, I see and agree with what you are saying buuuuuut those people on the street are not on our seniority list yet so b/c of that technicality the few that do pick up open-time don't have that on their conscience...yet.

That severe shortage and lack of crews must be on the RAH certificates because I do not see it on the Airbus side. CHQFLYER how much do you want to bet that this company of ours will be around after summer? You are speaking for the RAH side of things right? Over here on the F9 side of it, things seem to be alright. I have not seen the sky falling like you are saying. The only meltdowns I have seen is due to weather and almost every airline has experienced this this winter.

That's correct. F9 is still operating "status quo." Give it time, give it time. My own personal theory is that RAH is protecting the branded flying at the expense of the FFD flying. That explains why the RW (Republic) certificate in particular is hurting soooooo badly for pilots. I can't prove it but it certainly fits.

The weather meltdowns have only exacerbated the situation by exposing just how understaffed we are (from CS to DX to the flight crews).


The writing is on the wall, at least for the FFD side. Oh, did you hear, BB mentioned in his Undercover Boss episode that he was returning the 10% pay-cut that the F9 employees took. Well, actually he meant that he would recommend to the board that they return the paycut over 3 years. Now it's starting to sound as though the board is going to deny this due to money being so tight.