Republic/Frontier/Midwest SLI Arbitration?

[GuppyWN]

We will never know whether Gary would have raised his bid because Stemler stonewalled SWAPA on that Thursday and didn't return at least 4 phone calls to attempt a negotiation.

I guess the parties were strung out between Denver, Dallas and DC but from what we were told there wasn't much of an effort on FAPA's part.

Gup

Gup

 

[StaySeated]

We will never know whether Gary would have raised his bid because Stemler stonewalled SWAPA on that Thursday and didn't return at least 4 phone calls to attempt a negotiation.

I guess the parties were strung out between Denver, Dallas and DC but from what we were told there wasn't much of an effort on FAPA's part.

Gup

Gup

Hey Gup, thanks for visiting yet another F9 thread. I realize that you have been told this story and you believe it to be true. I understand. With that being said, do you have any idea how many folks were in the FAPA office the day after the web-conference? There were several, and the phone didn't ring. I imagine if the President couldn't be reached on his cell, one would try the office. Or perhaps one of the other folks that participated in the web-conference? Maybe even an email as a last resort? I told you before, there wasn't a "stonewall". There were no calls from Karl or anyone from SWAPA, period.


I actually wish one of these discontents would sue FAPA for DFR and everything from the phone records to the web-conference would become public record.

Regardless, you will believe what you want to believe and that is just fine. I genuinely wish SWAPA and Airtran ALPA the best in their own SLI, I hope that it works out well for all involved.

 

[GuppyWN]

Trying to stay neutral!

Are you saying there was a good faith attempt by FAPA to negotiate? If so then what was your first offer? What was your final offer?

If, as you say is the case, you weren't getting phone calls from SWAPA then why didn't YOU call?

I think the whole thing stinks and I've stated so many times. I would have loved to have the Frontier AND the Lynx pilots on our list.

Good luck with your SLI as well. Don't care whose fault it is you should have been SWA pilots.

Gup

Gup

 

[USMC319]

I think the whole thing stinks and I've stated so many times. I would have loved to have the Frontier AND the Lynx pilots on our list.
Good luck with your SLI as well. Don't care whose fault it is you should have been SWA pilots.
Gup
Gup

Gup,
As much as I thought a "staple job" at SWA would blow, and would have preferred to remain an independant airline with financially sound ownership, in retrospect I agree with you and wish we could have come together. I think our (WN-F9) cultures are much more similar than the ones we (WN-FL vs F9-RAH) are respectively trying to cobble together now.

 

[N1atEcon]

I too would love to see FAPA's phone records. SWAPA put out a time line of all the events that took place and gave it to it's membership. After the insane intro by FAPA (lifetime furlough pay,domicle rights, lifetime medical, ect. ROFL) communication was non existant. SWAPA had it's team all waiting in a room to hammer out some details but FAPA was unreachable. The FAPA team never wanted LUV/F9 deal in the first place because they thought they would be yanking gear in an 300 the rest of their lives.

 

[StaySeated]

I too would love to see FAPA's phone records. SWAPA put out a time line of all the events that took place and gave it to it's membership. After the insane intro by FAPA (lifetime furlough pay,domicle rights, lifetime medical, ect. ROFL) communication was non existant. SWAPA had it's team all waiting in a room to hammer out some details but FAPA was unreachable. The FAPA team never wanted LUV/F9 deal in the first place because they thought they would be yanking gear in an 300 the rest of their lives.

What about the FO's on the "FAPA team"? They definitely would be against "yanking gear in an (sic) 300". Wait, they are yanking gear already, for much less pay. They "never wanted LUV/F9"?

What about the members of the "FAPA team" that commuted to Denver from SWA domiciles? But they wanted to continue to commute, for less pay. They "never wanted LUV/F9"?

I reallize that none of these little details support your insane conspiracy theory. You are right, it was Stemmler, from the grassy knoll. Or was it Bedford from the school book depository? (Did you happen to read my previous post, the one with all of the words?)

N1, you apparently started at EJA and went directly to SWA. I am rather dumbfounded by your fascination with F9, and apparent anger towards our pilot group. Were you looking forward to a Denver domicile? Sorry we couldn't accommodate your immediate needs.

This has almost become funny if it wasn't so amazingly sad. I am not sure which part of this is more sad. The fact that more than a year later a bunch of supposed SWAPA pilots continue to trot out an email/"time line" and stand behind that as fact, without one iota of supporting documentation. Or the fact that some of you actually seem to gain some form of pathetic, sadistic pleasure in the potential demise or hardship in another pilot group.

If this whole thing unwinds, I will make one final post and include the two emails that SWAPA/Tom sent FAPA on that fateful Thursday. Yup, two emails. The best part about the emails is not necessarily the two sentences in the body of the email (yup, two sentences), but the time they were sent. The phones (mobiles, office, fax) didn't ring once. Anyone that claims something different is 100% disingenuous. You can attempt to rewrite history, but in this digital age, you will eventually be proven a fraud.

 

[N1atEcon]

No anger here. Just curious why you didn't mention FAPA's opener? You and I know any company in the world would not agree to lifetime anything. So was that stonewalling, sabotage, shooting for the moon? Or was it FAPA's way of putting something out that could never be attained so they could say to the working dogs "hey this is what we wanted to get for you and they said no"????

 

[StaySeated]

No anger here. Just curious why you didn't mention FAPA's opener? You and I know any company in the world would not agree to lifetime anything. So was that stonewalling, sabotage, shooting for the moon? Or was it FAPA's way of putting something out that could never be attained so they could say to the working dogs "hey this is what we wanted to get for you and they said no"????

N1. I didn't mention a lot of components because they are meaningless to the end result.

You and I are not tracking the same course here.

You believe that there was a deal to be made and FAPA somehow, intentionally or unintentionally, busted the deal.

I believe that there was potential for a deal, but given the time constraints and the tactics employed (SWAPA removing the backstop of Arbitration being one example) made the goal of coming to an agreement an impossibility.

You brought up "FAPA's Opener". I believe you are one of those folks that believe FAPA proposed "relative seniority", among other things. If you believe that you are wrong, which brings me to one of my main points.

You think you know, but you don't. And you are taking inaccuracies and running with them, running fast and loudly.

FAPA's integration proposal was to plug #1 FAPA pilot in the SWAPA list at his DOH, and then integrate the rest of the FAPA pilots with a ratio of "X", the ratio was never identified. If the #1 pilot on the FAPA list were to join the SWAPA list along-side SWAPA pilots with a DOH of 1994, you have eliminated the concept of "relative" seniority with just one pilot. Relative seniority was never on the table.

I could go on and on and on and on (wait, I think I am already guilty of that) about the myriad of other assumptions that you think are accurate (lifetime this and lifetime that) but are actually completely wrong. But I won't.

Maybe we should just agree to disagree.

 

[N1atEcon]

I agree to disagree.

There is FAPA's version, there is SWAPA's version. There is no doubt there was very little sand in the hour glass when the SWA offer was released. I personally think the FAPA was a pawns used by both Bedford and GK. I think Bedford thought he could run the price up and make the competition pay more to get F9 and I think Gary knew there was no way the unions would agree to get it done before the auction date so SWA got to see all the numbers. As you can see by the Airtran offer, GK said we are going to do this (pending approval of Uncle Sam) and you labor groups work it out later.

 

[GFunk20]

...and now Gary has expanded the entire C concourse with 150 flights a day. Imagine that.

and yes, good call, yanking gear in a -300 for $140,000 is just misery.

 

[StaySeated]

...and now Gary has expanded the entire C concourse with 150 flights a day. Imagine that.

and yes, good call, yanking gear in a -300 for $140,000 is just misery.

Thank god, another SWA pilot joins the fray, and apparently doesn't bother reading the past several pages. Great addition funk, keep yanking!

 

[Bolo]

...and now Gary has expanded the entire C concourse with 150 flights a day. Imagine that.

and yes, good call, yanking gear in a -300 for $140,000 is just misery.

GFunk, pretty arrogant on your part. First get the facts before you go spouting out your pay rates and yanking gear. Some of us at F9 would never throw our fellow pilots (junior) under the bus. It sounds like you would with your bantering. Good luck in your SLI and enjoy yanking gear the rest of your career!

 

[chqflyer]

GFunk, pretty arrogant on your part. First get the facts before you go spouting out your pay rates and yanking gear. Some of us at F9 would never throw our fellow pilots (junior) under the bus. It sounds like you would with your bantering. Good luck in your SLI and enjoy yanking gear the rest of your career!

There's no arrogance there. Being furloughed from SWA is still light years better than being employed by RAH. Have you failed to notice the utter implosion of RAH over the last month? At the current rate, we're done by summer.

 

[Vegaspilot99]

There's no arrogance there. Being furloughed from SWA is still light years better than being employed by RAH. Have you failed to notice the utter implosion of RAH over the last month? At the current rate, we're done by summer.

What do you mean by implosion? I've been holding off on a class to see how the SLI goes first, but any info would be appreciated.

 

[sshrae]

There's no arrogance there. Being furloughed from SWA is still light years better than being employed by RAH. Have you failed to notice the utter implosion of RAH over the last month? At the current rate, we're done by summer.

There was no recall rights for the furloughed f9at swa. You might be right about rah though. If you are rah and have a class somewhere else I dedinitely would not hold out for a airbus seat that will take years if ever for you at f9.