Ramped by 2 airport cops and 2 sheriffs. . .Accused me of a Felony!!!! No Kidding

[SKYLAWYER]

Nope, nope and nope.

Please elaborate. If you doubt the information posted above I would be happy to post a copy of both the federal detainment laws and local detainment laws for wherever you live. You better believe its true. Notice I said detainment MAY last UP TO 24hrs. Often detainment is unlawfull above a couple of hours but may indeed last up to 24hrs in certain instances. Mostly suspicion of murder or major drug cases where your release may cause you to flee but there is insufficient evidence at the time to charge you.

 

[FN FAL]

Geez... Once again, we have FN FAL donning the tin foil conspiracy hat again...

Isn't it magical that you appear, just at this very moment. Things that make you say, hmmmmm.

 

[iflyabeech]

Isn't it magical that you appear, just at this very moment. Things that make you say, hmmmmm.

Please find someone else's thread to hijack.

 

[FN FAL]

Please elaborate. If you doubt the information posted above I would be happy to post a copy of both the federal detainment laws and local detainment laws for wherever you live. You better believe its true. Notice I said detainment MAY last UP TO 24hrs. Often detainment is unlawfull above a couple of hours but may indeed last up to 24hrs in certain instances. Mostly suspicion of murder or major drug cases where your release may cause you to flee but there is insufficient evidence at the time to charge you.

You must have been thinking of the U.K. rules.

I can't imagine any attorney saying this...

detainment can last as much as 24 hours im many circumstances without arrest. You can be hauled downtown to answer questions and sit there talking to detectives, waiting for responses from the FAA, and all other sorts of administratived details without being arrested. Being put into handcuffs does not always constitute an arrest.

http://courts.co.calhoun.mi.us/book005.htm#YOU%20MAY%20BE%20STOPPED

This pamphlet provides information on your rights if you are stopped, searched, or arrested by a police officer.

Law enforcement officials have the duty to protect the community, its citizens and their property according to the law. The law gives them certain rights in order to perform this duty. They must make arrests when necessary to uphold law and order.

It is a crime to resist an officer who lawfully arrests you. If it turns out that you have been arrested unlawfully, you may sue the police officer for false arrest, but the arrest or detention may be lawful even if you are innocent.
You also have rights when you are arrested and you should know what some of them are.


YOU MAY BE STOPPED OR DETAINED WITHOUT BEING ARRESTED

A law enforcement officer may ask you to identify yourself or question you briefly without arresting you. If the officer has reason to believe that you are carrying a concealed weapon and that you may be dangerous to the officer or others, the officer may conduct a limited search for their safety. If this search reveals what feels like a weapon, the officer may search for and remove the object. The officer must return any lawful object found unless you are placed under arrest. The search is limited to objects which feel like weapons. You may have a constitutional right not to answer questions that an officer asks. Nonetheless, it is advisable to provide your name, address and identification if so requested. At the conclusion of questioning and the search, the officer must either arrest you or release you.

AN ARREST

When a law enforcement officer takes you into custody or otherwise significantly deprives you of your freedom in order to hold you to answer for a crime, you have been arrested.

A POLICE OFFICER CAN USE FORCE TO ARREST YOU

An officer may use any reasonable force necessary to arrest you and to keep you under arrest. Never resist the officer, and never interfere with an officer if someone else is being arrested. If you believe that your rights are being violated, remember exactly what the police officer does and tell your attorney about it at the earliest opportunity.

WARNINGS

Police officers do not have to inform you of your rights until after you are arrested, and then only if they want to question you. If you are arrested, with or without a warrant, you must be informed why you are being arrested and be brought promptly to a police station.

QUESTIONING

You have a constitutional right to remain silent. This is a very important right and you cannot be punished for remaining silent or have your silence used against you. Constitutional rihts can be waived (given up). Before you say or sign anything, the decision should be carefully made. Anything you say may be used against you in a court of law. If you do answer a question, you may stop at any time and not answer any further questions. You have a right to talk with an attorney before answering any questions. You have a right to have an attorney present if you decide to answer questions. If you cannot afford to hire a private attorney, an attorney will be appointed for you before any further questioning takes place, at your request. If you requested an attorney, questioning must stop until your attorney is present. You may be asked to sign a form, which contains the warnings. By signing this form you are saying that these rights have been explained to you and you understand these rights. You may waive (give up) your right to remain silent or you may speak with an attorney before reaching a decision. If someone promises you something to sign a document, or if you are threatened or forced to sign anything, tell your attorney.

 

[iflyabeech]

FN_FAL can you please chill out and stick to the subject instead of posting all that nonsense. I cooperated with the coppers and that is not the subject of this thread. Please start your own thread if you wish to keep argueing your mute point. Thank you.

 

[SKYLAWYER]

----Very good article you quoted. It comes from a free pamphlet sponsored by the bar association designed to give you legal advice until you are able to discuss the situation with a attorney. I appreciate your point and the quote did give me and my managing partner a good laugh. The source you cited discussed an arrest in 2 sentences. The 2005 Law Journal takes 278 pages to discuss all the circumstances regarding an arrest. I guess the thousands of sentences was just filler material to make us feel better about having to buy thousands of dollars worth of books. Let me give you one real world example that you may be aware of, usually just by watching cops on television. During domestic issues police officers are always required to remove one individual from the home after finding evidence of violence. Even if the other party involved does not want to press charges. Unless the incident happened in plain sight of the public there is no way to press charges as all the evidence is circumstancial.( Can't prove what happened behind close doors without the help of the only other party behind those doors) With this being said how can the police remove an individual without arresting him? mmmmm. According to your source this is impossible, however, it happens every day, and no they are not taking that person to the movies and dinner.
----They have reasonable suspicion and detain the individual even though no formal charges can be placed without the assistance of the battered party. (Why domestic issues usually repeat themselves) Your source was intended to give you a small portion of information, this in now way allows you to correctly analyze all situations, just to give you some information to help you decide if your rights were violated or not. THEN TO FOLLOW UP WITH AN ATTORNEY. What you just gave me was the equivelant of me saying an ILS provides both vertical and lateral guidance. Now go shoot the approach. Shortly after Sept 11, thousands of people in the US with middle-eastern backgrounds were detained for days at a time. Remember the vivid pictures of them being bussed into INS camps and being interviewed by the FBI without being charged for anything? Under you 2 sentence description of an arrest this would have been illegal. Why didn't you grap your handy pamphlet and go to Washington and fight that fight?
----These people were in handcuffs and they were being held against there will. Maybe it was okay with you because you felt it was in the best interest of national security ( the same way the plain clothes sheriff could have felt that this registration issue was in the best interest of national security). Anyway I respect your point and this is MY LAST ENTRY IN THIS THREAD. Iflyabeech you did a good job not only dealing with the situation but bringing it to the attention of your fellow aviators. Someone will read this and be a little more proactive with paperwork issues on thier aircraft and stay out of trouble. This industry needs more individuals like yourself. Goodluck with the A/C and safe flying wishes for you in the future. Fn FAL I will leave you with a well known legal statistic. Less than 1% of cases where individuals charged with a crime who elect to self-represent themselves are won by those individuals. They have access to the same pamphlet you do. LOL

 

[Hold West]

Now, what will the LEO do if I just tell him that I don't have a pilots license? Do any state or local governments have laws that make flying without a license illegal? If not, what basis would they have to demand to inspect your flying certification? Even more interesting to me is this, what are they looking for when they "inspect" my certificate? Are they looking to see if my private certificate allows me to fly a BBJ? Are they checking to see if I FILED A FLIGHT PLAN, so that they can report me to the nearest driveby media outlet.

Yes, they do have such laws. Me & Google are just looking at random states:

Kansas:

3-202

Chapter 3.--AIRCRAFT AND AIRFIELDS Article 2.--REGULATION OF AIRCRAFT 3-202. Pilot's certificate. Any person who navigates any aircraft within this state or uses any aircraft for instruction in the art of navigation, without a pilot's certificate, issued by the department of commerce of the United States, or without a valid certificate of airworthiness for such aircraft, issued by said department of commerce, where such certificate is required shall be punished as hereinafter provided.
History: L. 1931, ch. 6, § 2; March 16.


(isn't that an interesting bit of history! The department of commerce?)


Virginia:



§ 5.1-15. Operation of aircraft by unlicensed persons.
Any person who operates any civil aircraft within the airspace over, above, or upon the lands or waters of this Commonwealth, without being, at the time of such operation, in possession of a valid airman's certificate for such operation, issued under and in accordance with existing federal law shall be deemed to be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
(Code 1950, § 5-10.3; 1966, c. 576; 1988, c. 45.)


Maine:


[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]§202. Prohibitions[/FONT]



3. Service without certificate; exemptions. For any person to serve in any capacity as an airman in connection with any civil aircraft without an airman certificate and current medical certificate issued by the administration authorizing him to serve in that capacity;[FONT=courier, fixed] [1977, c. 678, § 39 (rpr).]
[/FONT]
[FONT=courier, fixed]
California:
[/FONT]
21409. It is unlawful for any person to engage in aeronautics as an
airman in the State unless he has an appropriate effective airman
certificate, permit, rating, or license issued by the United States
authorizing him to engage in the particular class of aeronautics in
which he is engaged, if the certificate, permit, rating, or license
is required by the United States.



21410. Every airman shall keep any certificate, permit, rating, or
license required for him by the United States in his personal
possession when he is operating within the state. He shall present
it for inspection upon the demand of any peace officer, any other
officer of the state or of a political subdivision, or member,
official, or employee of the department, authorized by Section 21252
to enforce the aeronautics laws, or any official, manager, or person
in charge of any airport upon which the airman lands, or upon the
reasonable request of any other person.

Texas:

§ 24.003. OPERATION OF AIRCRAFT WITHOUT AIRMAN
CERTIFICATE; OFFENSE. (a) A person commits an offense if the
person:
(1) navigates an aircraft in this state without
an airman certificate; or
(2) serves as an airman in connection with an
aircraft flown or operated in this state without an airman
certificate.
(b) An offense under Subsection (a) is a misdemeanor
punishable by:
(1) a fine of not less than $100 and not more
than $500;
(2) confinement in county jail for not less
than 30 days and not more than six months; or
(3) both the fine and the confinement.
(c) It is a defense to prosecution under this section
that the person could be prosecuted under the laws or
regulations of the United States for the alleged violation.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.


§ 24.004. INSPECTION OF AIRMAN CERTIFICATE. A person
holding an airman certificate shall keep the certificate in the
person's possession when the person is operating an aircraft
within this state or serving in connection with an aircraft
flown or operated in this state. The person shall present the
certificate for inspection on the demand of:
(1) a passenger;
(2) a peace officer of this state; or
(3) an official, manager, or person in
charge of an airport or landing field in this state on which
the person lands an aircraft or performs a service.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.


(so keep that certificate in your pocket unless you want
to see the inside of a county jail in Texas for "not less
than 30 days"!)

 

[FN FAL]

FN_FAL can you please chill out and stick to the subject instead of posting all that nonsense. I cooperated with the coppers and that is not the subject of this thread. Please start your own thread if you wish to keep argueing your mute point. Thank you.

I notice you and skylawyer have similar problems with spelling errors and post amazingly one right after the other. In fact, skylawyer gave you accolades on your posts, which I thought was quite nice of him. Maybe you are him and he is you and I am the egg man, I am the walrus...coo coo ka joo!

 

[LJDRVR]

FN FAL = Cut and paste barracks lawyer, and totally owned by SKYLAWYER.

What a total dork, Do you really think those community college peace officer courses you're taking constitute a legal education? Man, sometimes I enjoy your posts in a surreal sort of fanciful way, but now you're just fodder for the idiot cannon. (In other words, I'm not laughing with you. )

You youngsters who think you can pull some sort of "I know what my rights are" act with the police may get your asses kicked in the process. (Literally)
You can chose to believe you know a thing or two about the constitution, but when you find yourself interacting with somebody who can deprive you of your liberty and beat you senseless in the process, here's some advice:

• Stand with a respectful posture

• Be unfailingly polite (Yes Sir, No Sir)

• Avoid rapid movement or hand gestures

• Cooperate earnestly until arrested, then STFU and exercise your right to remain silent, no matter how much you believe "cooperating" with your captors may result in your release. Get a lawyer.

 

[FL420]

SKYLAWYER, Metro752 does have a point about using paragraphs to make your post more readable. Unfortunately, his point was completely overshadowed by his extremely rude and obnoxious post.

I appreciated your input.

 

[Metro752]

oh im in a bad mood, and it felt good to use such foul language when directed at a lawyer. my apologies 420

 

[Hold West]

In the legal world, that IS a paragraph!

 

[SKYLAWYER]

SKYLAWYER, Metro752 does have a point about using paragraphs to make your post more readable. Unfortunately, his point was completely overshadowed by his extremely rude and obnoxious post.

I appreciated your input.

I am going to go back on my promise from above to apologize. You are correct and I hate reading posts like mine but I was typing everything from my blackberry and it looks so different because the screen is small. Now that I'm home it looks awfull on my PC. I'll correct it. Metro72 if it makes you feel better you can read my profile and see I went the regional route for a while. I am a fellow aviator at heart. There are a ton of crap lawyers and they give some of the better ones a bad reputation. I understand your frustration.

 

[Rick1128]

While the FAA may have been trained in dealing with violations, Local and federal LEO's do not. There have been too many times that the pilot has been perfectly legal and has been cited and the aircraft impounded the LEO's. An FAA Inspector has to have almost a year of training and a supervisor's approval before being authorized to file a violation. The amount of training a LEO gets? You got it! ZERO!

If you find yourself in this situation do the same thing you would do if talking with the FAA. Write down everything in a Memo for Record. LEO's do it and FAA Inspectors do it. Be right up front about it and do it in front of them. Names, ID numbers, ranks, department names, times, dates, what was said, etc. At the end put down your thoughts and feelings and so on. If they know you are doing it, they tend to tread more carefully. It shows you are a professional and are acing in a professional manner. While they might not like it, there is not much they can do about it.

 

[:-)]

You youngsters who think you can pull some sort of "I know what my rights are" act with the police may get your asses kicked in the process. (Literally)
You can chose to believe you know a thing or two about the constitution, but when you find yourself interacting with somebody who can deprive you of your liberty and beat you senseless in the process, here's some advice:

• Stand with a respectful posture

• Be unfailingly polite (Yes Sir, No Sir)

• Avoid rapid movement or hand gestures

• Cooperate earnestly until arrested, then STFU and exercise your right to remain silent, no matter how much you believe "cooperating" with your captors may result in your release. Get a lawyer.

Baa
Baa
Baa

Better to die on your feet, than live on your knees!

 

[iflyabeech]

I notice you and skylawyer have similar problems with spelling errors and post amazingly one right after the other. In fact, skylawyer gave you accolades on your posts, which I thought was quite nice of him. Maybe you are him and he is you and I am the egg man, I am the walrus...coo coo ka joo!

Dude, you really need to chill out. You talk a bunch of mumbo jumbo that noone else gets.

What are you--the spelling police? Are you gonna lock me (and skylawyer) up because I (we) misspelled a word or two (according to you)? Give me a break!

For the record, this is just some silly forum, not anything important. So if my finger hits the wrong key and a word gets misspelled, BIG FREAKIN' DEAL. Live with it! Find someone else's thread to hijack, 'cause I dont really care to hear your mumbojumbo and I don't think anyone else does either. And again, I could care less if I misspell something on here.

 

[Vector4fun]

I just started flying a Grumman AA-1B that a non-pilot friend of mine owns. I started taking care of this plane the first of this month. I had to update the registration and get it annualed and elt and transponder checked.

Back to the original post;

I'm wondering if there's a bit more to the story about a "non-pilot" owning this aircraft, and if that's why you got hassled to begin with. Is there someone at this airport unhappy that your friend owns the Grumman? Perhaps they tried to purchase it? That would certainly answer the question of how you got on a "watch list" of some sort. Somebody with issues dropped a dime on you.

 

[iflyabeech]

Back to the original post;

I'm wondering if there's a bit more to the story about a "non-pilot" owning this aircraft, and if that's why you got hassled to begin with. Is there someone at this airport unhappy that your friend owns the Grumman? Perhaps they tried to purchase it? That would certainly answer the question of how you got on a "watch list" of some sort. Somebody with issues dropped a dime on you.

After talking with my POI, I am pretty sure that that this did come down from the FAA.

 

[airspeed]

Very interesting. It does sound like the feds are cracking down with the new reg. thing. Cannot see how it would be a felony but who knows. Had I been in the situation I would have only given them my license as per the FARS thats all a leo can ask for. I know there are state statues which really dont make any sense to me to have them as its like having double laws for everything. How would someone possibly expect us to know the laws for every state, isnt that the reason why we have the FARS?? Its funny as I was viewing the oregon state aviation statues after reading your post and there is actually something in there about not photographing military bases from an airplane. Can't understand how this could hold any validity, is that not against our rights?

 

[FN FAL]

FN FAL = Cut and paste barracks lawyer, and totally owned by SKYLAWYER.

What a total dork, Do you really think those community college peace officer courses you're taking constitute a legal education? Man, sometimes I enjoy your posts in a surreal sort of fanciful way, but now you're just fodder for the idiot cannon. (In other words, I'm not laughing with you. )

You youngsters who think you can pull some sort of "I know what my rights are" act with the police may get your asses kicked in the process. (Literally)
You can chose to believe you know a thing or two about the constitution, but when you find yourself interacting with somebody who can deprive you of your liberty and beat you senseless in the process, here's some advice:

• Stand with a respectful posture

• Be unfailingly polite (Yes Sir, No Sir)

• Avoid rapid movement or hand gestures

• Cooperate earnestly until arrested, then STFU and exercise your right to remain silent, no matter how much you believe "cooperating" with your captors may result in your release. Get a lawyer.

You're an idiot. Skylawyer is a fake and you drank the coolaide.