Ramped by 2 airport cops and 2 sheriffs. . .Accused me of a Felony!!!! No Kidding

[iflyabeech]

Then he'd tase you, you'd be arrested for impeding an officer/interfering with justice/disrupting investigative karma (or whatever catch all law they have on the books) and you'd be seeing the judge on Monday morning. In addition, don't eat the jailhouse chili and remember, you don't have to say boo...just name, rank and serial number.

You are right on this one.

 

[FN FAL]

A little nitpicky don't you think?

I'm not a lawyer, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night and they had "Legend of Billy Jack" on Movie Classics Channel. I'm sporting double wood.

 

[:-)]

I don't have the time, nor inclination (nor the knowhow for that matter) to do a legal search, but I seem to remember an article in the AOPA pilot years ago that stated that a LEO had the right to look at your certificate; but that you should hold it because it had been ruled that actually handing it to them constituted "surrender". Of course if you "surrender" your certificate, you don't have the right to get it back.

I don't care what FN thinks, If I ever had any idea that a LEO isn't working in my best interest, I will NOT hand over my certificate. If you think about it, what will they do? For that matter, what would have happened in the ramp check in question? Does the Sheriff have legal authority to arrest a pilot for not possesing a certificate? What if you honestly forgot it? For instance, my certificate stays in my flight case (in the crew room), but I occasionally fly light stuff; it is conceivable that I might fly without my piece of paper. Is that criminal?

In all practicality, we live in a police state, so we should all just go ahead and mail back the certificates today.

 

[leardawg]

Some years ago I had the experience of "retrieving" an airplane that had been spirited away to an airport in a different state (as part of a lawsuit involving a Flight School owner who left town in the middle of the night, leaving many students sucking wind). I flew the airplane back home with no incident. The next day, I'm sitting in the FBO when a Sherrif's car comes speeding up the road, onto the ramp, and around a corner into a concealed spot. A deputy and a plain-clothes detective jump out, all breathless, (there was a shotgun propped up in the seat between them!), and announce "there's possibly a stolen airplane on it's way in, a N@#$%^." I tell them "you mean that one in the Hangar?" The detective looks at the airplane, looks at his piece of paper, and says "Yeah! What the hell is going on here?! Do you know anything about this?" I told them I was the one who flew the airplane here (the previous day). They were ready to haul me in until I explained the situation. They decided it was a "civil matter" as far as they were concerned, and for the courts to decide. I never found out where their tip came from, although I suspect the "other side" in the lawsuit had something to do with it.

 

[iflyabeech]

I don't have the time, nor inclination (nor the knowhow for that matter) to do a legal search, but I seem to remember an article in the AOPA pilot years ago that stated that a LEO had the right to look at your certificate; but that you should hold it because it had been ruled that actually handing it to them constituted "surrender". Of course if you "surrender" your certificate, you don't have the right to get it back.

I don't care what FN thinks, If I ever had any idea that a LEO isn't working in my best interest, I will NOT hand over my certificate. If you think about it, what will they do? For that matter, what would have happened in the ramp check in question? Does the Sheriff have legal authority to arrest a pilot for not possesing a certificate? What if you honestly forgot it? For instance, my certificate stays in my flight case (in the crew room), but I occasionally fly light stuff; it is conceivable that I might fly without my piece of paper. Is that criminal?

In all practicality, we live in a police state, so we should all just go ahead and mail back the certificates today.

My POI said that it was definitely a good thing that I cooperated with them. They do have the authority to inspect your certificates and allowing them to inspect it does not constitute surrender. Period. Arresting someone for an FAA offense is a different ball of worms!

 

[FN FAL]

I don't care what FN thinks, If I ever had any idea that a LEO isn't working in my best interest, I will NOT hand over my certificate. If you think about it, what will they do?

Ever heard of the term "testilying"?

In theory, here's what could happen to you. Some super trooper decides he's going to mess with you over at the county aerodrome, mainly because he's got a beef with airplane noise and his house is located by the airport, right under the traffic pattern.

You land and as you're putting your bird away, he parks you in with his crown vicky and the squad dash cam just happens to be pointing away from where you are in the hangar.

He gets out of the car and asks for your certificates and you do the spoiled kid song and dance.

He decides he's not going to put up with it, so he says loud enough for the wireless microphone (it goes to the police dash cam), "push on me or touch me one more time and I'll TASE you!"

You get freaked and say something like, "WTF? I got rights dude!"

He says, "I told you not to push on me again!" He pulls out his trusty TASER and zaps you a couple of times, you drop your certificates on the ground and he arrests you for assaulting an officer.

When the dash cam tape is played in court, the police dash cam audio has the "conversation", a lot of scuffling and clicking sounds and your screaming on it. However, the video only shows the hanger alley.

http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_112220353.html

Of course, that kind of thing never happens.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

It just bothers me when they goose step back to the Police Car.

CE



(Who are you verking for....)

Well I-

LIAR!!!

 

[FN FAL]

It just bothers me when they goose step back to the Police Car.

CE



(Who are you verking for....)

Well I-

LIAR!!!

"Sign zee papers old man!"

"I cannot sign zee papers!"

"Why not old man?"

"Because you have broken all my fingers."

 

[SKYLAWYER]

My POI said that it was definitely a good thing that I cooperated with them. They do have the authority to inspect your certificates and allowing them to inspect it does not constitute surrender. Period. Arresting someone for an FAA offense is a different ball of worms!

He is absolutely correct. The FAA have been trained on the inspection/surrender topic. Since they have no arresting capability holding your certificate for inspection may be viewed as a little rude, but they do understand how some pilots view handing over thier certificates for inspection. The AOPA article mentioned above was very misleading by saying that you do not have to turn over your certificates to a LEO. The FAA may be upset, but a LEO will have you in cuffs for interfering with an investigation. You may get off but the headache and cost (400hr for someone descent) will really make you regret your actions. Think about this, the next time you are pulled over and the officer requests to SEE you drivers licence and registration, hold it up for him instead of handing it over to him. After the swelling goes down you can PM me and I'll give you the number to the guys in my firm with all the pull.
Iflyabeech is the perfect client. He is absolutely in the right so he participated and complied perfectly with the investigation. Had they done something wrong he would have been the angel in the courtroom and would probably walk away with some airframe paint money for his trouble. Had he been a a-hole about it, even though he was right a jury would have precluded his actions as suspicious and agreed with the cops for detaining him for further investigation. ESPECIALLY IN THIS WORLD OF POST SEPT 11 PARANOIA.

 

[FN FAL]

He is absolutely correct. The FAA have been trained on the inspection/surrender topic....ESPECIALLY IN THIS WORLD OF POST SEPT 11 PARANOIA.

I agree, from what the original poster said, it sounds like the police were just doing their job. According to the original poster's post, they didn't search his airplane and they allowed him to push it into a hanger while they sorted things out. Sounds like they were there to address the issue of the registration. If they would have been being jerks, they could have probably went a lot further than they did.

Also, a question to the original poster...did they ask to see your state aircraft registration?