President of ALPA tells regionals to bend over

[livin'thesim]

You won't get the bikini model, no matter what you do, that's an outcome I can easily predict, unless of course you pay her. If you don't play tough guy, then you play weak guy. I will play tough guy and hold out for more, but you don't have to, because you "planned well", sht, you are loaded! Jesus Christ, you may be the World's Most Interesting Man. It is an entitlement mentality. I am entitled to the same pay and QOL work rules that other airline pilots get for similar work. I planned well too. I am not taking less for the service that I provide, and since I have a vote in the matter, I will use it to affect a desirable outcome for my personal interests and the interests of my colleagues. I appreciate your market analysis and pretentious pontifications, but they fall flat for me. I am the one doing the work. You are an outsider, therefore, you know not what you speak of. Who cares if you did it ten years ago and walked ten miles in the snow to school. You're not doing it now. You are irrelevant.

Corrections:

You are entitled to nothing. You get what you negotiate. You can attempt to effect a desirable outcome, but there is no way to predict that in advance. In fact, if you thought it was that likely, you would not be on FI in sackcloth and ashes. As far as my irrelevancy, it sounds like your position has been deemed somewhat irrelevant too, by ALPA leadership.


As for me:
I don't always leave comments on flightinfo, but when I do, they tend to irritate you.

 

[livin'thesim]

You know how much experience you need??

It's all in the negotiation.

 

[CiFIknow]

It's all in the negotiation.

I was making a joke about getting a degree at bum-f_ck online University in electronics. Problem is the guy hauling your garbage, delivering your gas, or pumping your septic is making much more than you make flying an airplane. Sad, but true. And me too. Who is the sucker...

 

[Mickey Mouse]

Corrections:

You are entitled to nothing. You get what you negotiate. You can attempt to effect a desirable outcome, but there is no way to predict that in advance. In fact, if you thought it was that likely, you would not be on FI in sackcloth and ashes. As far as my irrelevancy, it sounds like your position has been deemed somewhat irrelevant too, by ALPA leadership.


As for me:
I don't always leave comments on flightinfo, but when I do, they tend to irritate you.

I am entitled to that which I can obtain lawfully. Pilot groups most certainly affect the outcome of their final contract by the vote they cast on any TA. As far as being in "sackcloth and ashes", you may have used that archaic term out of context. That term describes an individual who is seeking forgiveness or mourning an event. It is an old Jewish term. I seek no forgiveness for my position, nor am I mourning anything. Since we are getting Biblical, let's invoke the God of Israel and the wisdom of his followers to strengthen our cause for just compensation:

Romans 4:4
Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Fact #1 Every plane out there requires a finite number of pilots to operate.

Fact #2 If the above planes are not operating, they are very expensive.

Fact #3 The airlines need to operate airplanes to make money, the little bags of snacks business is very competitive, and given the level of incompetence at the airline exec level, Quaker Oats will kick their azzes every time.

Fact #4 Pilots are the one group they cannot operate without.

FUPM

 

[PCL_128]

It's ironic that this guy never would have been elected president if it weren't for the support of so many regional MECs. Many of you who are complaining should be taking out your frustrations on your own status reps who voted for him.

 

[livin'thesim]

I am entitled to that which I can obtain lawfully. Pilot groups most certainly affect the outcome of their final contract by the vote they cast on any TA. As far as being in "sackcloth and ashes", you may have used that archaic term out of context. That term describes an individual who is seeking forgiveness or mourning an event. It is an old Jewish term. I seek no forgiveness for my position, nor am I mourning anything. Since we are getting Biblical, let's invoke the God of Israel and the wisdom of his followers to strengthen our cause for just compensation:

Romans 4:4
Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.

Go ahead and hold out for the pay you want. I would be the last one to try and talk you out of it. However, be prepared for the fact that you MIGHT price yourself out of the market. Maybe not. Never know, management groups might be bluffing.

As long as there is a cheaper alternative, expect the mainlines to seriously consider using another carrier.

Supply and demand, simple as that.

And you do seem fairly mournful.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Go ahead and hold out for the pay you want. I would be the last one to try and talk you out of it. However, be prepared for the fact that you MIGHT price yourself out of the market. Maybe not. Never know, management groups might be bluffing.

As long as there is a cheaper alternative, expect the mainlines to seriously consider using another carrier.

Supply and demand, simple as that.

And you do seem fairly mournful.

The "cheaper alternatives" are beginning to have a hard time finding new hires. Lakes and Silver are using captains as first officers, and even so it seems they are having to cancel flights and are pulling out of some markets. There's also the 5000.00 dollar bait that Republic and Eagle are being forced to offer to try and entice new hires...
Maybe age 65, 1500 hour minimums, the new rest rules, along with the long downhill slide of pay/benefits/and quality of life have changed the "supply and demand" side of that equation!:beer:

Simple as that!!:smash:

 

[Golden Falcon]

The only reason ALPO ever bothered to organise regional carriers was to dissuade them from scabbing when the majors strike...and to bring in a bit of extra cash...

 

[PCL_128]

The only reason ALPO ever bothered to organise regional carriers was to dissuade them from scabbing when the majors strike...and to bring in a bit of extra cash...

You're an idiot. The regional carriers cost ALPA far more money than they bring in in dues.

 

[Freebrd]

It's ironic that this guy never would have been elected president if it weren't for the support of so many regional MECs. Many of you who are complaining should be taking out your frustrations on your own status reps who voted for him.

Hey thats your managements deal for having so many DCI carriers! And some of us do but the same people keep voting for our MEC Chair, even when we replaced those who vote for the MEC Chair! And then you have the 90% who don't participate in anything ALPA nor vote.

But, you know all this right PCL? How'd that work out for you w/SWA?

 

[Freebrd]

You're an idiot. The regional carriers cost ALPA far more money than they bring in in dues.

This is true, but it doesn't help when Moak sends a letter out basically telling us to bend over and take pay cuts. Doesn't help the dues amount does it? Plus what power or influence do regionals have over ALPA? None, it's still controlled by the majors. But again, you know this PCL having been an ALPA official right?

 

[PCL_128]

Hey thats your managements deal for having so many DCI carriers! And some of us do but the same people keep voting for our MEC Chair, even when we replaced those who vote for the MEC Chair! And then you have the 90% who don't participate in anything ALPA nor vote.

The MEC Chairman doesn't have a vote for the ALPA president, so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Your status reps are the ones who vote. And if they voted for this guy, you should be blaming them. They had two candidates who were experienced and have always been friends of the regional pilots. But the status reps turned their backs on those candidates, and supported the current guy and an even bigger joke from FedEx. Some of us warned them. They wouldn't listen. Hopefully they've learned something.

But, you know all this right PCL? How'd that work out for you w/SWA?

What does SWA have to do with this?

 

[PCL_128]

This is true, but it doesn't help when Moak sends a letter out basically telling us to bend over and take pay cuts. Doesn't help the dues amount does it? Plus what power or influence do regionals have over ALPA? None, it's still controlled by the majors. But again, you know this PCL having been an ALPA official right?

Moak wouldn't be president if not for regional votes. That means you have a great deal of influence and power. You just use it poorly.

 

[livin'thesim]

The "cheaper alternatives" are beginning to have a hard time finding new hires. Lakes and Silver are using captains as first officers, and even so it seems they are having to cancel flights and are pulling out of some markets. There's also the 5000.00 dollar bait that Republic and Eagle are being forced to offer to try and entice new hires...
Maybe age 65, 1500 hour minimums, the new rest rules, along with the long downhill slide of pay/benefits/and quality of life have changed the "supply and demand" side of that equation!:beer:

Simple as that!!:smash:

Absolutely, this is good outcome. I have predicted that the "shortage" will be most strongly felt at the lowest-quality carriers. And in 135.

Mainline carriers will probably never have a true "shortage" of applicants, although they may have to be a bit more flexible on their competitive mins.

I could easily see a couple really sh--ty regionals close up shop, and I would not be surprised if more than a few 135 carriers end up similarly.

 

[Golden Falcon]

You're an idiot. The regional carriers cost ALPA far more money than they bring in in dues.

30 years ago when I was at the regionals (commuters)..ALPO had no use for anybody....very few "legacy commuters" were unionised ..the Continental strike brought ALPO to the masses....(were you even born then??)...

 

[PCL_128]

Sorry, but I don't waste time arguing with children who use the term ALPO, thinking they're clever.

 

[livin'thesim]

Sorry, but I don't waste time arguing with children who use the term ALPO, thinking they're clever.

How about children who PFT their way into the game, then suddenly wish they were a real pilot, and then suddenly decide they are a bigtime union hero, but are too fat to find a suit in the same color as all the other alpA reps in the group pic?

Just askin'.

Had the 1500 hour rule been implemented just a few years earlier, guys like that would have been the Chief Pilot of one of those fantasy Microsoft Flightsim airlines, rather than be cluttering up the flight decks of real airlines with their corpulent, bloviating selves.

 

[flyboyike]

How about children who PFT their way into the game, then suddenly wish they were a real pilot, and then suddenly decide they are a bigtime union hero, but are too fat to find a suit in the same color as all the other alpA reps in the group pic?

Just askin'.

Had the 1500 hour rule been implemented just a few years earlier, guys like that would have been the Chief Pilot of one of those fantasy Microsoft Flightsim airlines, rather than be cluttering up the flight decks of real airlines with their corpulent, bloviating selves.

Damn...ouch.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

bloviating selves.

You just described the Genny....

bloviate
To bloviate is to talk, but not just to chat. To bloviate means to go on and on and on and on, usually in a pompous way.

 

[PCL_128]

Damn...ouch.

Nah, attempts at insults don't hurt when they're coming from immature little twerps.

 

[Golden Falcon]

Sorry, but I don't waste time arguing with children who use the term ALPO, thinking they're clever.

ALPO was coined many decades ago...children...I might be your dad....better be careful....after you struck and put your company out of business..then tell me about being Mr Alpa...you have no clue

 

[CFIT]

You're an idiot. The regional carriers cost ALPA far more money than they bring in in dues.

BS, if that is really the case then they must really be drinking the country club dry.

As an example, if SkyWest was alpa it would be dumping around 4 mil a year into Moak's wallet.

I would imagine alpas budget is around 100 mil?

 

[Nevets]

BS, if that is really the case then they must really be drinking the country club dry.

As an example, if SkyWest was alpa it would be dumping around 4 mil a year into Moak's wallet.

I would imagine alpas budget is around 100 mil?

The bigger regionals like Eagle and XJT may actually be in the positive. But the smaller ones outnumber the bigger ones.

 

[CFIT]

The bigger regionals like Eagle and XJT may actually be in the positive. But the smaller ones outnumber the bigger ones.

Doesn't really make sense but I'm sure it's what has been said for years, it's just been said so many times it's believed without scrutiny.

 

[PCL_128]

The numbers aren't a secret. You can see them for yourself. Just call up Herndon and schedule an appointment.

 

[CFIT]

The numbers aren't a secret. You can see them for yourself. Just call up Herndon and schedule an appointment.

Maybe you can just enlighten us with some pre-canned alpa quote?

Otherwise the math just doesn't add up, just the same old saying that the regional's don't pull their weight.

However, it may be the reason that alpa has signed off on 2 pathetic, back pedaling contracts.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

The numbers aren't a secret. You can see them for yourself. Just call up Herndon and schedule an appointment.

They're probably a little busy celebrating the signing of another bar lowering contract by an ALPA regional that should never have allowed to have been put to a vote...

 

[PCL_128]

Maybe you can just enlighten us with some pre-canned alpa quote?

Otherwise the math just doesn't add up, just the same old saying that the regional's don't pull their weight.

However, it may be the reason that alpa has signed off on 2 pathetic, back pedaling contracts.

Yes, the math certainly adds up. You have to look at it over a period of several years. During a slow year between contracts, they pull their weight. But when it comes time for contract negotiations, it's not even close, which takes them negative. The smaller regionals go deeply negative, the bigger ones not so bad, but none of them can really pull their own weight. ASA/XJT may eventually be able to, but even the first "super-regional" Endeavor is struggling to pay down its loan balance.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

It's actually genius. Drive the pay and QOL into the toilet, no one can afford to come into the industry, supply of pilots becomes thin, price for existing pilots goes up.....