Polar Air Cargo, 30 days out from possible strike.

[Neednewcareer]

Bman

Hope that everything for you at home goes ok. Sorry about the house and the bike.

Everything that Polar is going through is for the good of the whole pilot group if there is a merger. We need to stop fighting with each other and forget the past. I guess the Atlas MEC put out a very good VARS message on the 28th. Fly safe

 

[400drvr]

bman

There are idiots every where you go. Most of the adults at Polar know what a SCAB is. I apologize that you had a run in with someone that does not know the difference. Some of us at Polar are aware of the score.

 

[heilhaavir]

Come on guys, we can disagre but everyone's entitled to an opinion, Bman included. For the ones who use the word "scab" a bit too losely, watch what you say...

B747-300, where does the 12% offer come from? That's a new one for me, but please, when you make a statement, reference it, don't just repeat what Joe Blow told you cause he heard it from someon else.
Also, why would you care if we lose our jobs or not? You should be happy dude, so relax, fly safe, and let us decide if we want to shut it down or not. If there is a REAL offer, we might consider it and decide if we accept it or not. As we speak there is NO offer on the table, not 10.5%, not 12%, NADA!
I'll repeat myself since you don't seem to get it. If PO is not profitable, why even make an offer to the group? How can a smart guy like you expect anybody to keep on subsidizing a losing operation? Hell, shut it down, lock us out, absolutely not impressed.

 

[Crzipilot]

Listen guys


I hate seeing what happened to you guys, but I'm sorry I just don't understand all of this. I think its stupid. Is this what being at a 121 carrier nowdays is all about? Atlas vs AACS, AACS vs GSS, Polar vs Atlas, Mgmt vs EVERYONE!

Welcome to non-sked/scum bag / freight dogging it. Looks like management is pulling plays out of the old book.

 

[B747-300]

B747-300, where does the 12% offer come from? That's a new one for me, but please, when you make a statement, reference it, don't just repeat what Joe Blow told you cause he heard it from someon else.
Also, why would you care if we lose our jobs or not? You should be happy dude, so relax, fly safe, and let us decide if we want to shut it down or not. If there is a REAL offer, we might consider it and decide if we accept it or not. As we speak there is NO offer on the table, not 10.5%, not 12%, NADA!
I'll repeat myself since you don't seem to get it. If PO is not profitable, why even make an offer to the group? How can a smart guy like you expect anybody to keep on subsidizing a losing operation? Hell, shut it down, lock us out, absolutely not impressed.

There is currently no offer on the table because your MEC rejected the 12% offer without consulting the membership. The offer was withdrawn when the cooling-off period began. The source for my information is your own MEC. Didn't you participate in the conference call??

Polar does scheduled flying, which means that Polar (not the customer, as is the case with ACMI) pays for the fuel it uses. Maybe the offer was made (essentially an 18 month contract extension plus the 12% raise) with the hope that Polar would be able to survive until fuel prices drop. How can a smart guy like you not understand what economic forces dictate airline profitability?

I really don't care if Polar survives or not. Actually, I think it would be better for the Atlas crews if Polar went away. No more whipsaw and no more knife in the back from your MEC during end game contract negotiations.

Finally, you are not in control of your future at this point. Your fate will be determined by Atlas management or the idiots on your MEC. You're just along for the ride now. And your final paycheck is only a couple of weeks away, me thinks.

 

[heilhaavir]

300, I really don't think you've read my posts, so I'll repeat one LAST time: they can shut it down whenever they want, doesn't move me a bit

Cheerios

 

[furloughfodder]

B747-300,

If flying scheduled cargo around the world is so unprofitable, why are companies like Korean, Air China, China Air, NCA, JAL, NWA, UPS, FEDEx, etc. making so much freakin money doing it? These companies are so profitable and so busy right now that they need to farm out (read ACMI) a good percentage of their flying to bottom feeders like Southern, Tradewinds, Focus, and the king of the bottom feeders Atlas.

If (and that's a big "if") Polar really is unprofitable, it really says a lot about the sorry management at Atlas Air that they are unable to make money in the Asian market even with high fuel costs. I know it probably offends you to hear someone bad mouth management, it is quite obvious you are either management yourself, or one of those gung-ho Cato Zombies that believes every word out of Purchase as if it was gold.

 

[400drvr]

China, China Air, NCA, JAL, NWA, UPS, FEDEx, etc. making so much freakin money doing it? These companies are so profitable and so busy right now that they need to farm out (read ACMI) a good percentage of their flying to bottom feeders like Southern, Tradewinds, Focus, and the king of the bottom feeders Atlas.

If (and that's a big "if") Polar really is unprofitable, it really says a lot about the sorry management at Atlas Air that they are unable to make money in the Asian market even with high fuel costs. I know it probably offends you to hear someone bad mouth management, it is quite obvious you are either management yourself, or one of those gung-ho Cato Zombies that believes every word out of Purchase as if it was gold.


Can't agree with you more on this one furloughfodder!

 

[Jolly]

Why do you keep repeating 12% raise? That was never the offer and the POLAR MEC does NOT say it was. You also ignore the FACT Atlas pay rates are 30-40% HIGHER than Polar's in addition to the Atlas 401k match being 5% vs. 2% at Polar. (Check out ailinepilotcentral.com )

As far as ACMI vs. scheduled flying goes nothing in the Polar pilot's contract precludes doing ACMI flying or requires the company to CONTINUE scheduled service. Management CHOOSES what type of flying Polar does just like it CHOOSES what Atlas flies.

What we are curently witnessing is a classic case of whipsawing where you are obligingly supporting management against fellow pilots. Do not think for a moment that management doesn't have people monitoring these boards as well as the ALPA boards.

There is currently no offer on the table because your MEC rejected the 12% offer without consulting the membership. The offer was withdrawn when the cooling-off period began. The source for my information is your own MEC. Didn't you participate in the conference call??

Polar does scheduled flying, which means that Polar (not the customer, as is the case with ACMI) pays for the fuel it uses. Maybe the offer was made (essentially an 18 month contract extension plus the 12% raise) with the hope that Polar would be able to survive until fuel prices drop. How can a smart guy like you not understand what economic forces dictate airline profitability?

I really don't care if Polar survives or not. Actually, I think it would be better for the Atlas crews if Polar went away. No more whipsaw and no more knife in the back from your MEC during end game contract negotiations.

Finally, you are not in control of your future at this point. Your fate will be determined by Atlas management or the idiots on your MEC. You're just along for the ride now. And your final paycheck is only a couple of weeks away, me thinks.

 

[Whale Rider]

Reality CHECK!

Guys, Polar is not going to go under, shut down, or loose all of its flying. All of this would have happened a long time ago if any of it were true. What kind of an idiot would continue to run a business that makes no money? What kind of an idiot would invest in a company like that? Companies only run on sound buisness cases. All of this is just propaganda and none of it is true. If any if it were true then why are we just now hearing about it during contract negotiations?

As Clint Eastwood once said: "Don't piss on my back and tell me its raining!"

So just hold steady, stay the course and stand together!

 

[heilhaavir]

I totally agree Whale. Jolly, great if management reads this, i hope they realize we really don't care what they do. There is no reason to negotiate anything as long as the Cato42 are out of a job. Screw E & C, screw the 10.5 proposal (or any other) if there is one, and E, I really hope you DO what you SAY. BTW are you guys really room mates?

 

[B747-300]

Wow! Full denial. I guess the Polar MEC has done a good job getting a few of you guys to ignore the facts and goose-step towards your destiny.

I had a good laugh when I looked at the list of airlines that make "so much freakin money" flying cargo. Please, drop the crack pipe and step away from the airline comparisons. UPS and FedEx's core business isn't flying cargo "by the pound" over the ocean. They are wildly profitable, but they're not in the same business as Polar. NWA is close to bankruptcy. NCA and JAL might have full planes, but that doesn't mean they're making money. These airlines might all farm out work to ACMI carriers because the ACMI outfits can carry cargo for lower cost than they can themselves. Oh, and by the way, Southern, Tradewinds and Focus are all expanding rapidly because they have lower rates than Atlas/Polar.

"What kind of an idiot would continue to run a business that makes no money?"

The kind of idiot that just wants to keep the company alive to see better days, when fuel prices drop and rates rise.

"What kind of an idiot would invest in a company like that?"

The kind of idiot that already has a huge investment (in assets and cash) already in place there that doesn't want to liquidate in the current market.

Remember, Polar rejected the Atlas contract at the start of negotiations. You could have had the same pay as Atlas if you would have accepted the rest of the contract. But no, you're now looking for a 30-40% raise plus improvements to other parts of your contract. Seems unrealistic given the state of the company and industry. How did your MEC ever convince you guys that this was reasonable at a time when your parent company just emerged from bankruptcy and fuel prices are at a record high and climbing? Was there a wash tub full of Kool-Aid in the room? Did some of you boys sneak a few extra servings?

There is one post I agree with above. Management is weak at the parent company, but the union won't change that. Their jobs are safe. YOUR JOBS ARE NOT SECURE. You should have taken the 12% (or 10.5% or whatever you think it was) and come back to the table in a year or so when conditions might be better.

 

[Whale Rider]

hehehehe..............

 

[E170Guppykiller]

How are you guys gonna feel when UPS Captains get a 26% raise shortly? Are you still gonna wish they didn't buy Polar?

 

[treetopflyer]

How are you guys gonna feel when UPS Captains get a 26% raise shortly? Are you still gonna with they didn't buy Polar?

stop it thilly, the big kidth at talking right now, and it doesn't concern anyone with SJS