Polar Air Cargo, 30 days out from possible strike.

[KeroseneSnorter]

Are the Atlas/Polar MEC`s talking to each other? Was the "interim" offer from managment proposed to or voted on by the membership or was there a standing order to reject it if it did not meet certain and all criteria? Firing 50 type rated (50 x $$$$$$$) pilots seems extreme to me, very sad!

Press release says that the MEC was going to agree to release the last proposal to the membership for a vote (10.5 % increase in pay, which is still roughly 20% less than the Atlas current contract). Their only stipulation was that there was a clause to prevent any aircraft being transferred to Atlas prior to the merger and that they would not recommend one way or another as how the pilots should vote.

The company would not agree to these items and they fired the pilots the next day.

Seems odd for the company to do that, it really serves no purpose except to throw gas on the situation and throw away pilots that they spent large sums of money on type rating. The guys fired have no vote on the T/A anyhow, and all they have done is made enemies of all their newhires.

If it is a scare tactic to maybe try to get the remaining newhires to cross the picket line in the case of a strike, that is counterproductive also, probably 90% of the newbies are guys that got furloughed or screwed out of retirements at their previous airlines and have absolutly no love for draconian managment tactics anyhow, not to mention mass firings prior to any type of job action.

Seems to me to be a case of managment blowing off their nad sack just to spite the girl that wouldn't dance with them at the club!

 

[GogglesPisano]

Man this sucks. Classic whipsaw. If management is capable of treating their pilots like this ....

 

[treetopflyer]

Man this sucks. Classic whipsaw. If management is capable of treating their pilots like this ....

whats that supposed to mean?

besides, you senior guys at INDY were real quick to vote for pay cuts on the RJ to finance your new bigger paychecks on the BUS. you should be used to the whipsaw.

 

[GogglesPisano]

whats that supposed to mean?

besides, you senior guys at INDY were real quick to vote for pay cuts on the RJ to finance your new bigger paychecks on the BUS. you should be used to the whipsaw.

It means that the management at Polar is setting a new low by pre-emptively firing probationary pilots before there is even a strike. As far as Indy goes, what exactly does it have to do with the price of tea in China?

Are you defending Polar management?

PS: I'm not senior and will probably be on the street soon.

 

[HAL]

Is it true that the fired Polar people are being offered jobs at Atlas?

What is the latest?

I have a friend who was furloughed from Hawaiian, went to ATA, was furloughed, went to Polar, finished IOE last month, and now is apparently fired.

HAL

 

[Neednewcareer]

Yes, they are offerring jobs at Atlas. They are trying to break down Polar to acept a crappy contract. Management is playing with peoples lives. There pockets get fat and pilots get fired. There is no reason to take aircraft away from Polar. The planes are full of freight. If they are not making money then it is a management problem not a pilot problem.

 

[Reebo]

Yes, they are offerring jobs at Atlas.

I wonder if any Polar pilots are actually considering it.

 

[Craven Morhead]

Yes, they are offerring jobs at Atlas. They are trying to break down Polar to acept a crappy contract. Management is playing with peoples lives. There pockets get fat and pilots get fired. There is no reason to take aircraft away from Polar. The planes are full of freight. If they are not making money then it is a management problem not a pilot problem.

Get your facts straight. The freight is only going eastbound. Also, if it wasnt for the military routes, Polar would be paying to position an empty 747 to Hkg.

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

Atlas Aircraft

Its amazing how the critics here have failed to point to out the contract fact that No Polar pilot can be furloughed as long as there is an Atlas pilot flying Polar planes on Polar routes.

Stay United Polar!!!!!

Whale,
You are correct in your statement, but, the planes coming back to Atlas (496MC and 355MC) are Atlas aircraft (not Polar) and the company just brought them back to the Atlas side from dry lease to Polar. They have already terminated a bunch of -400 guys and now classic guys are next, I'm not gloating so don't get bent out of shape, I'm just clarifying some of your facts about certain Polar aircraft!

We went through these same tactics 3 years ago, and you know what materialized. Good luck to all Polar folks.

 

[heilhaavir]

Thks B747, we'll get through it, and if we have to walk so be it. JC is not destroying anybody's morale, on the contrary he is building aditional hate with the terminations. And unfortunately he played with 50+ lives. We will fight for them to come back.

United we are indeed wether some like it or not.

Cheers!

(BTW Reebo, to answer your question, there is NO offer on the table, just propaganda and misinformation, don't believe a word from JC)

 

[rudderdog]

....he played with 50+ lives.

Not to mention those of us who had their class cancelled with 5 days notice. Some had even quit jobs already for this class. Total disrespect.

 

[Reebo]

(BTW Reebo, to answer your question, there is NO offer on the table, just propaganda and misinformation, don't believe a word from JC)

thanks for the info, good luck and stay strong. i'll be glad to join you guys on the picket line if it comes down to it!

 

[Craven Morhead]

Atlas folks-
Help out the Polar guys. You are next.....

No, the Atlas guys were first!!! This selective memory sh%t is funny. Polar screwed the Atlas guys during thier final hour of negotiations and now they want their support and feel something is owed to them.......

The fact is that with fuel costs so high, Polar cannot make a profit, however there is loads of acmi business out there that is being turned down (in acmi, the customer pays for the fuel). Polar will die on the vine and the planes that were Atlas's in the first place, will go back to Atlas and on to new acmi contracts.

There are alot of good guys at Polar, unfortunately, they are shadowed by these militant a-holes that want to shut both airlines because they feel they are owed something. Get a grip!!!

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

No, the Atlas guys were first!!! This selective memory sh%t is funny. Polar screwed the Atlas guys during thier final hour of negotiations and now they want their support and feel something is owed to them.......

Your MEC disagrees with you, they know you are next.

 

[heilhaavir]

Craven, if PO's not profitable then shut it down, it's as easy as that. Why keep screaming wolf, show us that you can do it once and for all. I'm not a militant and don't think I ever did something to you or any of your buds, but you're not going to scare me with threats of shutting the place down. E & C spend millions on OT but can't seem to manage a scheduling dept and even less a travel dept that is costing even more but that's the pilots' fault? Dude, they (and you) have to go back to school.

And hey, relax, ACMI's doing great, life is good, so show us a nice big smile

BTW I'm not asking for your help

 

[mrvmo]

Craven, As we all know here, Atlas Holdings is working you guys aginst Polar now, as the have been all along. And guess what...............your falling foir it hook-line-and sinker. Why don't you give up your grudge and help your PROFESSION? It is a different time now than it was back then.........more at stake. Let it go man!

 

[B747-300]

We hear all the "support your profession" talk now that Polar is at the table, but nobody will ever forget what was done to Atlas when we were in the same spot. Both groups could have been at the table together at the same time if Polar hadn't accepted the contract extension/pay raise in the first place. And Atlas ended up with one of the worst QOL contracts in the industry because Polar said they would fly the struck work.

Don't try to claim that things are any different now with the "new" MEC at Polar. Your chairman doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed and everyone figures BF is still running the show anyway. The same people who sold us down the river the last go around are crying for our help now. What a joke.

 

[rtmcfi]

Don't try to claim that things are any different now with the "new" MEC at Polar. Your chairman doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed and everyone figures BF is still running the show anyway. The same people who sold us down the river the last go around are crying for our help now. What a joke

.

I really don't know anything about Polar selling you out last time. I am not doubting you. I think it sucks if that's what they did. But, for your own sake, you probably should band together to stop the divide and conquer. Best of luck to both groups.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

We hear all the "support your profession" talk now that Polar is at the table, but nobody will ever forget what was done to Atlas when we were in the same spot. Both groups could have been at the table together at the same time if Polar hadn't accepted the contract extension/pay raise in the first place. And Atlas ended up with one of the worst QOL contracts in the industry because Polar said they would fly the struck work.

Don't try to claim that things are any different now with the "new" MEC at Polar. Your chairman doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed and everyone figures BF is still running the show anyway. The same people who sold us down the river the last go around are crying for our help now. What a joke.

As I said before, in the past. nearly half of both senority lists were not here for the last time....different group. Most of the "newbies" came from every conceivable airline out there...and most were screwed royaly by their previous mgmt. teams.

The new crowd is tired of the managment whipsaw approach, they saw it repeatedly with the RJ issue and the transfer of flying from the mainlines. Atlas is not safe, your contract is up next year.

I know none of the "newbie" ex airline types would dare do any Atlas work when it comes your turn next year.

The only way for Polar and Atlas to survive with any kind of QOL or pay is to stand together. If they do not......well just look around at the ones that used to be the "Big Boys' of the airline industry.......they are all being flown by much lower paid RJ pilots that were in diapers when they got their job at the major.

Contract needs to get solved, and then PO and ATlas need to merge asap, then the whipsaw stops.

 

[heilhaavir]

Kerosene, unfortunately it is difficult to define struck work in ACMI. Let's assume that SAI (just for the sake of the example) has an ACMI contract with Asiana for instance. Asiana goes on strike, SAI continues flying the contract and actually now adds a few frequencies. Asiana pilots not very happy obviously but nothing they can do because the govt could care less. Let's say now that SAI goes on strike, Asiana still needs to move their freight, they advise SAI that their contract is cancelled because they cannot fulfill their contractual obligations and they sign a contract with let's say Tradewinds or Focus or both (again just as an example). The latter have not crossed the line, it is Asiana's freight they are carrying, not SAI's....

Another example is the military. If PO goes on strike the military will turn to someone else for the lift and whoever does fly it is not crossing the line, it's not PO freight. Now if someone were to fly PO flt #s on PO scheduled runs, then yes, that is PO freight.