Polar Air Cargo, 30 days out from possible strike.

[furloughfodder]

Ignore bman. He is an example of someone who simple repeats what they hear, like a parrot. He has no true airline experience. It is people like this that will cave in so fast when the Atlas contract comes due in a few short months. People that don't know how hard we have fought to get where we are in this industry are the first ones to give it all up.

I would almost rather read 410dude's posts than bman's drivel, because at least I know 410dude is not for real.

I know who you are also, and this type of stuff won't be forgotten.

 

[Jolly]

Actually it is only 3 months.

Perhaps he would care to tell us how many ALPA contract negotiations he has lived through and actually been on any property for.

Shaking head in disbelief...........

Considering that you drank beer with many of the ones that got fired, and that you have a grand total of four months in at Atlas, you talk like you have been there 10 years! If I remember correctly what your past jobs were, when Atlas was negotiating their last contract you were a newhire F/O at a regional airline!

How is the Ducati? Hope it didn't get swamped by Katrina.

 

[Corporate Slug]

Actually it is only 3 months.

Perhaps he would care to tell us how many ALPA contract negotiations he has lived through and actually been on any property for.

Thats true, he won't hit 4 months till the 16th.

Unbelievable what some people will do and say. He took his newhire checkride somewhere around June 30th or so, maybe even the first of July. He still hasn't had time to receive his permanant certificate! Talking all this smack and he is carring around a temporary certificate with a brand new 400 rating! Probably hasn't been off of F/O IOE for more than a week or two if that.

 

[B747-300]

I just heard that the Polar MEC actually turned down the offer of an immediate 12% pay increase and no other changes to their "high QOL" CBA for 18 months. The MEC refused this offer before asking to be released from mediation and without consulting the membership.

I'm actually starting to feel sorry for the rank-and-file union members at Polar. It looks like they'll all lose their jobs because of the stupid things their union leaders (past and present) have done. But then again, they did elect the idiots.

 

[Corporate Slug]

I just heard that the Polar MEC actually turned down the offer of an immediate 12% pay increase and no other changes to their "high QOL" CBA for 18 months. The MEC refused this offer before asking to be released from mediation and without consulting the membership.

I'm actually starting to feel sorry for the rank-and-file union members at Polar. It looks like they'll all lose their jobs because of the stupid things their union leaders (past and present) have done. But then again, they did elect the idiots.

We already got the word on that one, MEC wanted mgmt. to add a clause that would prevent transfer of flying to Atlas(read no furloughs) until the merger, and in writing that they were going to merge the two carriers. Neither of which the mgmt. would agree to.

That would have put a kink in Cato's plans to whipsaw the Atlas boys next year by doing the same to them that is being done to Polar now. Appears that he wants to keep them seperate until he can beat your payscale down some next year to match Polars.

 

[On Your Six]

We already got the word on that one, MEC wanted mgmt. to add a clause that would prevent transfer of flying to Atlas(read no furloughs) until the merger, and in writing that they were going to merge the two carriers. Neither of which the mgmt. would agree to.

That would have put a kink in Cato's plans to whipsaw the Atlas boys next year by doing the same to them that is being done to Polar now. Appears that he wants to keep them seperate until he can beat your payscale down some next year to match Polars.

Sounds like a classic whipsaw to me... The Atlas guys shouldn't feel safe - they're next...

 

[Neednewcareer]

No respect for fellow Pilots

BMAN

Unbelievable, Not even four months on the job with maybe 50 hours in the aircraft and knows everything about the company. You could have easily been hired at Polar and put on the street. Good luck next year when Atlas fires all of its pilots not protected by the union. How is the quality of life over at Atlas, oh I forgot you don't have a life because they can work you pretty much the whole month. Guess you can grow your Gotee back and maybe can keep it for your next ID. Hopefully who ever hires you next year won't mind you sleeping during ground school. Thanks for no support!!!!!

 

[b747dogg]

no not at all, but I really believe that they have over played their hand on this one and the stance that was taken during Atlas's CBA nego. a few years ago has not been forgotten. Nor will it when you've got 7 & 8 year FO's at Atlas and they see commands being given to Polar people several years junior to them, some even off of the street. Many Polar crews have become just unbearable over the last couple of months. With some strutting around talking about how much they have made for this company and how they saved Atlas. About how much they believe they are ENTITLED to with this next CBA.

Well, I spent 5 years at Atlas and bman hit it right on the head! Maybe some of you shouldn't second guess him if you're not at Atlas or Polar. 4 months is much more then never being there and reading about it on flight info. Enjoy.

 

[Whale Rider]

To Polar/Atlas: Our time is now! Our MEC's are united and we should be united!
Stay the course and stand together!

 

[bman]

Listen guys

For the Record. I think it is 100% F-uped about what has been done to the newhire guys at Polar.

I have not attacked any individual personally, nor have I fired anyone, or been the cause of people being fired.

Everything you guys have said is certainly correct about me, but this is the kind of nasty rethoric that has been going on. I've seen Polar guys ignoring Atlas crews. I've heard Scab thrown around at people who don't deserve it. And on the Atlas side I've seen and heard much of the same. This is all a bunch of horse s--t. All in only four months!

There's not one of you guys who know me or have met me who I would have said one dispariging word about, not any of you! There's not one of you that if you needed a place to stay (as long as you don't mind gettin wet)or something from me I wouldn't give it to you! There are newhires on the Polar side that I have connections to from way back and I don't wanna see my friends screwed over.

I don't believe I have lied about anything or said anything untrue or grossly misrepresented what has been going on here.

furloughfodder ---You know who I am, fair enough, but what exactly have I done "that won't be forgotten"? I know you too and you know this isn't between you and me nor am I with them!

I hate seeing what happened to you guys, but I'm sorry I just don't understand all of this. I think its stupid. Is this what being at a 121 carrier nowdays is all about? Atlas vs AACS, AACS vs GSS, Polar vs Atlas, Mgmt vs EVERYONE!

PS
Reread my first post and it was not very tactful. For that I sincerely Apologize!

PPS
The Ducati IS now a watercraft as is the house! D. come on man r u thinkin I don't care give a s#@t bout u?

BMAN

Unbelievable, Not even four months on the job with maybe 50 hours in the aircraft and knows everything about the company. You could have easily been hired at Polar and put on the street. Good luck next year when Atlas fires all of its pilots not protected by the union. How is the quality of life over at Atlas, oh I forgot you don't have a life because they can work you pretty much the whole month. Guess you can grow your Gotee back and maybe can keep it for your next ID. Hopefully who ever hires you next year won't mind you sleeping during ground school. Thanks for no support!!!!!

 

[Neednewcareer]

Bman

Hope that everything for you at home goes ok. Sorry about the house and the bike.

Everything that Polar is going through is for the good of the whole pilot group if there is a merger. We need to stop fighting with each other and forget the past. I guess the Atlas MEC put out a very good VARS message on the 28th. Fly safe

 

[400drvr]

bman

There are idiots every where you go. Most of the adults at Polar know what a SCAB is. I apologize that you had a run in with someone that does not know the difference. Some of us at Polar are aware of the score.

 

[heilhaavir]

Come on guys, we can disagre but everyone's entitled to an opinion, Bman included. For the ones who use the word "scab" a bit too losely, watch what you say...

B747-300, where does the 12% offer come from? That's a new one for me, but please, when you make a statement, reference it, don't just repeat what Joe Blow told you cause he heard it from someon else.
Also, why would you care if we lose our jobs or not? You should be happy dude, so relax, fly safe, and let us decide if we want to shut it down or not. If there is a REAL offer, we might consider it and decide if we accept it or not. As we speak there is NO offer on the table, not 10.5%, not 12%, NADA!
I'll repeat myself since you don't seem to get it. If PO is not profitable, why even make an offer to the group? How can a smart guy like you expect anybody to keep on subsidizing a losing operation? Hell, shut it down, lock us out, absolutely not impressed.

 

[Crzipilot]

Listen guys


I hate seeing what happened to you guys, but I'm sorry I just don't understand all of this. I think its stupid. Is this what being at a 121 carrier nowdays is all about? Atlas vs AACS, AACS vs GSS, Polar vs Atlas, Mgmt vs EVERYONE!

Welcome to non-sked/scum bag / freight dogging it. Looks like management is pulling plays out of the old book.

 

[B747-300]

B747-300, where does the 12% offer come from? That's a new one for me, but please, when you make a statement, reference it, don't just repeat what Joe Blow told you cause he heard it from someon else.
Also, why would you care if we lose our jobs or not? You should be happy dude, so relax, fly safe, and let us decide if we want to shut it down or not. If there is a REAL offer, we might consider it and decide if we accept it or not. As we speak there is NO offer on the table, not 10.5%, not 12%, NADA!
I'll repeat myself since you don't seem to get it. If PO is not profitable, why even make an offer to the group? How can a smart guy like you expect anybody to keep on subsidizing a losing operation? Hell, shut it down, lock us out, absolutely not impressed.

There is currently no offer on the table because your MEC rejected the 12% offer without consulting the membership. The offer was withdrawn when the cooling-off period began. The source for my information is your own MEC. Didn't you participate in the conference call??

Polar does scheduled flying, which means that Polar (not the customer, as is the case with ACMI) pays for the fuel it uses. Maybe the offer was made (essentially an 18 month contract extension plus the 12% raise) with the hope that Polar would be able to survive until fuel prices drop. How can a smart guy like you not understand what economic forces dictate airline profitability?

I really don't care if Polar survives or not. Actually, I think it would be better for the Atlas crews if Polar went away. No more whipsaw and no more knife in the back from your MEC during end game contract negotiations.

Finally, you are not in control of your future at this point. Your fate will be determined by Atlas management or the idiots on your MEC. You're just along for the ride now. And your final paycheck is only a couple of weeks away, me thinks.

 

[heilhaavir]

300, I really don't think you've read my posts, so I'll repeat one LAST time: they can shut it down whenever they want, doesn't move me a bit

Cheerios

 

[furloughfodder]

B747-300,

If flying scheduled cargo around the world is so unprofitable, why are companies like Korean, Air China, China Air, NCA, JAL, NWA, UPS, FEDEx, etc. making so much freakin money doing it? These companies are so profitable and so busy right now that they need to farm out (read ACMI) a good percentage of their flying to bottom feeders like Southern, Tradewinds, Focus, and the king of the bottom feeders Atlas.

If (and that's a big "if") Polar really is unprofitable, it really says a lot about the sorry management at Atlas Air that they are unable to make money in the Asian market even with high fuel costs. I know it probably offends you to hear someone bad mouth management, it is quite obvious you are either management yourself, or one of those gung-ho Cato Zombies that believes every word out of Purchase as if it was gold.

 

[400drvr]

China, China Air, NCA, JAL, NWA, UPS, FEDEx, etc. making so much freakin money doing it? These companies are so profitable and so busy right now that they need to farm out (read ACMI) a good percentage of their flying to bottom feeders like Southern, Tradewinds, Focus, and the king of the bottom feeders Atlas.

If (and that's a big "if") Polar really is unprofitable, it really says a lot about the sorry management at Atlas Air that they are unable to make money in the Asian market even with high fuel costs. I know it probably offends you to hear someone bad mouth management, it is quite obvious you are either management yourself, or one of those gung-ho Cato Zombies that believes every word out of Purchase as if it was gold.


Can't agree with you more on this one furloughfodder!

 

[Jolly]

Why do you keep repeating 12% raise? That was never the offer and the POLAR MEC does NOT say it was. You also ignore the FACT Atlas pay rates are 30-40% HIGHER than Polar's in addition to the Atlas 401k match being 5% vs. 2% at Polar. (Check out ailinepilotcentral.com )

As far as ACMI vs. scheduled flying goes nothing in the Polar pilot's contract precludes doing ACMI flying or requires the company to CONTINUE scheduled service. Management CHOOSES what type of flying Polar does just like it CHOOSES what Atlas flies.

What we are curently witnessing is a classic case of whipsawing where you are obligingly supporting management against fellow pilots. Do not think for a moment that management doesn't have people monitoring these boards as well as the ALPA boards.

There is currently no offer on the table because your MEC rejected the 12% offer without consulting the membership. The offer was withdrawn when the cooling-off period began. The source for my information is your own MEC. Didn't you participate in the conference call??

Polar does scheduled flying, which means that Polar (not the customer, as is the case with ACMI) pays for the fuel it uses. Maybe the offer was made (essentially an 18 month contract extension plus the 12% raise) with the hope that Polar would be able to survive until fuel prices drop. How can a smart guy like you not understand what economic forces dictate airline profitability?

I really don't care if Polar survives or not. Actually, I think it would be better for the Atlas crews if Polar went away. No more whipsaw and no more knife in the back from your MEC during end game contract negotiations.

Finally, you are not in control of your future at this point. Your fate will be determined by Atlas management or the idiots on your MEC. You're just along for the ride now. And your final paycheck is only a couple of weeks away, me thinks.

 

[Whale Rider]

Reality CHECK!

Guys, Polar is not going to go under, shut down, or loose all of its flying. All of this would have happened a long time ago if any of it were true. What kind of an idiot would continue to run a business that makes no money? What kind of an idiot would invest in a company like that? Companies only run on sound buisness cases. All of this is just propaganda and none of it is true. If any if it were true then why are we just now hearing about it during contract negotiations?

As Clint Eastwood once said: "Don't piss on my back and tell me its raining!"

So just hold steady, stay the course and stand together!