Pinnacle, Mesaba, Colgan Reallignment

[sinkrate]

Quotas are a pretty ugly way to protect premerger groups and their "intent" is to ensure that attrition from one premerger group is filled by its respective premerger pilots. These quotas are no different. Without fleet growth, these quotas will always be in play for their entire 5 year duration and the premerger group to get the most upgrades will be the group with the most captain attrition.

PCL was well over their -200 quota but with the approximate 10 CAs leaving per month from the premerger PCL group we will be back at our quota in the next few months. Considering that nobody ever seems to leave Mesaba, I would anticipate that their premerger FO's won't be seeing a lot of upgrades. Maybe that will change once they become Pinnacle pilots.

Attrition for the former MSA CA's will be as great, if not greater than the attrition for the PCL group. Plus you forget how the top of the list was constructed. When a 900 CA leaves a MSA 200 CA will take his place.

One small surprise in the award was the very small number of PCL FO's that bid for the 900. It seems to me if you were a year or more from upgrade that would be the AC to be in. Note that one of the displaced PCL CA's went to 900 FO in MEM. As the 200 schedules get widgetized they are starting to suck badly.

 

[Flyer1015]

bri, the Mesaba quota is filled at the moment, but won't be one the Mesaba flowthroughs go to Delta starting next year. Any drop below 279 at Mesaba must be filled by a Mesaba pilot before a Pinnacle/Colgan pilot.

 

[bri5150]

bri, the Mesaba quota is filled at the moment, but won't be one the Mesaba flowthroughs go to Delta starting next year. Any drop below 279 at Mesaba must be filled by a Mesaba pilot before a Pinnacle/Colgan pilot.

I bet there will be more Pinnacle guys leaving between now and when Delta starts hiring than all of those that will flow. The last I heard, Delta won't even start hiring until 2013.

 

[Flyprdu]

I bet there will be more Pinnacle guys leaving between now and when Delta starts hiring than all of those that will flow. The last I heard, Delta won't even start hiring until 2013.

I agree, but it will be mostly FOs staring down a 7 year upgrade.

 

[Flyer1015]

And is it just me, or did anyone else note the Colgan Q400 Captains getting jet Captain positions? Colgan is already below their quota, and as more and more Q Captains move over to jet positions, they will always stay under their 193 quota. What this means is that Colgan gets an exclusive one-way moving deal to jet Captain positions, while their Qs are untouched by Pinnacle/Mesaba. How is that "fair and equitable?"

 

[WMUSIGPI]

I agree, but it will be mostly FOs staring down a 7 year upgrade.

I am willing to bet you won't get an ounce of sympathy from Mesaba 99 to 01 hires over that.... Especially those 01's that also got fisted in the SLI.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

And is it just me, or did anyone else note the Colgan Q400 Captains getting jet Captain positions? Colgan is already below their quota, and as more and more Q Captains move over to jet positions, they will always stay under their 193 quota. What this means is that Colgan gets an exclusive one-way moving deal to jet Captain positions, while their Qs are untouched by Pinnacle/Mesaba. How is that "fair and equitable?"

Nobody is disputing that 90% of Colgan hit the lottery with this merger. The bottom 10% pretty much got the best they could have reasonably expected, if not a little more.

 

[Flyprdu]

I am willing to bet you won't get an ounce of sympathy from Mesaba 99 to 01 hires over that.... Especially those 01's that also got fisted in the SLI.

And tell me how a 99 hire's life will be affected? Same equipment. Same base. Same pay. A fair bet that he'll hold a comparable schedule. And on top of that, he was spared having to face the full impact of losing the XJ Saabs.

I'd have to say it's a Win-win-win-win. So please, give me a break.

 

[CptMurf]

And tell me how a 99 hire's life will be affected? Same equipment. Same base. Same pay. A fair bet that he'll hold a comparable schedule. And on top of that, he was spared having to face the full impact of losing the XJ Saabs.

I'd have to say it's a Win-win-win-win. So please, give me a break.

I think his point was just the 7 year upgrade remark. We've had people that have had that or longer for a long while at XJ.

Also, there are 20 something CAs on the XJ Saab that were hired previous to '99. And XJ CAs got NO raise whatsoever. The ONLY win for a '99 hire was if they made it into group I for the SLI. If they missed this group it was no raise, huge loss in DOH seniority, and a possible displacement. In no way, would I consider this a "win."

 

[WMUSIGPI]

I think his point was just the 7 year upgrade remark. We've had people that have had that or longer for a long while at XJ.

Also, there are 20 something CAs on the XJ Saab that were hired previous to '99. And XJ CAs got NO raise whatsoever. The ONLY win for a '99 hire was if they made it into group I for the SLI. If they missed this group it was no raise, huge loss in DOH seniority, and a possible displacement. In no way, would I consider this a "win."

Somebody got the point.
Not to mention many of our fo's are now passing 4 years (granted those have no idea what reserve is) with no upgrade in sight (while 2010 hires at Colgan continue to upgrade) or 3 years all on reserve.

 

[CptMurf]

Here's my take...

There are individual winners and losers from each pre merger lists. The award was not meant to keep that from happening. That was inevitable. It was meant to keep a group from receiving a windfall. Was that achieved? Who knows, it will takes years to look back and see. Each group had gains, each had losses. None of them were in a good situation to begin with, and all brought problems with them. If you think your company was "the best" or "saved" another, your delusional. None of them were good! They all would or could have suffered big losses of airframes due to fuel costs, operational performance, or just being a Tprop. None of our jobs were safe, or were our company politics/culture the best.

Now we can blame others, point fingers, or compare losses all we want, but the reality is, the seniority list is not going to change. It is now time to move forward... together. We need to stop complaining, and start coming together to form a strong union, and cohesive pilot group. Infighting will only lead to forming separatist groups within the ranks, such as the "Red book/Green book" or "Delta North/South" or even "East/West." Or we can come together to form a profitable (Corp and Individuals), safe, and efficient airline. The choice is ours, and it will be happening soon. My choice is made. I am looking forward to training on Sept. 12th. I am looking forward to wearing black-n-gold. And I am looking forward to helping the company, myself, and other pilots into becoming a successful enterprise.

 

[xjhawk]

I am willing to bet you won't get an ounce of sympathy from Mesaba 99 to 01 hires over that.... Especially those 01's that also got fisted in the SLI.

actually the 00' hires and senior to them got a pretty good deal when you look at the ones hired in 01'-04' it is that seniority that will be leaving pinnacle faster than the Jews left Egypt in the Exodus. Now all we can hope for is a little devine intervention and a great parting of the sea in order to get hired somewhere of quality!

 

[Jamis81]

We need documentation to be passed out with every vacancy so we can see how many planes are left in the quotas. It is my understanding that Mesaba filled theirs on both planes with this one? Can anyone confirm that?

Also, I think it would be nice to be provided a list of every base and seat so we can see where we stack up on each airplane. Seeing the bid packs for every plane would work and then we can also see what kind of trips there are in each base.

I couldn't agree more.. Also, Maybe it is time for a joint company website, with one Flight Ops section.. One place for all the bid packs, etc.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

actually the 00' hires and senior to them got a pretty good deal when you look at the ones hired in 01'-04' it is that seniority that will be leaving pinnacle faster than the Jews left Egypt in the Exodus. Now all we can hope for is a little devine intervention and a great parting of the sea in order to get hired somewhere of quality!

True, but those were the ones that at best made it to the end of high mins and got an extra couple years in the right seat becasue of the bankruptcy. Yes the 99 and most of the 00 hires did acceptable in the SLI. My only point was we have a lot of people that spent a lot of time in the right seat. And unfortunately some of those of us in that 01 to 05 block my find ourselves back there again soon (and not even at the top because of how the SLI went) And as such our current fo's will be looking at a long time to upgrade too (since it seems all the Colgan bases were restricted to Colgan upgrades)

 

[bri5150]

I couldn't agree more.. Also, Maybe it is time for a joint company website, with one Flight Ops section.. One place for all the bid packs, etc.

I know, right? I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Not a dang thing has been integrated except the seniority list, and that was the union's responsibility. It has been over a year for god's sake.