Pinnacle, Mesaba, Colgan get TA

[Smarta$$]

ALPA merger policy. There will be no "snap-snap" from the Office Space stapler. Maybe if you guys do some more informational picketing you could get 2 to 1.

Got you a contract with better vacation and health insurance.

 

[Smarta$$]

Can't really compare it - the full thing isn't out yet. Only the supposedly good stuff is in the summary. Depends on equipment, seat, longevity, and family status. The bling of the pay rates is blinding everyone to the other hand in their pocket. Not all the information is out yet but from what is....

The PCL 900 pilots that use the family health plan go backwards after taxes and medical expenses, their raises are too small to compensate for the increase in the health plan

For the 200 guys it is a mixed bag - it will depend on wether they use the family medical plan, seat and longevity. Senior pilots over 15 years win big but for pilots less than that it's not clear cut. FO's that use the family plan could lose income after medical expenses. The single guys that forgo medical coverage do well.

In scheduling it looks like management finally got some things they have wanted for a long time. For line holders when your flights cancel you are on reserve - except we're going to call it 'time available'. It's still reserve. We've always had that as the pilots option - now there is no choice. The limits on refusing extensions and JA's are concessionary. In effect what we have always called 'extensions' that were refusable here are now called 'JA's' and we can only refuse 3 a year. Reserves and junior line holders will use their yearly allotment in two months. HUGE concession from the current book. Using line holders as reserves has been managements wet dream for years and they finaly got it.

For reserves they will get a minimum of 10 days of a month, after they are 'JA'd' once a month. That's an improvemnt over the current book but management got reserve out of domicle. We tried that once here and it was a disaster. Get used to five days in GSO, IND, CVG or any other 'focus' city. Currently they can do this only on a volunteer basis, now the junior reserves will have no choice. The LCR language is not in the current book but appears to be largely concessionary from the rejected TA. The number of reserves that option will be available to is greatly reduced.

The only thing managment has wanted that I didn't see in the TA summary was IROP language. Every day is an 'IROP' at PCL. If that shows up in the final language I'll puke.

The rest of the stuff in the summary, commuter clause, building the lines, etc was pretty much either current '99 book or current practice.

Still waiting for more and undecided.

I love it, still defending TA1 and your buddies that produced a TA that failed miserably.

Your trying to save face because we achieved things that you guys said we could NEVER get out of management such as 11 days off for reserves, and a Min day for everyone.

 

[Simon Says]

I hope the rest of the Colgan group isn't as unedecuated/slow as yourself. It sounds to me that you need a dose of reality.

How embarassing. I tell this guy that he is uneducated and I spell the freaking word wrong.

 

[sinkrate]

Your trying to save face because we achieved things that you guys said we could NEVER get out of management such as 11 days off for reserves, and a Min day for everyone.

The JCBA Agreement has 11 scheduled days off for reserves but they can be JA'd down to 10. Scheduling will ignore the comp day requests and force them to take the pay or grieve it. Like they have soooo many times before. The MIN day was always on the table - if you were willing to pay for it. This time you will.

 

[suupah]

You two that will vote no...you guys are not too bright. Don't you think this is better than what 9L would have seen if you would have negotiated on your own? Voting down something good for principal that you want to pass is epic stupidity! Ever heard of cutting off your nose to spite your face?

You don't understand because you have no idea what we have been through with this Q program. three years of utter hell. This rate is a slap in the face.

I understand why it has to be this way, I understand that it is going to pass with this rate. Don't expect me to be happy about it. It's time for the company to recognize the initial cadre of pilots that laid the foundation for the future of this company. That foundation was laid with investigations, violations, long days and many many hard lessons that the future Q pilots will never have to learn the hard way like we did. I just want a rate right off of the bat that recognizes this.

I have close to 2500 hours in this plane. I have seen the evolution of how it is operated. It has evolved from an operation that seemed destined to fail, to one that looks like it will have a bright future ahead of it. This successful future is due in large part to pilots like me and my fellow brethren at CJC with CJC ALPA serving as a conduit to the company. If you think otherwise, you are not aware of the history of this airplane with this company. The other idiot and I just want recognition for our contribution, up front. The future success of the aircraft type is tied to us, shouldn't a share of future profits also be tied to us, now?

I'm sure at heart, there is not a Q pilot at CJC that doesn't feel this way. Whether they express it outwardly or not. This is an emotional argument, but after what we have been through, it's pretty tough to not let emotions enter into the equation.

 

[DoinTime]

You don't understand because you have no idea what we have been through with this Q program. three years of utter hell. This rate is a slap in the face.

I understand why it has to be this way, I understand that it is going to pass with this rate. Don't expect me to be happy about it. It's time for the company to recognize the initial cadre of pilots that laid the foundation for the future of this company. That foundation was laid with investigations, violations, long days and many many hard lessons that the future Q pilots will never have to learn the hard way like we did. I just want a rate right off of the bat that recognizes this.

I have close to 2500 hours in this plane. I have seen the evolution of how it is operated. It has evolved from an operation that seemed destined to fail, to one that looks like it will have a bright future ahead of it. This successful future is due in large part to pilots like me and my fellow brethren at CJC with CJC ALPA serving as a conduit to the company. If you think otherwise, you are not aware of the history of this airplane with this company. The other idiot and I just want recognition for our contribution, up front. The future success of the aircraft type is tied to us, shouldn't a share of future profits also be tied to us, now?

I'm sure at heart, there is not a Q pilot at CJC that doesn't feel this way. Whether they express it outwardly or not. This is an emotional argument, but after what we have been through, it's pretty tough to not let emotions enter into the equation.

So do you think that other pilots under the Pinnacle Corp umbrella should have had to take a pay cut to fund your 25+% pay rate increase (plus all the other goodies in this TA) that you felt entitled to?

 

[Thurman Merman]

You don't understand because you have no idea what we have been through with this Q program. three years of utter hell. This rate is a slap in the face.

I understand why it has to be this way, I understand that it is going to pass with this rate. Don't expect me to be happy about it. It's time for the company to recognize the initial cadre of pilots that laid the foundation for the future of this company. That foundation was laid with investigations, violations, long days and many many hard lessons that the future Q pilots will never have to learn the hard way like we did. I just want a rate right off of the bat that recognizes this.

I have close to 2500 hours in this plane. I have seen the evolution of how it is operated. It has evolved from an operation that seemed destined to fail, to one that looks like it will have a bright future ahead of it. This successful future is due in large part to pilots like me and my fellow brethren at CJC with CJC ALPA serving as a conduit to the company. If you think otherwise, you are not aware of the history of this airplane with this company. The other idiot and I just want recognition for our contribution, up front. The future success of the aircraft type is tied to us, shouldn't a share of future profits also be tied to us, now?

I'm sure at heart, there is not a Q pilot at CJC that doesn't feel this way. Whether they express it outwardly or not. This is an emotional argument, but after what we have been through, it's pretty tough to not let emotions enter into the equation.[/QUOT

Having been one of the 11 initial cadre for the Q, I could not agree more. I've been gone for 2 years now, but I still have great friends slugging it out in the trenches. I am glad ya'll got a TA in place, but from what I am seeing the Q rates are lower than deserved. The FAA (read Chris M...) were out for blood during those proving runs, all of us were ready to quit but we cowboyed up and got that plane on line. This doesn't affect me, but the initial cadre guys still there are going on 7+ years of service. From what I can read the junoir guys hired on the Q did well for themselves but the guys who were there when the CJC had more 1900's than Saabs were not compensated for their sacrifices. These senoir guys are the reasons ALPA's on property now. That airplane is a money maker and should be on par NOW with CRJ200 rates(or greater), it sure makes a lot more money. I know not everybody is going to be satisfied, but a tip of the hat would have been nice.

 

[suupah]

So do you think that other pilots under the Pinnacle Corp umbrella should have had to take a pay cut to fund your 25+% pay rate increase (plus all the other goodies in this TA) that you felt entitled to?

no they absolutely shouldn't. the company can afford the pay parity, and they should pay it.

 

[CptMurf]

JMing has been almost non-existent at XJ for a long time. It does happen, but it is the exception, not the rule. There are some work rules that will stop most of the JMing 9E sees now. Biggest one is not checking out, and no obligation to answer the phone. It is then up to you to answer first, then decide whether to refuse. Same with extensions.

 

[WayBack]

no they absolutely shouldn't. the company can afford the pay parity, and they should pay it.

They should, but this is a failure in the negotiating. They threw the CJC guys under the bus to get what they wanted.
They just figure CJC has always been the red headed step child, so why change now?