Pinnacle Continues Hiring and Lowering Standards

[FN FAL]

]I always try to encourage my FOs to make a decision while being the Flying and Non Flying Pilot. I then ask them to offer an explanation as to why they chose that decision. Then we discuss what I think and take the best answer.

If you could afford a laptop, you would be able to flip it open and play solitaire, leaving the FO alone in peace and quiet so's he/she could read their newspaper or whatever it is that kids read today.

 

[TedCFII]

If you could afford a laptop, you would be able to flip it open and play solitaire, leaving the FO alone in peace and quiet so's he/she could read their newspaper or whatever it is that kids read today.

I said I "try to encourage" them. If they are sitting on their hands while listening to their Ipods, fine, I'll read my USAToday, Book, Magazine or fire up my laptop. Then I don't have to listen to them whining :bawling:about how they should be in the leftseat!

 

[flyboyike]

Dumb Pilot, that washout rate sounds incredibly high. Those are the kind of numbers that make me wonder whether PCL should improve their training department, or hire more qualified pilots, or both.

Actually, that washout looks similar to some long-haul carriers, Cathay Pacific, for example.

 

[redflyer65]

Just a word on the training department....It has made some huge improvements over the past year and is getting better everyday.

Increased sim hours. Ground school taught by actual RJ senior captains. Re-current ground completely re-vamped. New manuals throughout. Great OE pilots for line orientations and line checks. Cat 2 training.

I would say that there is still room for improvement, but these are some big gains for this company. And I would say that with the current manager of training these trends will probably continue. If you make it through the interview and study hard all the way through training, you will make it no problem. You will also find people willing to give you a hand but all you have to do is ask. Don't just sit on your hands and wonder about something, ask the question.

 

[flyboyike]

Don't just sit on your hands and wonder about something, ask the question.

Isn't it amazing how many people lack the common sense to do just that?

 

[100LL... Again!]

What should we do to get prepared for the CRJ. I am an instructor and just had a friend I worked with get on at Pinnacle and he said no amount of time instructing would prrepare you for FO training, other than instrument knowledge.

Ummm, yes.

That would be the most important skill you can take to airline training.
If you rock at instruments, very few airplanes will be intimidating during training.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Dumb Pilot, that washout rate sounds incredibly high. Those are the kind of numbers that make me wonder whether PCL should improve their training department, or hire more qualified pilots, or both.

I definitely agree that things are getting better in terms of the training department, finally after us (Trainers) yelling to the top of our lungs that things should be changed they finally hire a true Vice President of Operations (Not the knuckle head reject from eagle that we had before) and he brought people that he trusted (All Ex FDX, Check airmen) and they have cleaned house quite a bit. We finally moved from professional instructors and moved towards line captains teaching. Changed the culture of the same VOR DME to rwy 27 in MEM. And we are including challenging airports during training and LOFT's DCA, JFK, DEN ect. They are listening to our recommendations and following them instead of jumping from instructor to instructor until someone told them what they wanted to hear (Usually the cheapest solution) Now if I recommend some more sim training for somebody that I feel is week in one area during OE. That person will get the extra sim time or additional ground instruction time or whatever we feel that might help. Hell, sometimes I get the individuals and bring them to my house on my time to bring them up to speed if I have to. And most of the Checks go the extra mile doing this kind of stuff all the time.
As to hiring better qualified individuals, this is out of our hands in training because is a matter of economics. I would love to get my hands on some of those MSA folks that are getting furloughed but who is going to come here to start from the bottom making Mcwaiges
when they can get a corporate or a flexjet type of job? The ideal situation would be to get better qualified individuals, that would certainly make my life a little easier. But the money is just not there.
The wash out rate is relatively high for two main factors. Our standards have gone up and the experience level of the folks that are applying is low.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Isn't it amazing how many people lack the common sense to do just that?

Why do they call it "Common Sense" if it is so rare is my question? Hey FlyboyIke, did you started ground already? I want to get my hands on you boy!

 

[flyboyike]

Why do they call it "Common Sense" if it is so rare is my question? Hey FlyboyIke, did you started ground already? I want to get my hands on you boy!

Check your PMs. And, uh, I would be careful about "getting your hands on me"thing. Some people might misunderstand...hehe-hehe.

 

[DoinTime]

We at PCL are training low time folks but I can guarantee that we are not giving positions away. the washout rate during the whole process, from Interview (About 80-85% washout) To ground (About a third washout) sim (About half) to OE (round 20% washout) is very intense and fast paced. Now having said that YOU CAN MAKE IT. And we will put our best efforts into training you to be a proficient F/O but at the end depends on you! and your will to succeed.

Are you saying that on average PCL line qualifies about four new hire pilots for every 100 interviewed? I got to wave the bull sh*t flag here. How about we get some non-embelished numbers next time.

 

[redflyer65]

Thanks for the post DP, I have heard that the problems lately have come from the OE area rather than the sim check, but that could be from the upgrades and not the new hires.

I'm really glad to see the drastically needed improvements. It's about time that we have some people that know how to run a training department and make it work. I can tell you from a line prospective that it's much better.

RF

 

[pookie]

I have been to a skywest and a pinnacle interview and countless others but from my experiences, skywest is so much tougher than pinnacle. The average pilot is also much different at skywest, most are educated from prior experiences while the pinnacle guys seem mostly recent college grads and interns.

 

[jetfo]

No not at all. I think about 3500 hours is a minimum for the right seat of any 121 operation. With about 1500 to 2000 hours multi. Turbine would be a good thing. But not required in my book.

That's what it used to be, but now realistically an ATP should be required to fly for a 121 carrier. And, that is not unreasonable and would uphold the standards in the industry.

Jumpseated on a Mesa CRJ 900 the other day, the FO was doing IOE. As it turns out, he was from the Mesa Pilot Developement Program with a little over 250 hours TT flying a 86-90 seat RJ, and I use the term RJ with reluctance. He had trouble just running the radios and the captain was essentially flying single pilot.

We all need to start somewhere and need to learn, but I don't think the first job coming out of flight school should be flying for a 121 carrier in a CRJ900. I know some foreign airlines are doing something along those lines, but their selection criteria are extremenly high and they have an extensive in house training program. And, even there I still think it is not enough. There is no substitute for experience.

 

[mynameisjim]

That's what it used to be, but now realistically an ATP should be required to fly for a 121 carrier. .

That's what it used to be? No.

Talk to some retired guys who will tell you that showing up with a pulse is what it used to be. Come with a commercial single and we'll give you your multi in Super Connie class.

I think the real problem is that regional jets used to be flown by high time guys in the late 90's, so the jet training was geared for that. That time is gone, but the training hasn't changed yet.

 

[SEVEN]

The average pilot is also much different at skywest, most are educated from prior experiences while the pinnacle guys seem mostly recent college grads and interns.

Or still in high school for that matter.