Pinnacle Continues Hiring and Lowering Standards

[Dumb Pilot]

I think I know who you are. Jason, how can you hold so much anger in such a little frame?
Have any fueler punched you lately?

 

[wudalmstfly4fre]

What is that suppose to mean?

 

[honeycomb]

When I figure it out I'll let you know. You got me.

 

[CaptETWes]

It just seems to me that 500 or 5000 hrs of instructing isn't going to prepare me for FO training and I could only dream of getting any turbine time right now. Don't really want to sit around and wait on it either but if it would come along I'd take it and hold off on the regionals for a while.

It seems you have a bit of a confidence issue. Let the interviewers determine if they think you are ready. As I've alluded to earlier, you do have a say in how much time you have before you begin to interview. In the end, it's all about your condfidence in your abilities and how much drive to succeed you have inside you. With the right work ethic, study habits, and determination you can do just about anything in this world.

I had zero turbine time prior to joining my regional. Notice that this thread isn't necessarily about the ability to fly regional jets, but more so about the experience and thus decision-making abilities. You will be able to fly these jets; that's the easy part. It's everything else is what's difficult; procedures, FCM, FOM, regs, more advanced ADM, CRM, union contracts, work rules, commuting, and so on and so forth. It's intimidating to know that if you wash out from training that's a black mark that will haunt you in this industry forever. You just have to calm yourself down and rely on the training you receive.

You will never stop learning in aviation, so don't expect that you must before heading to the airlines.

 

[Almerick07]

honeycomb.....pinnacle is not pft, infact they offer $200 a week living allowence, hotel and after completion of IOE whoever recommended you gets $1000. Things there have changed, they arent great but better than they were.

 

[CrownandCoke]

CRJ Pilot 7/28/2006
Minimum 500TT w/ME; prefer 750 to 1000 TT w/ME; Aviation 480 - CRJ Preferred; first class medical; ATP written preferred and taken by interview date preferred.
Email: [email protected]

I guess the 500tt is now for everyone not just "special applicants " They continue to lower the bar for the entire industry as well as put "unqualified" pilots in the right seat to play co-pilot. I wish this was flame-bait but sorry to say, it's not. :bomb:....waiting to happen........

you got this off the UND website, I'm sure. UND has a CRJ sim that many regionals have used and liked. ASA reduces their minimums for any UND student that has gone through the CRJ program.

As for the low time, who cares? I am not making decisions in the left seat, I don't have the experience for that. I talked to a high time ASA person, who said they like hiring with low time because "we can hire you on before you have developed bad habits". 500 hours, 1500 hours, 2500 hours, who cares? I'm sick of people telling me unless I have 15000 hours I am inexperienced.

 

[Rook]

As for the low time, who cares? I am not making decisions in the left seat, I don't have the experience for that. quote]

But what if your Captain's # is up and he/she has a heart attack or something? You're hired to be a future captain.

 

[CrownandCoke]

As for the low time, who cares? I am not making decisions in the left seat, I don't have the experience for that. quote]

But what if your Captain's # is up and he/she has a heart attack or something? You're hired to be a future captain.

I know I am hired to be a future captain, but what better way to learn than in the right seat of the airline that I am going to be a captain at???

 

[Bringupthebird]

As for the low time, who cares? I am not making decisions in the left seat, I don't have the experience for that.

Maybe the people you are carrying care. They pay just as much for an RJ flight as one staffed by mainline pilots. They didn't buy their tickets with the knowledge that one of the pilots is just learning. They expect both pilots to have substantial experience, judgement and maturity. If the total experience level of the pilots was fully disclosed, how many people would choose a different flight? What does a pilot with no experience from which to cultivate good judgement bring to the cockpit besides a set of cool sunglasses and a backpack flightbag?

I'm sick of people telling me unless I have 15000 hours I am inexperienced.

No, if you have flown a variety of aircraft in a variety of weather conditions of a number of years before using that experience to carry passengers in jet equipment then you probably meet most reasonable people's definition of "experienced". As for "mature", well that's another matter.

 

[ricecake]

Hours don't mean a whole lot IMHO. I’ve flown with high time jackass captains and I’ve seen capable people with lower time. Maybe the people in charge know something about that, and when you or I start running the airline then we can dictate who gets the gig.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

As Americans, embrace free market captialism. Supply and demand.

The FAA has established safety criteria, as long as that is being met and the seats are filled and dollars made, what is the problem?

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I talked to a high time ASA person, who said they like hiring with low time because "we can hire you on before you have developed bad habits". 500 hours, 1500 hours, 2500 hours, who cares? I'm sick of people telling me unless I have 15000 hours I am inexperienced.

The little detail that they failed to tell you is that the "Bad Habits" that they are referring to is knowledge about how the airlines treat their employees, therefore it is easier for them to mold you into an obedient monkey that doesn't ask any questions and does what they say just to be able to put your A$$ in a 22 Million piece of equipment.

One thing that kind of bothers me about this whole conversation is that folks are putting magic numbers on being "experienced" and there isn't such a thing. I don't consider myself particularly experienced and every time I go up with a new pilot in the company during OE I also learn something. And I'm going on 11,000 hours and 25 years flying. So please stop introducing the 1,500 hour mark as some sort of magic number where you will be experienced because it is plain dangerous to think that way.

About the 500 hour guys and gals. I have first knowledge about how they perform since I'm a Check here at PinchNikle.
Somebody posted previously that attitude goes a long way. This is most certainly true. We will keep working with you as long as you show the motivation and the drive to do the work, now most likely (Certain almost) you won't complete OE within the first scheduled session of OE that is 30 hours. It will take much longer, 60 70 hour of OE is typical, but you know what? they just served you a roasted elephant. You know how you will eat it? One bite at a time.
You CAN make it into the line with low time, but we are not going to give it to you. You have to want it bad and work your a$$ off studying and learning about this deal, because it isn't only about operating the CRJ but rather operating the CRJ in the system of a major carrier to some of the busiest airports in North America.
We at PCL are training low time folks but I can guarantee that we are not giving positions away. the washout rate during the whole process, from Interview (About 80-85% washout)
To ground (About a third washout) sim (About half) to OE (round 20% washout) is very intense and fast paced.
Now having said that YOU CAN MAKE IT. And we will put our best efforts into training you to be a proficient F/O but at the end depends on you! and your will to succeed.

 

[honeycomb]

The little detail that they failed to tell you is that the "Bad Habits" that they are referring to is knowledge about how the airlines treat their employees, therefore it is easier for them to mold you into an obedient monkey that doesn't ask any questions and does what they say just to be able to put your A$$ in a 22 Million piece of equipment.

Now that is total true and to the point.

 

[SEVEN]

you got this off the UND website, I'm sure. UND has a CRJ sim that many regionals have used and liked. ASA reduces their minimums for any UND student that has gone through the CRJ program.

As for the low time, who cares? I am not making decisions in the left seat, I don't have the experience for that. I talked to a high time ASA person, who said they like hiring with low time because "we can hire you on before you have developed bad habits". 500 hours, 1500 hours, 2500 hours, who cares? I'm sick of people telling me unless I have 15000 hours I am inexperienced.

It was taking from a pilot job website. www.skyjobs.net

 

[imacdog]

Dumb Pilot, that washout rate sounds incredibly high. Those are the kind of numbers that make me wonder whether PCL should improve their training department, or hire more qualified pilots, or both.

 

[CrownandCoke]

You CAN make it into the line with low time, but we are not going to give it to you. You have to want it bad and work your a$$ off studying and learning about this deal, because it isn't only about operating the CRJ but rather operating the CRJ in the system of a major carrier to some of the busiest airports in North America.
We at PCL are training low time folks but I can guarantee that we are not giving positions away. the washout rate during the whole process, from Interview (About 80-85% washout)
To ground (About a third washout) sim (About half) to OE (round 20% washout) is very intense and fast paced.
Now having said that YOU CAN MAKE IT. And we will put our best efforts into training you to be a proficient F/O but at the end depends on you! and your will to succeed.

I made it through OE with 30 hours. I did bust my ass in the sims, I worked hard, because I wanted it. I wanted to fly a jet, and I knew I could. The sim instructors were fantastic and my OE captains were great. They prepared me well, IMO.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Total time is not so much about how well a person can fly, it is simply a yardstick used to give a rough idea about how much experience a pilot has making aviation decisions. Obviously, not all time is the same. Obviously, not all low-time pilots are incapable of good decision-making. Obviously, not all high-time pilots are good sticks, pleasant to share a flight deck with, or good decision-makers.

Total time is a somewhat arbitrary, totally imprecise way to roughly get at something that is difficult to quantify.

I understand why low-time guys are defensive. No one likes to have their qualifications for the job they're in questioned or attacked. A 500-hour guy believes he has paid dues, because 500 hours of flying is a lot of work. But a 5,000-hour guy was there once, and knows what he knew then compared to what he knows now.

So let's be realistic: The airlines are not going to stop driving the minimum qualifications lower; partly because low-time guys are generally hungrier, more compliant, less-troublesome employees willing to do the job for the compensation offered. And there is some truth to the notion that, purely from a training stand-point, younger, lower-time pilots are probably more adept at the rote memorization that's such a big part of airline initial training.

If you polled instructors versus line captains, I bet you'd get quite a disparity in their opinions about what makes a good new-hire FO. The one thing they would probably agree on is that attitude is fundamental.

As for the pressure that lower mins have on wages: Does anyone really think that if you had to have 1,500 hours to get a 121 FO slot, first year pay would remain $19/hour for long?

 

[hoover]

I foresee a time, in the not too distant future, when the airlines will be forced to train their own pilots, from 0 time to CPL to First Officer qualified. They are getting to the point where not going to be able to lower their minimums, unless the FAA changes certification standards. Airplane rentals and instructor rates keeping going up, pay rates keeping going down. Only the well to do can afford flight training, and why would they want to work for less than 30K year?

The pilot shortage is coming!

 

[akseiner]

honeycomb.....pinnacle is not pft, infact they offer $200 a week living allowence, hotel and after completion of IOE whoever recommended you gets $1000. Things there have changed, they arent great but better than they were.

Is this true? Anyone want to recommend me? Easy $1000.

 

[TedCFII]

As for the low time, who cares? I am not making decisions in the left seat, I don't have the experience for that.

If you don't start making decisions while in the right seat how will you ever make a decison once you get to the left seat?

I always try to encourage my FOs to make a decision while being the Flying and Non Flying Pilot. I then ask them to offer an explanation as to why they chose that decision. Then we discuss what I think and take the best answer. You have to be proactive while being an FO. If you just sit there and not do anything while "building time" then you will have an even harder time when your number is called for upgrade. I don't know how long it is now, but when I went through upgrade they were experimenting with the new "short course". Luckily for me it was not my first jet, plus I had been an FO on the CRJ for about a year and had around 1000 hours in the CRJ. As well as I had been an FO for 3 years with the same company.(EXA/PCL)




The so called short course if I remember correctly was 8 days of class, Oral, 2 CPTs, 4 Sim Sessions, Type Ride, LOFT and then off to OE.