Pinnacle Buying Colgan

[usav8or]

Things to think about from the 1/22 AM conference call:

1) This is all new to me, but why are 9E pilots so worried about from 9L pilots? You guys are the ones with the scope contract and obviously have more resources to expand into US CO and UA markets, and have had a Saab program in the past.

Colgan has talked about jets in the past, but realisticly, they couldn't keep up with them. As long as the "Family" is in charge I wouldn't worry. When "the forseable future" is expiring that's when things are going to change. I'd have a plan in place for that inevitability, but rest assured we will have nothing to say about it.

If you are really sincere about how 9L crews are treated over the next couple of years and how it relates to your relationship to PCL my advice would be to talk to us as equals that are inexperienced with the ways of ALPA and what both groups need to do for each other. Just staying off the radar scope isn't enough anymore, welcome to reality.

2) On a conference call relating to our purchase by PCL and what it means to us is not the time to be asking about what bases are opening and which out-station is going to fly the route. Come on, there is a time and place for questions like that, but not on this call. It makes us look petty and small. If I were a Pinnacle pilot I would not be impressed at our performance if all I knew of 9L pilots came from this call.

The time to only be looking at our own little world within Colgan is over and it's time to start looking at the big picture. We cannot soley rely on info from Manassas anymore, they don't the final word anymore.

Personally, I don't like unions but they do have there place in this industry and in these situations.

 

[Lear70]

Things to think about from the 1/22 AM conference call:

1) This is all new to me, but why are 9E pilots so worried about from 9L pilots? You guys are the ones with the scope contract and obviously have more resources to expand into US CO and UA markets, and have had a Saab program in the past.

Because Nonconnah has, in the past, REPEATEDLY proven they will get around the contract every single possible tiny way they can, even if it ruins their good will with the pilot group over pennies.

Just a fact, and the PCL pilots probably are going on past experience and anticipating the worst.

Personally, I don't like unions but they do have there place in this industry and in these situations.

Sad, but true.

Good luck!

 

[CoATP]

PCL pilots probably are going on past experience and anticipating the worst.

And Ye shall be rarely disappointed and surprised by the results. "Nonconnah" is Memphis talk for "lieing is a way of life."

 

[Mr Wu]

It might be a little easier to deal with you guys and talk about union issues if I knew that your MEC was not, at this very moment, revising the scope proposal in the next contract that will probably try to limit the size and mumber of aircraft that Colgan can fly. If you say that they are not doing this, then they should all be fired because they are not doing what you are paying them for - protecting your work group. If they really are not doing this then they should be fired anyway because what good are they?

 

[another cfii]

I hope at least Colgan pilots won't have to wear our headpin, the CFIT satellite dish... At least our FOM says hats are optional..

BTW, do you guys wear your hats in the Saab and 1900? Just don't want to bring down our level of professionalism, ya know?

 

[Mr Wu]

BTW, do you guys wear your hats in the Saab and 1900?

We have to wear the hat for all public contact. We wear the hat when flying the 1900 because the doors are open and the pax can see us.

 

[Lear70]

We have to wear the hat for all public contact. We wear the hat when flying the 1900 because the doors are open and the pax can see us.

You're bullsh*tting us, right?

 

[beechcowboy]

Yes I am standing on the sidelines as many of my fellow soilders are at Colgan. We don't know what the hell is going on. We are quite sick of Pinnacle pilots infiltrating our posts. We were very happy in our misery before you union talking annoying people came along. It's very simple if they intend to keep us seperate we don't give a crap about pinnacles pilot group and union. If they intend to use us in some way to screw the pinnacle pilots then yeah we will listen about this foreign to us union stuff. Until we see something change in our everyday lives however we don't care.

C'mon, be real. Infiltrating your posts. This is a public forum; an often full of chit public forum. These guys are damn worried, and with good reason. If management were to impose some new scope / work rules / whatever on your groups, Pinnacle pilots stand to be negatively impacted. I won't get into specifics. You guys can take a hit also. What if PCL comes to Colgan and says you guys are going to fly 15 PCL jets at current wages. OR, the negotiate new wages, but they are still less than PCL current wage (which still isn't that good, they will admit that). THEN WHAT? You, a Colgan pilot, have two choices, stay and do the job, or leave on principle and go to another airline. Why, because you don't believe in taking another's flying just b/c you will work for less. Could this happen? ABSOLUTELY. If you wait until it does, it is too late. Will it happen, who knows? We need all pilots to be proactive. Like I said, I'm not calling anyone any names and I'm not pointing fingers. I am just saying that it is better to be steering the ship than being dragged behind. If we an collaborate all US pilots into one voice, one union; then we have an opportunity to truly change the negative trend that our profession has seen in past years. Imagine the power of one voice. Imagine the power of a united, focussed group of pilots who say "no, we (insert airline) will not work for less just to win the flying that (insert airline) currently provides to (insert blood sucking legacy carrier name)." No more games, just flying. Your coach is calling you off the bench, get in the game and get educated now, not later. Union dues are a small price to pay to try to consolidate our interests and secure our futures. Best of luck.

 

[Lear70]

Not to mention they're tax-deductable.

blood-sucking legacy carrier... heh heh, that's pretty good stuff right thar'.

 

[Kaman]

Unfortunately, airline unions in the United States don't work in the way you have described. There will never be a single-voiced pilots union in this country. It all boils down to "meat in the seat" at the cheapest price that is either imposed or negotiated.
The biggest issue is the PCL pilot group's contention that ANY new flying will be performed by Pinnacle Airlines, Inc. and if Colgan Air is awarded any additional UEX, COEX or USEX flying PCL pilots contend that they should be able to bid this flying off a single seniority list. I honestly don't know what is legal and what isn't, but I do know that we should let the dust settle a bit before making any rash decisions or antagonizing another group of pilots. A bit of "cooling off" should be the order of the day, and let's see what the lawyers have to say.
PCL pilots need to understand that a good majority of pilots here at Colgan won't be here in 1-2 years and honestly don't have a whole lot vested in your arguments about scope, contracts, seniority lists, etc... Given the bottom feeding of pilot training schools that PCL recruits from along with Colgan Air I imagine that a good chunk of your pilots will be voting with their feet. Those of us that either choose to remain for the time being will have to evaluate their own situation if things appear to be changing for the worst.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[Smarta$$]

Unfortunately, airline unions in the United States don't work in the way you have described. There will never be a single-voiced pilots union in this country. It all boils down to "meat in the seat" at the cheapest price that is either imposed or negotiated.
The biggest issue is the PCL pilot group's contention that ANY new flying will be performed by Pinnacle Airlines, Inc. and if Colgan Air is awarded any additional UEX, COEX or USEX flying PCL pilots contend that they should be able to bid this flying off a single seniority list. I honestly don't know what is legal and what isn't, but I do know that we should let the dust settle a bit before making any rash decisions or antagonizing another group of pilots. A bit of "cooling off" should be the order of the day, and let's see what the lawyers have to say.
PCL pilots need to understand that a good majority of pilots here at Colgan won't be here in 1-2 years and honestly don't have a whole lot vested in your arguments about scope, contracts, seniority lists, etc... Given the bottom feeding of pilot training schools that PCL recruits from along with Colgan Air I imagine that a good chunk of your pilots will be voting with their feet. Those of us that either choose to remain for the time being will have to evaluate their own situation if things appear to be changing for the worst.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

I am getting REALLY sick of hearing, "I won't be hear in 1-2 years, so F-ck the guys behind me as its not my problem."

 

[BirdCatcher]

I am getting REALLY sick of hearing, "I won't be hear in 1-2 years, so F-ck the guys behind me as its not my problem."

Sadly, it's been the Colgan way. We really never had anyone watching our back so we just take care of oursleves.

 

[TurboAWD]

PCL pilots need to understand that a good majority of pilots here at Colgan won't be here in 1-2 years and honestly don't have a whole lot vested in your arguments about scope, contracts, seniority lists, etc...

WRONG!
They have the rest of their professional careers vested in it.

Turbo

 

[Lear70]

WRONG!
They have the rest of their professional careers vested in it.

Turbo

You have your job cut out for you if you think you can convince him of that.

That takes a LOT of forward thinking and a lot of thought into the symbiotic relationship between the regionals, LCC's, and majors and their interrelated labor woes.

 

[Mr Wu]

You have your job cut out for you if you think you can convince him of that.

That takes a LOT of forward thinking and a lot of thought into the symbiotic relationship between the regionals, LCC's, and majors and their interrelated labor woes.

He didn't try to convince him. He made a bullsh!t threat and tried to conceal it in a statement. Whoever said that they are sick of hearing about how we'll be gone in two years, you know how we feel about hearing about your bullsh!t attempt to protect yourselves at our expense. I was ready to sign a card last Thursday but since reading all the pre-packaged shyte that you are spewing, I'll take my chances and wait and see. Kaman is right, Colganites. Let the dust settle and things cool off, then make your decision.

 

[TurboAWD]

He didn't try to convince him. He made a bullsh!t threat and tried to conceal it in a statement.

What the heck are you talking about????

I said they have their careers vested in it because what happens at the regionals effects the majors, what happens at one airline effects another.

What someone gets paid to fly a 1900 effects what I get paid to fly a CRJ. What I get paid ultimately effects what a FEDEX pilot gets paid to fly a MD11. Same goes for work rules and job protection.

I have know idea how you perceived my statement as a threat.

EDIT: Were you thinking that I meant Colgan pilots not becoming union makes them sort of GoJet/Freedumb pricks? That is NOT what I was saying!

Turbo

 

[beechcowboy]

The belief that we can never acheive this "one voice" concept is exactly the reason that it is not happening. American's are greedy me, me, me types. We need to step back and consider what we do at one airline has a huge impact on what happens at others. Believe it or not, every action has a consequence. Prater is a good man, and will be a good leader for ALPA. I hope we can continue to bring everyone under one umbrella so that we can fight off mgmt attempts to whipsaw one of us against another. Nothing in this argument is black and white, but if I were a bettin' type, I would suspect that the fact that Colgan is non-union will eventually be used to try to impact negotiations at PCL. History just has a way of repeating itself. Doesn't mean it is the fault of Colgan pilots. We will just have to see how this plays out, and where you guys stand when the music stops playing. I hope it doesn't happen. I hope you guys aren't used to attempt to undercut PCL, but I'm not hopeful. Stand strong. Nuff said. Good luck with the transition.

 

[Kaman]

I think alot of people are getting the cart before the proverbial horse (myself included, initially) without all the available information. I strongly believe that PCL Holdings Corporation purchased Colgan Air because of it's cheap labor, access to other codeshares and access to other lucrative turboprop flying.
I am also still not seeing the urgency to go running to ALPA like a bunch of Lemmings over a cliff. I am willing to hear what they have to say, but looking at the labor relations that PCL already "enjoys". What can they really do for the Colgan Air pilots that they have been unable to accomplish at PCL? I am also not buying the "join now before it's too late" theory either. Personally, if I see signs of nefarious activity by either ALPA or PCL Holdings then I'll leave. Plain and simple. I'll drive a truck for more $$$ than be involved in a "GO-JETS Mk. II" scenario.
It's really sad that one group of pilots unknown to each other have seemingly been pitted against one another by rumor and innuendo. Mostly taking place on the various internet forums.

 

[Beech Balls]

OK OK OK>>>>
You people really need to cool off about this crap. All will be ok for quite a while. I am quite sure NOTHING is going to change for at least 18 months, and we certainly don't need a union. I hate unions and lawyers....don't get me started.

At Colgan, you get your time and leave. period. Nobody is there to help us out, so we look out for each other. As Phil Trenary says in his letter: Take care of each other". We already do, hence the tight Colgan pilot group.

We have guys going to Airtran, Continental, and Southwest for example, so all is not lost.

Get your job done right...don't complain, and even though the upgrade times are getting stretched a little, it's still better than any other company out there. And we all know that we want a bigger plane and bigger pay and that can't come without Turbine PIC time...and Colgan is the place to get it.

Don't worry boys and girls....it's gonna be just fine, and in my opinion quite a good time in the near future!

 

[TurboAWD]

I am quite sure NOTHING is going to change for at least 18 months

Hmm, I doubt it, but neither of us know...

At Colgan, you get your time and leave. period

Is there some reason you don't think SAAB (or CRJ) drivers deserve a decent income/quality of life? Why should you have to move on do have a decent life?

As Phil Trenary says in his letter: Take care of each other.

Oh my, you are quoting Phil... what flavor kool-aide did you drink while reading that letter?

Turbo