Pinnacle Air Services

[TennLear60]

This is what our management has told us as a certainty. It seems very fair. They told us that it was a condition of sale in the deal.

If they are lying, everyone at JR and Nelson can kiss my ass. I'll be gone like a fart in the wind.

I'm sorry to see that you PA guys seemingly haven't been told anything about what's coming up. It seems they haven't been informing you like the JR guys are us.

Again, though, the JR guys could be lying... but they will pay seriously for that, and I think they know it.

It's all a conspiracy.

 

[starcheckdriver]

Example this last trip hear to ASE from HOU I dutied us on at 9 AM CT flew 2.5 to ASE dutied us off about 45 minutes after block in fax in my paper work and went to the hotel done the only call is to a machine turning in my aircraft times my block in time my duty off time and when I will be leagal, so that dispatch can listen to the message and not bother me while I am in rest. Very seldome do we ever need approval to duty off they don't like the idea of us just sitting around an airport waiting. I guess it is looked at like well the sooner you are off the sooner you can come back on.

The above mentioned way of doing things sux IMHO.....The example you gave makes you legal for duty again around 9:15PM MT. That means you could get called for an all nighter, and if you are like me; you did not sleep during the 10 hours of rest during daylight hours.

In the example mentioned, Jetride would keep us on duty till 7 or 8PM that night and then we would get the 10 hours rest so we could not get called in the middle of the night. Before anyone responds with a smart a$$ remark, I am well aware ASE is a daytime only airport. I am using the above example to cover all siutations.

I can only speak for myself on this one, but hardly ever look forward to Dispatch calling at 12AM or 1AM for an upcoming duty day starting at 2 or 3AM.

 

[Dave J]

why should a company be expected to pay their pilots extra money to do their job.

I think we all would like to see the day pay go away and the money made off of that be added to a straight salery

 

[starcheckdriver]

I know there has been a lot of talk of salaries between the two companies. Just curious....

What does a Pinnacle Lear 60 SIC and PIC make? I spoke to a Pinnacle Lr-60 FO who told me he was salaried at $37,000. I was shocked!

Most Jetride SICs start at $52,000 and get a 3% raise each year. Most Jetride are salaried at $70,000-$72,000 and get 3% raise each year. In fact, here is what is published on the Airnet/Jetride website:

Lear 31/35:

SIC 32,960 - 41,200
PIC 51,500 - 61,800

Lear 60

SIC 41,200 - 61,800
PIC 64,300 - 75,700

Gulfstream III

SIC 76,000 - 85,000
PIC 85,000 - 110,000

 

[Dave J]

The above mentioned way of doing things sux IMHO.....The example you gave makes you legal for duty again around 9:15PM MT. That means you could get called for an all nighter, and if you are like me; you did not sleep during the 10 hours of rest during daylight hours.

In the example mentioned, Jetride would keep us on duty till 7 or 8PM that night and then we would get the 10 hours rest so we could not get called in the middle of the night. Before anyone responds with a smart a$$ remark, I am well aware ASE is a daytime only airport. I am using the above example to cover all siutations.

I can only speak for myself on this one, but hardly ever look forward to Dispatch calling at 12AM or 1AM for an upcoming duty day starting at 2 or 3AM.

I wasn't going to go there with the ASE thing it was understood it was an example. but in as long as I have been here I can't remember that happening except when we had a contract with net jets because we had one plane that did a lot of recovery trips for them but it was only one plane but we don't any more so it just doesn't happen

 

[Dave J]

I know there has been a lot of talk of salaries between the two companies. Just curious....

What does a Pinnacle Lear 60 SIC and PIC make? I spoke to a Pinnacle Lr-60 FO who told me he was salaried at $37,000. I was shocked!

Most Jetride SICs start at $52,000 and get a 3% raise each year. Most Jetride are salaried at $70,000-$72,000 and get 3% raise each year. In fact, here is what is published on the Airnet/Jetride website:

Lear 31/35:

SIC 32,960 - 41,200
PIC 51,500 - 61,800

Lear 60

SIC 41,200 - 61,800
PIC 64,300 - 75,700

Gulfstream III

SIC 76,000 - 85,000
PIC 85,000 - 110,000

The 37000 is correct but that is a base pay and well day pay varies between based pilots and road pilots so since we are speaking of the 60 and all 60 pilots are on the road the FO you spoke with will make 37000 + another 9000 maybe 10000 in day pay because his day pay starts from the day he airlines to the plane and runs until he airlines home this is on the average 15 to 16 days each month there for his yearly pay is 46k to 47k. Same goes for the Capt starting base 66k + 9 to 10 K = 75 to 76 a year. Now the ASG based guys have same base but day pay in varieable and doesn't start until you spend a night out so if you do a one day turn no day pay this $ucks for them yet do a short hop leave monday fly and hour stay the night and return the next day and you get day pay for both days. Leave the next day and the cycle start all over again because you returned to home base. The poor guys could fly every day for a week out and back they would get no day pay because it is based on staying a night so the more consecutive nights away from home the more day pay. I hope this made sence. It is also not based on if you fly or just sit only on being away from home guess that is why it is called day pay and not flight pay

 

[macpilot]

no, just one day.

for the jet ride pilots, Can we be included in the emails and confrence calls.
.

 

[Dave J]

You are correct, you cannot bid for a particular hotel, only the star level and the location. What I normally do is check orbitz for hotels in the area and prices. As a general rule of thumb you should bid 40-50 percent less than the sugested RETAIL price. There are alot of "little things" to using priceline that you need to understand. I no longer work for Pinnacle, but I would be happy to talk with you. PM your phone # and I'll call you.

M you back to child molestations asking for phone #'s on the net. I thought you went and got some help. LOL and no I am not ref starchecker as being a child I am just messing with great lakes cause i am borred and need to get the hell out of here

 

[starcheckdriver]

I agree with MNR on his comments about JR's 14-on/7-off cycle and PA's 14/14 cycle. I was on the 14/7 cycle for about 6 months before going to the 8/6 reserve schedule. I was home about 16-18 days a month on the 14/7 cycle. That's because a lot of the trips were day trips and a lot of days entailed being on-call in my house.

If I am on-call and not flying, I would much rather do that in my house than a hotel room. But, I can see the trade-off for the 14/14 because I think that would mean that I can live wherever I want. Is this how it works at PA right now?

Just some more communication to put out for the PA guys....We were told in a conference call that the business plan is to put most, if not all aircraft on the basing system that JR currently has. This means they try to bring the aircraft back to base after every trip and that the pilots assigned to that aircraft have to live in base. With this setup, a 14/7 makes sense since it allows for an easy 3-pilot rotation on the plane and you are home more.

Whether they use that system after the deal closes is for all to see....

 

[AirplanesSuck]

MacPilot,

Ask Debbie Hutton (I think that's her name). She's on a lot of the calls lately. I don't see why you guys couldn't get on board here. A lot of it has been JR-specific, and the "two-companies-together" stuff has been a little more vague. But, still better than nothing. Or, I don't know why Wynn Peterson (the new boss above DO's for ALL of us) couldn't have a Pinnacle Pilot conference call. If you guys wanna do it, start shakin' the tree.

 

[Dave J]

I agree with MNR on his comments about JR's 14-on/7-off cycle and PA's 14/14 cycle. I was on the 14/7 cycle for about 6 months before going to the 8/6 reserve schedule. I was home about 16-18 days a month on the 14/7 cycle. That's because a lot of the trips were day trips and a lot of days entailed being on-call in my house.

If I am on-call and not flying, I would much rather do that in my house than a hotel room. But, I can see the trade-off for the 14/14 because I think that would mean that I can live wherever I want. Is this how it works at PA right now?

Just some more communication to put out for the PA guys....We were told in a conference call that the business plan is to put most, if not all aircraft on the basing system that JR currently has. This means they try to bring the aircraft back to base after every trip and that the pilots assigned to that aircraft have to live in base. With this setup, a 14/7 makes sense since it allows for an easy 3-pilot rotation on the plane and you are home more.

Whether they use that system after the deal closes is for all to see....

Yes those of us on the road live where we want we are scatterd all over the county, so a switch to the 14/7 causes a problum for us it also would cost us money with are day pay which at this point is a garuntee of 750 to 800 a month we would loose a portion of this because of the out and back without staying the night or just sitting at home on call I would not be makeing that money that I have been makeing for a long time along. Most of the people on the road are senior in the company so a lot of us could walk if it is just a switch with out something to compensate for the loss of money and time off. Along with a move that the company won't pay for or at least in the past have not helped in moving expenses.
I do need to say this to the PA guys even more the guys on the road don't freakout feeling you are going to get screwed there are going to be some changes but I think we are going to be okay and happy with the out come. We are just going to have to wait to see what it is and I don't know how long that will be. Before you start calling and emailing me because I have a crystal ball I don't know anything spacific so I can not tell you anything other then to just hang tight.

 

[Rake]

Your omnipotent ball needs spell check!

 

[Dave J]

Your omnipotent ball needs spell check!

Yea i know thought about it getting lazy in my old age. Careful before you end up back out with your buddy LOL
So this is just for you B. LOL See if I ever fly over another nudist colony for you though LOL

Yes those of us on the road live where we want we are scattered all over the county, so a switch to the 14/7 causes a problem for us it also would cost us money with are day pay which at this point is a guarantee of 750 to 800 a month we would loose a portion of this because of the out and back without staying the night or just sitting at home on call I would not be making that money that I have been making for a long time along. Most of the people on the road are senior in the company so a lot of us could walk if it is just a switch with out something to compensate for the loss of money and time off. Along with a move that the company won't pay for or at least in the past have not helped in moving expenses.
I do need to say this to the PA guys even more the guys on the road don't freak out feeling you are going to get screwed there are going to be some changes but I think we are going to be okay and happy with the out come. We are just going to have to wait to see what it is and I don't know how long that will be. Before you start calling and emailing me because I have a crystal ball I don't know anything specific so I can not tell you anything other then to just hang tight.

 

[AirplanesSuck]

Ol' spellcheckers still don't catch the "loose" vs. "lose." It'll get ya every time.

60% of the time, it works every time!

 

[Dave J]

True true......... guess that is why I just don't worry about it. If it can't be figured out ohh well. I usually never have anything important to say anyway. lol.

 

[Rake]

No worries! Looks better. I'll shut up and get back to coloring!

 

[75TH_RANGER]

how are things rake? lovin life without capt. america

 

[TennLear60]

I like to wear my custom Captain Caveman Cape when I fly. I make my F.O.'s wear the Scrappy Doo Coller when they fly with me. Next month I'm gonna change attire to the Captain Underpants uniform.

 

[osy007]

are we gonna get PA's day pay also?

I think that some how, wynn is going to keep the pay system are screwed up between the two certificates.

The extra $50 bucks sounds like a good thing for the PA guys.

But what about us JR guys?

Im new to this thread, and haven't read em all but I have the feeling that we are going to get shorted on the day pay. The hotel thing sucks also. just my opinion. I'll get used to new system, no choice in the matter anyways.

If we were paid the $50 extra day + per diem then I wouldn't have tp worry about searching for the cheapest hotel. Does anyone from Jetride know this one? BTW #8 seniority JR......soon to be 15...whoo peee.

BTW..CJJ YOUR FIRED!!!! MOFO

 

[TennLear60]

BTW #8 seniority JR......soon to be 15...whoo peee.

Better than #80. #5 soon to be # 10. It's better than any seniority merge I have ever heard of. 1:1 sure beats 1:5.

 

[starcheckdriver]

If we were paid the $50 extra day + per diem then I wouldn't have tp worry about searching for the cheapest hotel. Does anyone from Jetride know this one? BTW #8 seniority JR......soon to be 15...whoo peee.

The rumor at JR is that we will not be paid the $50 day pay. The other rumor is that the day pay for the Pinnacle guys will go away as soon as they get their rumored raises to match the JR salaries. I don't know if any of this is true.

 

[MNR]

It would make sense to match up the saleries if they are going to go to the JR model. If you were used to getting that 15 x $50 every rotation and then went to the JR model and were now sitting in a base on call instead and not collecting the $50 a day I would want some kind of boost in salery or I could see Pinnacle pilots jumping ship.

Wynn is a good manager. I am really happy to see him put in charge of the whole operation. If how they have gone back and forth on the hotel/per diem thing with the Jetride pilots (taking our input, making modifications, etc.) is any indication none of us have much to be really worried about. His track record over the last year indicate the same to me. If they make you move my guess is they will pay for a portion or all of it. If they get rid of day pay my guess is they will adjust saleries in some other way. I know Wynn and the other management at Jetride realize we are front line customer reps in a very service oriented industry. Keep your pilots happy or that suffers. I'm not talking about deliberate sabotage btw, just pilots being willing to go above and beyond what is required or necessary.

I am sure there are going to be changes on both sides. I think in the long run a majority of us will see most of it as good changes.

BTW, I talked to our DO today and mentioned all of you at Pinnacle were starved for information. He said they were aware of it to a certain extent but there wasen't alot him or even Wynn could do until the deal was final. Basicly saying if something they said went againist PA ops specs there could be probelms with operation control and the FAA etc. He did however say he would see about trying to get something out to someone with some information for all of you. Honestly he wasen't sure if there was even some kind of e-mail list to distribute anything like that. Things are close to being finalized anyways. So if you all don't get anything beforehand maybe once things are finalized they will do another conference call where all of us can call in. I did push it up the ladder however.

 

[Downwind]

The lack of communication isn't due to there not being an email list. We have a phone list for all PA staff with cell, home, and email. Mine sits 8 inches to the right of my monitor.

A lot of this sucks. Some might get better. The lack of ANY information from PA is not very reassuring. PA didn't stand up for their people in regard to the senority list. I don't really see why they would go to bat for us in any other regard.

The 1:1 senority list is true. The most senior guy at PA is a JR guy. How F'd up is that? This is an absolute load of crap that is sure to do NO good for PA morale. I cannot believe we were sold down the river like that. But, I am told by a good source that our DO and CP had nothing to do with it. And are no more pleased then the rest of us.

PA management was worried that some 20-30% of JR guys would leave following the BUYOUT. They need to be worried about 50% of their own voting with their feet.

Who bought who on this deal? It seems we can't even get a buyout accomplished correctly.

Nothing against JR crews. You guys had no more input in this than we did. Just quit b'ing about the per diem. Trust us. It works.

 

[75TH_RANGER]

wisely spoken words downwind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JJET44]

Starchecker, I just got a price on a room in PBI the Holiday Inn airport Conf center it is withing 2 miles of the airport it is a nice hotel for 85.00 and I am sure that if there is nothing special going on in the area I could either get the same Marriott you are in or any of the hotels you speak of for 60-70 if I just price line bid the hotel. We stay in the same hotels you all stay in just you all pay full price. I was just in the Marriott at HOU taxes and all for 68 the best rate the FBO had was 100 + taxes and it was the courtyard. If I would have went straight to the hotel the room would have been 140 plus tax. I was in the Hyatt in LA with bell hopes and all and paid something like 80 bucks last month.

Thank you Dave J.

A few pages back I mentioned that us JR pilots must be missing something and Dave J. addressed it.

My only question to you is do you book day-by-day?
Lets say your in ORL and the company tells you that your staying for 2 nights. Do you book on a day-by-day basis or do you book the 2 nights in advance?
If its day-by-day and you priceline it, isn't there a great chance of having to switch hotels in the middle of your stay due to the fact that you don't have a choice of were you stay?

Just wondering how you guys make it work!!

 

[fcskm]

Hay Guys,

I'm looking at applying at JR and wondering are they still hiring. I just found this thead and it looks like PA is Buying out JR. Any info on applying would help me out.

Thanks

 

[AirplanesSuck]

The lack of communication isn't due to there not being an email list. We have a phone list for all PA staff with cell, home, and email. Mine sits 8 inches to the right of my monitor.

A lot of this sucks. Some might get better. The lack of ANY information from PA is not very reassuring. PA didn't stand up for their people in regard to the senority list. I don't really see why they would go to bat for us in any other regard.

The 1:1 senority list is true. The most senior guy at PA is a JR guy. How F'd up is that? This is an absolute load of crap that is sure to do NO good for PA morale. I cannot believe we were sold down the river like that. But, I am told by a good source that our DO and CP had nothing to do with it. And are no more pleased then the rest of us.

PA management was worried that some 20-30% of JR guys would leave following the BUYOUT. They need to be worried about 50% of their own voting with their feet.

Who bought who on this deal? It seems we can't even get a buyout accomplished correctly.

Nothing against JR crews. You guys had no more input in this than we did. Just quit b'ing about the per diem. Trust us. It works.

Well, if we have to trust you on per diem, you trust us on Wynn. He's going to be Nelson and Hunnicutt's direct boss soon, and he is a first-class manager. I can tell you he already cares about you PA guys just as much as he does us. Maybe you're concerned about your current management, but Wynn will be in charge of both companies soon, and he cares about making pilots happy as much as he can.

On the issue of the seniority list and buyout: try stepping outside your point-of-view for a moment.

First, many Jetride pilots have been flying with Jetride and Airnet for longer than Pinnacle has been in operation. Many have been with the Airnet parent company for nearly a decade. Now, imagine the experience and loyalty of these people. Now, imagine you're them, and you get tacked 50 or so seniority numbers below people who've been with PA for 1 year. You're gone. They knew this was going to happen, so they made it a condition of sale.

Second, YOU personally didn't buy Jetride... the rich people who own PA did. Quit acting as if you're owed something. They could have gone by DOH, but you guys would have been screwed, and that wouldn't be fair, either.

Third, 50%? Is it possible that 50% of PA would walk over this seniority list? Sounds like hyperbole to me.... In real terms, no one's relative rank is really changing because the fleet size just doubled with the number of pilots (except for some Airnet/Jetride guys who moved up or down).

Lastly, we'll quit b'ing about per diem when you quit b'ing about seniority. You didn't get "sold up the river" nearly as bad as you could have.

All of us are apprehensive about this thing right now, and all a bit uneasy, but I think what they're doing is fair, and in the interest of the company's future AND the comfort of ALL the pilots.

 

[Dave J]

Thank you Dave J.

A few pages back I mentioned that us JR pilots must be missing something and Dave J. addressed it.

My only question to you is do you book day-by-day?
Lets say your in ORL and the company tells you that your staying for 2 nights. Do you book on a day-by-day basis or do you book the 2 nights in advance?
If its day-by-day and you priceline it, isn't there a great chance of having to switch hotels in the middle of your stay due to the fact that you don't have a choice of were you stay?

Just wondering how you guys make it work!!

Yes you do have to do it day by day and you could end up haveing to change hotels this can sometimes be a pain in the Assssss. Often though you can go and log back in and get the same rate at the same hotel each morning. but if the company calls you back out after you are in your hotel and paid for they now pick up the hotel at next destination.

 

[Downwind]

Well, if we have to trust you on per diem, you trust us on Wynn. He's going to be Nelson and Hunnicutt's direct boss soon, and he is a first-class manager. I can tell you he already cares about you PA guys just as much as he does us. Maybe you're concerned about your current management, but Wynn will be in charge of both companies soon, and he cares about making pilots happy as much as he can.

I have heard nothing except good about Wynn. Let's hope half of what you all say is true.

On the issue of the seniority list and buyout: try stepping outside your point-of-view for a moment.

First, many Jetride pilots have been flying with Jetride and Airnet for longer than Pinnacle has been in operation. Many have been with the Airnet parent company for nearly a decade. Now, imagine the experience and loyalty of these people. Now, imagine you're them, and you get tacked 50 or so seniority numbers below people who've been with PA for 1 year. You're gone. They knew this was going to happen, so they made it a condition of sale.

Well, I hate to tell you this but JR doesn't, or won't soon, exist anymore. You, the airplanes, and accompanying staff now belong to PA. What was your date of hire with PA? Sept 1 or somewhere around there. Again, this was not a MERGER, this was a lot, stock, and barrel BUYOUT. Your date of hire with Airnet or JR has no bearing on your employment with PA. Your unifrom will be PA, your paycheck will be PA, your airplane will soon be in PA colors, and your senority should come with DOH from PA. Just like the rest of us.

Second, YOU personally didn't buy Jetride... the rich people who own PA did. Quit acting as if you're owed something. They could have gone by DOH, but you guys would have been screwed, and that wouldn't be fair, either.

I am fully aware of my financial capabilities vs. the Pinnacle 4. Owed something? I am owed my pay for days worked. I am also owed my senority number with this company. Reverse the table. PA is in financial trouble. JR buys us. They stick PA guys ahead of JR. Are you laughing now? Again this was not a merger. This wasn't a meeting of two minds. This was a buyout. JR is bye-bye. Assets now belong to PA. And again, we are glad to have you guys here, but your DOH with a now defunct company should have no bearing here.

Third, 50%? Is it possible that 50% of PA would walk over this seniority list? Sounds like hyperbole to me.... In real terms, no one's relative rank is really changing because the fleet size just doubled with the number of pilots (except for some Airnet/Jetride guys who moved up or down).

50% of our 45 guys just walked last week. I don't have definate numbers or anything to bet on in Vegas. Just grumblings and disappointment from the guys that I do talk to. Hell, they may all stay. They may all go too.

Lastly, we'll quit b'ing about per diem when you quit b'ing about seniority. You didn't get "sold up the river" nearly as bad as you could have.

PA guys were NOT taking care of on this. You guys were. Thats good for you and speaks well for Wynn. Maybe now that we are on his team he can do something for us all.

And how much worse could it be? We're successful and doing well. We treat our customers right and get things done (I'm sure you guys do too). We prosper and make money. We buy a company that had to borrow too much and needs out. We place their people ahead of ours?

All of us are apprehensive about this thing right now, and all a bit uneasy, but I think what they're doing is fair, and in the interest of the company's future AND the comfort of ALL the pilots.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this being fair.

 

[fcskm]

Need help
Looking for info on were to send my resume for Pinnacle and what are the qualifications.

Thanks