Pilots in the job market--

[FLYLOW22]

Nice rhetoric, but virtually meaningless. Netjets operates in a niche market with no pricing power. The middleman has to stay in business for you to have a job. Your job is much closer to the airline model than the corporate one. You produce required revenue for your company to stay in business, we don't. You have a very expensive operating model which has not yet shown that it can be profitable. You man at four to five pilots per airframe, where corporate mans at three pilots or less. Up to 50% of your flying can be deadhead and therefore non productive. Average aircraft usage for corporate is about 450 hours per year; with your card programs you can fly each airplane over 1200 hours a year thereby decreasing the value of the owners asset at a much accelerated rate.

You are also apparently alleging that Bershire Hathaway is falsifying their Security and Exchange Commission filings, in which case you're lost anyways as your senior leadership will be going to Club Fed.

You know it all dude. I wouldn't possibly dreamof debating you even though you are in error You are still entitled to your position even though you are commenting on something that you have only viewed from the outside.

Wait... no I will debate you. No pricing power? Well... I'd say that NJA is the pricing driver for the frax. When our pay went up, those companies who could afford to ante up did. Those who did not follow suit... well, the writing may just be on the wall.

Airlines derive their revenue from getting an assload of asses from a to b in the shortest time possible. The airplanes that operate are for the most part leased up the ying yang and make money when the airplane has the gear up and the rig is airborne. Revenue is what comes from primarily selling tickets. Profits is what happens only rarely with 121 when the groundhog sees his shadow and does a backflip, triple gainer back into his hole. The airlines have a very high cost, highly competetive environment to operate in where the pax can immediately go to brand Y if they don't like Brand X.

NJA makes money from the sale, the operation of and the disposal of it's managed airplanes. NJA is a middleman. BKH buys 100 frames and NJA sells those frames in fractions to any who want them. The planes make money whether they fly or not. Frax have tremendous control over pricing as they can charge additional fees for taxes, fees, fuel, etc as they occur. IT IS THE MOST AWESOME AND ENVIABLE BUSINESS PLAN ON THE PLANET. We don't make much revenue for the company as you suggest. Most of NJA revenue comes from sales. Some comes from operations and some comes from disposals.

Corporate flight department flying is completely NOT comparable to frax. Your company can pay you whatever they feel like paying based on company earnings. NJA pays us what we negotiate for based on what we demand based on what we calculate the company can afford based on what they charge owners minus 96% of revenue for them to do their thing as managers.

We have more pilots per plane becasue our planes fly around the clock everyday, all the time as compared to yours which travels delicately between the hamptons and aspen 3 times a year. We have a 14 hour duty limit which means that several times one crew will hand off the rig to another and then go into rest upon which time at rest expiration they will meet another crew and pick up their rig. These planes fly a 24 hour operation and hence we need more pilots... you follow Iceman? Godd. Cause yur dangerous.

Let's see... next ass blowing point... oh yeah... 50% of flights are deadheads. The cost of those deadheads is built into the pricing... but then again, we have no control over pricing do we. Ummm.... ok. By the way, did you mean 50% of the segments regardless of whether I flew BED-SFO and positioned to SJC or are you saying 50% of total hobbes time, NM travelled, timezones crossed? What units here bubba?

Depreciating assets? I dunno. That's a question for NJA Sales. You can reach them for comment by dialing 614.239.5500. Enjoy. We can't seem to keep up with sames at all from what I am hearing. This is one reason why airframes are getting the crap flown out of them. I know, I know. It sucks to be sucessful.

Club Fed? I don't know anything about that place. I'm a regular blue collar guy and proud of it. Don't do much golfing. Pool and darts, now there ya go!

Anything else you'd enjoy blowing out of your ass tonight friend?

 

[Diesel]

just picked up a x tonight. It had been running non stop for the last 3 days. 4 crews and 3 days. Tonight is the longest the plane has sat. No deadheads for me tomorrow. Just another coast to coast.

I think the X will enjoy the time off it has tonight. Tomorrow it has another long day followed by a handoff to another crew which will run it for another 14 hours.

 

[GVFlyer]

You know it all dude. I wouldn't possibly dreamof debating you even though you are in error You are still entitled to your position even though you are commenting on something that you have only viewed from the outside.

Wait... no I will debate you. No pricing power? Well... I'd say that NJA is the pricing driver for the frax. When our pay went up, those companies who could afford to ante up did. Those who did not follow suit... well, the writing may just be on the wall.

Airlines derive their revenue from getting an assload of asses from a to b in the shortest time possible. The airplanes that operate are for the most part leased up the ying yang and make money when the airplane has the gear up and the rig is airborne. Revenue is what comes from primarily selling tickets. Profits is what happens only rarely with 121 when the groundhog sees his shadow and does a backflip, triple gainer back into his hole. The airlines have a very high cost, highly competetive environment to operate in where the pax can immediately go to brand Y if they don't like Brand X.

NJA makes money from the sale, the operation of and the disposal of it's managed airplanes. NJA is a middleman. BKH buys 100 frames and NJA sells those frames in fractions to any who want them. The planes make money whether they fly or not. Frax have tremendous control over pricing as they can charge additional fees for taxes, fees, fuel, etc as they occur. IT IS THE MOST AWESOME AND ENVIABLE BUSINESS PLAN ON THE PLANET. We don't make much revenue for the company as you suggest. Most of NJA revenue comes from sales. Some comes from operations and some comes from disposals.

Corporate flight department flying is completely NOT comparable to frax. Your company can pay you whatever they feel like paying based on company earnings. NJA pays us what we negotiate for based on what we demand based on what we calculate the company can afford based on what they charge owners minus 96% of revenue for them to do their thing as managers.

We have more pilots per plane becasue our planes fly around the clock everyday, all the time as compared to yours which travels delicately between the hamptons and aspen 3 times a year. We have a 14 hour duty limit which means that several times one crew will hand off the rig to another and then go into rest upon which time at rest expiration they will meet another crew and pick up their rig. These planes fly a 24 hour operation and hence we need more pilots... you follow Iceman? Godd. Cause yur dangerous.

Let's see... next ass blowing point... oh yeah... 50% of flights are deadheads. The cost of those deadheads is built into the pricing... but then again, we have no control over pricing do we. Ummm.... ok. By the way, did you mean 50% of the segments regardless of whether I flew BED-SFO and positioned to SJC or are you saying 50% of total hobbes time, NM travelled, timezones crossed? What units here bubba?

Depreciating assets? I dunno. That's a question for NJA Sales. You can reach them for comment by dialing 614.239.5500. Enjoy. We can't seem to keep up with sames at all from what I am hearing. This is one reason why airframes are getting the crap flown out of them. I know, I know. It sucks to be sucessful.

Club Fed? I don't know anything about that place. I'm a regular blue collar guy and proud of it. Don't do much golfing. Pool and darts, now there ya go!

Anything else you'd enjoy blowing out of your ass tonight friend?

When GlobalExcuseDriver refers to pricing power he is referencing an economic term concerning the "Price Elasticity of Demand." He is suggesting that in your case, price is inelastic and you cannot set the price of goods and services among your competitors, e.g. Flight Options and FlexJet. Flex, by the way, appears to be aggressively lowering prices while their parent company, Bombardier, develops point designed aircraft for the fractional industry such as the CL 300.

The "Club Fed" to which he refers are Federal minimum security prisons such as Eglin Federal Prison Camp and it's twin at Maxwell AFB, where wealthy white collar criminals are sent to do their time.

GV

 

[SafetyTheSeat]

Wish I could cut and paste it. Entitled "Unions are Detrimental to Fractional Industry", and one of the most lucid interpretations of the conditions in todays ever-changing business aviation environment, it is a must read!

Sam Kephart, BRAVO! Well said, and timely!

Yep I read it....... It's called:

F.U.D.

 

[netjetwife]

The gall of those pilots! Wanting to be treated as professionals?! Amazing isn't it, that the FOs think they should be able to support a family without government assistance or having to work two jobs? What made those greedy NJ pilots think the company could pay them fairly, anyway? Could it be the fact that all along NJA had been charging the owners for the pay raise that they resisted handing over? Not profitable? What a joke! NJA profits made it possible to fund other Netjets....like NJE...for example. The holiday party sounded rather lavish, according to a few pilots who attended. Doesn't sound as though they're worried about costs. Why should they be? NJA is still getting away with underpaying FOs. The pilots gave them a 5 year contract---MORE than fair!

 

[FLYLOW22]

When GlobalExcuseDriver refers to pricing power he is referencing an economic term concerning the "Price Elasticity of Demand." He is suggesting that in your case, price is inelastic and you cannot set the price of goods and services among your competitors, e.g. Flight Options and FlexJet. Flex, by the way, appears to be aggressively lowering prices while their parent company, Bombardier, develops point designed aircraft for the fractional industry such as the CL 300.

You are asking a guy who flies the rig around about the numbers game that NJA invented? Not my debate. What I do see here at NJA is that none of the gripes from "management" here is ever about lack of money (except during negotiations). I don't think that management cares, frankly, what the competition is charging. For the most part they don't care about the competition as they are not considered true competitors (not my words... theirs). NJAs plate is full taking care of existing clients and making room for as many more as they can handle... seems like something is working ok. Revenue is adjusted every 5 years for NJA asd contracts come due. Again, I don't see much energy being spent on looking at the other guys. I do think that NJA would see repayment of money invested with manufacturers on planes that are built for frax flying. That is just my opinion though and doesn't rank next to our CEOs ego.

The "Club Fed" to which he refers are Federal minimum security prisons such as Eglin Federal Prison Camp and it's twin at Maxwell AFB, where wealthy white collar criminals are sent to do their time.

GV

Never spent much time in a Turkish Prison.

 

[SkyGirl]

Nice rhetoric, but virtually meaningless. Netjets operates in a niche market with no pricing power. The middleman has to stay in business for you to have a job. Your job is much closer to the airline model than the corporate one. You produce required revenue for your company to stay in business, we don't. You have a very expensive operating model which has not yet shown that it can be profitable. You man at four to five pilots per airframe, where corporate mans at three pilots or less. Up to 50% of your flying can be deadhead and therefore non productive. Average aircraft usage for corporate is about 450 hours per year; with your card programs you can fly each airplane over 1200 hours a year thereby decreasing the value of the owners asset at a much accelerated rate.

You are also apparently alleging that Bershire Hathaway is falsifying their Security and Exchange Commission filings, in which case you're lost anyways as your senior leadership will be going to Club Fed.

It may be a dumb question, but if 200 hours is a quarter share, then 800 hours must be a full share or 100% aircraft utilization. Where do the additional 400 hours come from?

_SkyGirl_

 

[FLYLOW22]

It may be a dumb question, but if 200 hours is a quarter share, then 800 hours must be a full share or 100% aircraft utilization. Where do the additional 400 hours come from?

_SkyGirl_

Creative financing.

 

[WheresRocky]

More URFM

The gall of those pilots! Wanting to be treated as professionals?! Amazing isn't it, that the FOs think they should be able to support a family without government assistance or having to work two jobs? What made those greedy NJ pilots think the company could pay them fairly, anyway? Could it be the fact that all along NJA had been charging the owners for the pay raise that they resisted handing over? Not profitable? What a joke! NJA profits made it possible to fund other Netjets....like NJE...for example. The holiday party sounded rather lavish, according to a few pilots who attended. Doesn't sound as though they're worried about costs. Why should they be? NJA is still getting away with underpaying FOs. The pilots gave them a 5 year contract---MORE than fair!

More RUFM diatribe from ALLAnetjetwife.

Don't know what RUFM is: newly coined phrase by one of your own...

FLYLOW22 said:

We like to call it the URFM pal!

Come to the dark side. Make more money. Secure a schedule and a lifestyle that will allow you to enjoy time off with loved ones. Help us rape and pillage the ability for big business to sew and stitch their golden parachutes. Help us turn the CEOs 5th house in Aspen into W2 earnings for you and your peers.

Yes we are terrorists... to some who pay the bills and had their chance to abuse hard-working laborers.
__________________

Unionistic radical fundamentalism at work. RUFM up, Netjetwife!

 

[miles otoole]

I don't think that management cares, frankly, what the competition is charging. For the most part they don't care about the competition as they are not considered true competitors (not my words... theirs). NJAs plate is full taking care of existing clients and making room for as many more as they can handle... seems like something is working ok. Again, I don't see much energy being spent on looking at the other guys.

A big ego, indeed. From a pure competitive standpoint, you had better hope management and sales are losing sleep looking at the other guys. Just looking at aircraft, unless your prospects don't care about what aircraft they purchase, the landscape is VERY competitive across the industry.
CJ3 vs. LR40XR vs. 400XP
Sovereign vs. CL300 vs. G200 vs. CX
DA2000 vs. DA2000EX vs. CL604
With the large jets being a draw, it seems to me that NJA clearly doesn't have a superior competitive aircraft, some in fact inferior by many standards. I sure hope your service is far superior.
I personally would be a bit nervous if my management team told me they don't even consider the competition. Heck, Michael Dell is famous for worrying about his companies competiton-and look at the market share they command. I can't imagine him telling his team that he doesn't even consider the competition. A huge ego upstairs, indeed. That alone would make me nervous.