Pilots in the job market--

[netjetwife]

"NJWife,
You hit the nail on the head with that statement. The problem being
that there are enough desperate pilots out there and there are going to
be a lot more, especially if DAL goes under. That will add roughly
6,000 plus pilots to an already saturated job market. Not all will
continue to fly, but some will. These are the same guys who would not take a pay cut to save their own jobs." Spyguy

It seems to me that the ones who wouldn't take a pay cut know the value of their skill and the contribution they made to the company. I can't imagine them lining up for a job that pays less than some FAs make. Nor can I see pilots that have been accustomed to having union representation choose to "go it alone". If they have to start over, it's my guess that they'll see NJA as the "lesser of the evils" due to the union. In spite of the airline problems, doesn't business aviation continue to grow?

I should think pilots would be heartily sick of management teams that hang onto their lavish salaries while demanding cuts from the work force. Instead of addressing the real problems, too often the managers take the easy way out and blame the workers. Clearly there are some serious issues in aviation that need addressed. Perhaps the managers should apply themselves instead of constantly expecting the pilots to bail them out? The NJ pilots kept insisting that their wages were a cost of doing business that management had to deal with. That's their job. Other frac pilots should continue to say the same thing. When you stand together and yell loud enough, they are forced to listen. Good Luck!
NJW

 

[Jetz]

Did anyone read the AIN editorial?

Wish I could cut and paste it. Entitled "Unions are Detrimental to Fractional Industry", and one of the most lucid interpretations of the conditions in todays ever-changing business aviation environment, it is a must read!

Sam Kephart, BRAVO! Well said, and timely!

 

[Hawkxp]

This is my first Reply But the Delta Pilots are right on

First,we cannot let management continue to run companies into the ground and ruin a respectable career. There gross negligence has caused this problem they are now faced with. Pilots, Flight Attendants, and Maintenance are expected to bare the burden for there mistakes including loss of pension and lifestyle. I hope Delta goes out of business, not because I want to see unemployment in this company but because I want to show management that we as pilots are not going to take this anymore. If they go out of business the law of economics will take over and another company will come in to fill the void. Perhaps a better run company. Survival of the fittest. The pilots that will be furloughed may retire or may join Net jets but the bottom line is that many will fill in the gaping void left by a DEFUNCT Delta. Personally, I am so mad at United, for taking so much from the employees that I have boycotted them. I want them to go out of business because I think it can be done better. Employees deserve better. In my opinion the management at these companies could all be replaced and the industry would be better for it.

 

[netjetwife]

Excellent post, Hawkxp!

We all know the high degree to which pilots are held accountable. Why do the "top dogs" get off so easily? When things go wrong, they take their golden parachutes and move on, leaving a string of broken promises behind them. Management clamors for cuts from the rank and file, with dire warnings of the company going under, while they scramble to protect their own salaries, benefits and pensions from the ax they swing wildly about them. Adding insult to injury, they hold out their hands for huge bonuses for installing cost-cutting measures.

We saw it happen at AA when my husband was laid off right after 9-11. Management was calling for cuts and wage concessions before the dust had even settled--literally! My husband was of the strong opinion that it was all an excuse to reorganize and fly the regionals more. Knowing how underpaid those pilots are, who can doubt his theory?

 

[Hogprint]

Wish I could cut and paste it. Entitled "Unions are Detrimental to Fractional Industry", and one of the most lucid interpretations of the conditions in todays ever-changing business aviation environment, it is a must read!

Sam Kephart, BRAVO! Well said, and timely!

What were some of the highlights of the editorial?

Unions detrimental to the industry....I know of at least 2000 NJA pilots that would probably take issue with that.

 

[Semore Butts]

Already been on the company site

HEy Hog, I think it was already on the company site.

Some dip weeny ceo talking a bunch of crap about his having flown a million hours and blah blah blah.

MAybe it was even here that I saw it.

 

[FLYLOW22]

What were some of the highlights of the editorial?

Unions detrimental to the industry....I know of at least 2000 NJA pilots that would probably take issue with that.

2,348 NJA pilots think that a STRONG UNION has proven very UNdetrimental to their lives. I bet a few FLEX, FO and CS guys might even agree. Can 99% of the industry be wrong?

 

[netjetwife]

Yes, the article had been posted on the NJ board. Semore paraphrased it very well.

When you add in their family members, that's a lot of lives that have been impacted in a positive way!
Let's not forget that once the momentum is under way, change becomes easier.

A RISING TIDE SHOULD LIFT ALL BOATS

Paddling, however, is required. Man the oars! Or cards........in this case.

 

[Spyguy]

THIS SITE IS PISSING ME OFF!!! THIS IS THE SECOND TIME IN THREE DAYS THAT I HAVE WRITTEN A GOOD REPLY THAT HAS TAKEN MORE THAN FIVE MINUTES TO WRITE AND THE DARN SITE LOGS ME OFF. I LOG BACK ON AND MY POST DOESN'T APPEAR.
Has anyone else been having these problems?? I would love to reply but I am not going to write that message again.

 

[Spyguy]

ok the short, short version...do you..yes...do you?...yes...

I'll copy and paste this time. Who hasn't taken a pay cut since 9/11 or for that matter ever to my knowledge? Management and union management. Funny how that works out. It all boils down to everyone looking after their own.
I always love when you have another pilot who doesn't work for the company, grand stands and makes BOLD proclamations that the pilots ought to strike. They do so for solely personal and greedy reasons. You want the DALPA guys to strike to better your stance and working arrangements. Who cares if they have to get another job, just more numbers below me, so I don't get laid off if my company goes to the crapper.
ALPA is and has been one of the worst unions in the history of this nation, for all concerned. I can't speak for other majors, but Delta's management has been worse. There use to be a joke...what do Ron Allen and Lee Iacoko (misspelled I'm sure) have in common? They both turned their companies completely around in five years. I am not even going to touch Leo Mullins.
That being said what 1108 has achieved thus far has been great for all parties it seems. I hope it stays that way. I am very wary of the Teamsters and all that they represent though.
I use to laugh and laugh over the DAPLA's arguement that pilots should be paid like CEO's because each one could have been a CEO of their own company. That was a great one. Pilots aren't management, but that being said the company would not exist without the pilots AND all the other workers. A common ground must be found. It should be interesting to see how everything plays out. In the post 9/11 world the days of pilots getting 200,000 to 300,000 are gone. So should the 40 million in options that CEO's get. CEO's pay should be tied to the performance of the company. But that will never happen.


Make sure you copy and past if you take more than five minutes for a thoughtful reply. It will erase all that you type.