Pilots detained in Brazil

[handlesaregay]

Then I might suggest being more careful in a "3rd world".

Note to self: If ever involved in mishap overseas leave country ASAP.

 

[AngelKing]

You got that right.

AK:beer:

 

[geojet707]

I'm not saying nothing should happen. But how comfortable are you letting a 3rd world justice system make that decision?

I don't know many third world countries that have developed one of the world's best selling regional aircraft. I would venture to say that their justice system is just as developed as their industrial system. Just my .02....

 

[Princedietrich]

Well, accident or intentional, I think anything and everything is going to be nothing more than speculation until the CVR and ATC recordings along with the radar dump are scrutinized. I would imagine that some of this is already in progress.

 

[NuGuy]

Mmmm, 3rd world justice system.......that could hurt, kinda like in midnight express.

Very true. In many spots, SOP is to throw everyone in jail regardless of fault. Those with political connections and/or large $$$ will eventually be found "innocent", while those without either are in for a long stay in the South American pokey.

While I agree that Brasil has some rather nice manufacturing capability, isn't this also the country where the authorities have lost all control of the jails, and it's pretty much the convicts running things and coodinating riots across the country on cell phones?

Nu

 

[A Squared]

I don't know many third world countries that have developed one of the world's best selling regional aircraft. I would venture to say that their justice system is just as developed as their industrial system. Just my .02....

And you would be wrong. I've lived in brazil for over a year. I loved my stay there and the people were great, but it's a seriously messed up country. Embraer is a lone bright spot. Industrially, governmentally and socially the country has some profound problems. The idea that a country would have a first class justice system, merely because they happen to be able to build some decent airplanes is a stretch.

 

[Axel]

In order of preference:

1) Get out of the country

2) Die trying

3) No more options

A couple of gringos will get eaten alive if they end up imprisoned there.

 

[NuGuy]

In order of preference:

1) Get out of the country

2) Die trying

3) No more options

A couple of gringos will get eaten alive if they end up imprisoned there.

Agreed. Anything south of the border makes any federal, state or local pound me in the a$$ prison in the US look like a night at the Weston.

Nu

 

[crash-proof]

One Word: Elections

One thing to consider is that IF these pilots are found guilty this will make major headlines Stateside, and I'm not so sure Lula wants a diplomatic mess to deal with this during elections. I don't think they'd get thrown in jail, rather, Excellaire will get sued like hell for the 155 deaths. Just a guess.

NTSB and Boeing are also heavily involved in the investigation, this isn't being handled solely by the brazilians.

But I agree, jailtime doesn't sound like a fun way to spend your days in Brazil.

 

[dseagrav]

Agreed. Anything south of the border makes any federal, state or local pound me in the a$$ prison in the US look like a night at the Weston.
Nu

Yeah, isn't it amazing how everyone treats your citizens like ******************** when your government is one of the most unpopular governments in the world?

 

[cezzna]

I predict fair and humane treatment. Anything less and Embraer orders will disappear faster than airline profits.

 

[Swass]

I predict fair and humane treatment. Anything less and Embraer orders will disappear faster than airline profits.

I agree, the world is watching and will apply political pressure if anything is awry. The ACLU will certainly have something to say about it.

Scratch that, aren't both pilots white?

They're screwed.

 

[A Squared]

The ACLU will certainly have something to say about it.

Scratch that, aren't both pilots white?

They're screwed.

Even if they were rainbow colored, this would be way outside the baliwick of the ACLU. Remember that stands for American Civil Liberties, and your civil liberties as a US citizen don't extend past the US borders.

 

[A Squared]

OK, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. I think we all are left a little uneasy at the thought of a US pilot involved in an accident in the clutches of the criminal justice system of another country, one in which the integrity of the justice system is felt to be dubious. ... however, do you think that the pilots should be exempt from the laws of the country in which they are flying? Manslaughter charges in the case of aircraft accidents are becomong increasingly common, and not just in repressive jurisdictions. It happens in the United States and other democratic countries. A personal acquaintance of mine is currently facing manslaughter charges for an airplane crash.

So, if it can be fairly shown that the Legacy Crew is substantially at fault, should they still be exempt form the laws of Brazil? Let's say that hypothetically, an honest review of the CVR shows that the Captain said to the FO: "well, we're supposed to descend to 360 here, but screw that, there's nobody out here to hit".

What then? would you still feel that they shouldn't stand trial for manslaughter? What if your family was on that 737?

This brings to mind the case of the US teenager in Singapore who was caught vandalizing automobiles a few years ago. I recall with amazement the public outcry that this poor dear should not be publicly whipped, because that's not the punishment he'd get in the US. well, yes, but he's not in the US, and that *is* the punishment you get for vandalizing cars in Singapore. A US passport is not a "get out of jail free" card

I understand the concern of not being trated justly by a questionable justice system, but sometimes I am asounded by the apparent opinion that wherever you go as a US citizen, you should only be subject to US law.

 

[handlesaregay]

Well the subject of US Citizens traveling outside the country is an interesting topic. And I think a lot of people are naive when it comes to that, (going to Belize is not like going to Florida!) However I'm more interested in the criminalization of accidents aspect. This is a big deal IMO. Are we going to start prosecuting every time there's human error or oversight that causes a crash? Things like "willfull misconduct" and "gross negligence" are in the eye of the beholder. I'm afraid if we let this genie out of the bottle family members will no longer be satisfied just suing the pants off everyone, they're now going to want to see individuals actually thrown in jail. If this is where we're heading I think I'd rather not survive the accident.