Pilots detained in Brazil

[Traderd]

http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/topstories_story_277082752.html

 

[timeoff]

WOW. It looks like they are going to face 155 counts of involuntary manslaughter if the government finds them "guilty". Does anyone know if US pilots have ever been convicted of something like this in the past when flying in a foriegn country?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061004/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_plane_crash

 

[Squanto]

Its the Civil Side.......$

Even if they win the criminal counts, the civil lawsuits from all of the families will be ungodly. Sad situation for all involved.

 

[handlesaregay]

I had a feeling this was coming. Got to make you feel all warm and fuzzy about flying internationally. IMO it's part of a broader trend of criminalizing accidents. Be careful not to run over a pedestrian while talking on your cell phone you just might wind up in prison.

 

[AngelKing]

I think what has to be determined is, if this was truly a case of radio miscommunication or if they were purposely not flying their clearance.


If they were knowingly not flying their clearance, it can hardly be called an "accident"

AK

 

[handlesaregay]

If they were knowingly not flying their clearance, it can hardly be called an "accident"

Then what do you call it?

 

[AngelKing]

Well, how about .... willfull misconduct, manslaughter, etc..? An accident is when something happens that is beyond normal control. If they were intentionally flying a different altitude that what they were cleared, what would you call it?


AK

 

[skyaddict]

Just off the top of my head (in case my memory is hazy), I recall that there was a Swissair aborted takeoff in Athens (the 70s I think), off a runway without any over-run and into a ravine, that resulted in many fatalities and long jail sentences for the flight crew until they were extradited. I think IFALPA fought long and hard on that. Plus, back in the late 90s, I believe, a KAL Airbus crashed during a go-around at Seoul where the Korean CA and Canadian FO fought over the controls. Don't recall the outcome, but the Koreans threw criminal charges at the crew. Air Traffic Controllers in some European countries have also been charged with manslaughter and imprisoned- e.g. the controller who steered a BEA Trident and another airliner into each other over Yugoslavia. (As an aside, the the Danish Eurocontrol controller who inadvertantly steered the freighter and Soviet charter full of school kids, into the midair on the Swiss/German border a few years back, was assassinated in front of his wife and kids at home by a vigilante Russian.)

There is a good Ernie Gann book, Band of Brothers, about old flying buddies coming together to fight for the American Captain of a Taiwanese 727, falsely charged and imprisoned after an ILS crash that was actually due to a faulty glideslope, which the government wanted to cover up. Loosely based on a true accident.

It does all give one the creeps when it comes to international flying.

 

[handlesaregay]

Well, how about .... willfull misconduct, manslaughter, etc..? An accident is when something happens that is beyond normal control. If they were intentionally flying a different altitude that what they were cleared, what would you call it?

I understand what you're getting at. But think about what you're advocating is that really the kind of world you want to live in? If your daughter goes out one night and while "knowingly" exceeding the speed limit flips her SUV and kills a bunch of people are you ready to send her to the big house for manslaughter? Where do you draw the line? Is every accident a potential crime?

 

[AngelKing]

I understand what you're getting at. But think about what you're advocating is that really the kind of world you want to live in? If your daughter goes out one night and while "knowingly" exceeding the speed limit flips her SUV and kills a bunch of people are you ready to send her to the big house for manslaughter? Where do you draw the line? Is every accident a potential crime?

No, I would not want her sent to the big house since she is my daughter. But if my daughter was speeding and crashed into your daughter and killed her, would you want my daughter punished? My guess is....probably.

My point is, if the flight crew was knowingly.....repeat knowingly, not flying an assigned altitude, for whatever reason, and caused a crash , it can hardly be called an accident.

AK