Pilots against JBPA (jetblue union)

[bluesideup340]

The Leverage we have with the threat of a Union at JB is much better than actually having a Union.
Imagine this, JBPA gets 49% of the votes. That would be a hell of a message to JB Executive Crew to respond with improvements to our pay and benefits.
Just think about that when you get your ballot.

 

[Lebowski]

The Leverage we have with the threat of a Union at JB is much better than actually having a Union.
Imagine this, JBPA gets 49% of the votes. That would be a hell of a message to JB Executive Crew to respond with improvements to our pay and benefits.
Just think about that when you get your ballot.

Is the "leverage" you're talking about going to prevent penstroke policy changes from occuring if JBPA is not voted in? How is that going to work?

I've been through a number of union drives and this argument always comes up by anti-union pilots. I don't really get it. Maybe someone can explain exactly how the "leverage" of a threat is better than a formalized contract between the company and its career employees.

 

[Lebowski]

The Leverage we have with the threat of a Union at JB is much better than actually having a Union.
Imagine this, JBPA gets 49% of the votes. That would be a hell of a message to JB Executive Crew to respond with improvements to our pay and benefits.
Just think about that when you get your ballot.

I almost forgot...how many times do you want to send a "hell of a message" to management? I think the PCRB report was a loud message that was essentially ignored. Why? There's no real motivation to address a non-organized group.

By the way, Blueside...no personal beef with you...I've just seen this argument over and over again. The only thing that happens after a failed union drive, regardless of how close it comes to success, is that management breathes a collective sigh of relief when it's over because they won. Then they can back to not addressing the concerns of their professional pilots.

 

[bluesideup340]

Hi Lebowski
First of all you do have a contract with the company. Sure it might not address all your personal needs and preferences. But to believe a CBA would make all the ills of our industry, and for that matter JB, disappear is an unrealistic expectation, which will be in particular true when JBPA signs the first CBA. I am sure you know the first CBA will not be much better than what we currently have. Mainly because Unions due can not and will not be collect until we have a CBA.
So JBPA will have to balance there limited resources (i.e. Money, time) very carefully which will affect there bargaining position as a function of (Strength of bargaining position = Money / Time)

On the other side of the table is the company. Looking at JetBlue’s past history the company made improvement to our contract on an annual bases. Not saying that all the decision and improvements were always spot on, but no one can argue with our success, job security, and financial strength as an Airline.

Once a union is in place the company will have to give up some of the flexibility to manage JetBlue’s business and commit to long-term somewhat rigid CBA language that will affect the organization for the next 5 years. Making prediction on industry changes, in particular in our current economic situation, is very difficult and JB’s negotiator will be very careful to enter into long-term commitments. Hence, the negotiator has little motivation to bring negotiations to a quick end. Because, by holding out as long as possible, weakens the bargaining position of the Union. Of course, that isn’t news to anyone that is why CBA negotiations take years and even longer for the first CBAs. Unless the Union, in the case of a first contract, accepts very basic terms that do not change the status quo by much.

Therefore the threat of a Union provides more leverage than a Union. A 49% vote would show we are capable to have a Union if our concerns regarding merger or health care aren’t address. In all fairness, the last contract was not great and I wasn’t impressed with it. But given the Fuel Price and the economic situation I know it was the best possible and most sensible solution. Without a doubt, JB is not perfect but neither is a Union.

Now let me be clear here, I am not against Unions per se. I do believe that company’s that have Unions, for the most part, deserved a Union because they failed to find the right balance between the needs of the Business and the requirements of their employees. But in the case of JB, improvements and progress are made and we do have an open unfiltered line of communication so why change it. JB and its Pilots neither needs nor deserves a Union yet.

Last but not least, JBPA claim to address the professional needs of all Pilots at JetBlue is unrealistic, but a great campaign gimmick. No CBA or JB contract will ever address all of our 2000 individual needs and requirements. I am just not willing to exchange the devil I know with the unknown.

 

[StarChecker]

But in the case of JB, improvements and progress are made and we do have an open unfiltered line of communication so why change it.

Unfiltered? Are you mad?

Did you miss the spin at the PCRB meetings? That was unfiltered? That rhetoric was filtered more than most campaign speeches. I could smell it over the phone.

Did you negotiate/vote on any of the latest PCRB "improvements"? because I didn't. And you know what....I never will because I don't have a CBA. You will just be taking whatever the company wants to give you until we have a CBA. They had a 64 page document plainly showing our shortcomings...and they responded in 8 pages. What could we do about it.....NOTHING.

So what do I do now if I think it sucks that I have to pay $1400/year for my prescriptions that used to cost me $300/year at my crappy regional? Same prescriptions....4.5 TIMES MORE OUT OF POCKET. WHAT DO I DO? Send a letter to the CP? Benefits? John Ross? Dave?

USELESS

I'd rather have the ability to vote on changes to my pay/benefits. No...there is no guarantee that any of it will definitely improve with a CBA and anyone who thinks so is a nitwit. But what is the alternative? What we have now doesn't work...how many more PCRB abortions will it take for you to realize that.

 

[Caveman]

Once a union is in place the company will have to give up some of the flexibility to manage JetBlue’s business and commit to long-term somewhat rigid CBA language that will affect the organization for the next 5 years. Making prediction on industry changes, in particular in our current economic situation, is very difficult and JB’s negotiator will be very careful to enter into long-term commitments. Hence, the negotiator has little motivation to bring negotiations to a quick end. Because, by holding out as long as possible, weakens the bargaining position of the Union. Of course, that isn’t news to anyone that is why CBA negotiations take years and even longer for the first CBAs. Unless the Union, in the case of a first contract, accepts very basic terms that do not change the status quo by much.

They enter into long term contracts with Airbus and the Port Authority. Does that hinder their abilitity to be flexible too? Why should a 3-5 year contract with the pilots be any different? Nobody else JetBlue deals with operates without a written binding agreement. Why should employees be any different?

 

[Draginass]

When Jetblue gets sold, you'd better have a contract with a solid successorship clause.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

You mean thanks JBPA (and the 700-1000 pilots standing by the JBPA).

Once again -- Colonel Beard, it's your brethren that have initiated this effort. Not some fringe group that doesn't care about JetBlue. Your fellow pilots. That's the JBPA.

First of all, COL Beard flew B-52s so you have the wrong guy! Additionally, 35% of the pilots showed interest in JBPA, they did not vote for it, YET. If the economy continues on its pace, I think you'll find that in the end-- JBLU pilots will not vote for JBPA, they'd rather keep their jobs and be hopeful for a more meaningful existence in the future, hopefully, as the economy and our company prospers...

 

[8vATE]

Bavarian Brainpower

I find it hard to believe that a grown man is typing this stuff.

Just another Bavarian retort to a pragmatic post here on Flight Info.

ALL Bow Down to Barvaria Chefs!

 

[8vATE]

Me either on the overmanning. I got 84 hr line in November, 93 in December.

We get it!

It's all about you.