Pilots against JBPA (jetblue union)

[727Niteflyer]

just wait till one day you get a bean counter in managment that thinks pilots are way overpaid and underworked.

He will start with pay, benefits, cancel vacation because pilots already enjoy a lot of time off.

Than he will use words like efficiency, productivity and utilization. And how training is non productive. And look for ways to get more productivity out of the labor.

He will then look at the nice hotels you stay at. Soon you will be staying in comfort inns, clarions and Laquintas.

soon you will have no benefits, no vacations, and work more for the same money. Your layovers will be garbage.

Other managment will hail him has a hero because he is saving so much money. he will enjoy bonuses at your expense.

And then you will look at your fellow aviators and say, "Sh&t we should have voted in a union".

 

[waveflyer]

Well said. It's not just about what's right, right now. It's about protection from what may come. Doesn't mean the culture has to go. And it doesn't mean you can't be flexible. But to collectively bargain, w/o a union is naive.
Goes for VA and SKYW as well.

 

[linepilot]

just wait till one day you get a bean counter in managment that thinks pilots are way overpaid and underworked.

He will start with pay, benefits, cancel vacation because pilots already enjoy a lot of time off.

Than he will use words like efficiency, productivity and utilization. And how training is non productive. And look for ways to get more productivity out of the labor.

He will then look at the nice hotels you stay at. Soon you will be staying in comfort inns, clarions and Laquintas.

soon you will have no benefits, no vacations, and work more for the same money. Your layovers will be garbage.

Other managment will hail him has a hero because he is saving so much money. he will enjoy bonuses at your expense.

And then you will look at your fellow aviators and say, "Sh&t we should have voted in a union".

Jetblue pilots don't have any benefits NOW and it will get worse with the CURRENT management.

 

[727Niteflyer]

of course jetblue pilots have benefits. Paid time off, sick time, a 401k. All of which will come under attack when the bean counter shows up. If you dont have a union he will do alot of damage. And when you are forced to get a union you will be fighting to get back items that you enjoy now. 1 bean counter can do years of damage.

 

[bluesideup340]

Craig Hoskins’ message to JB pilots on Union drive. Sure for all Radical True Union Believers this is just management propaganda. However, the issues and questions he raises are real how about some answers from JBPA instead of empty promises to solve all our problems. So fire away, here it goes:

“Obviously, the big event coming up that’s on everyone’s mind is the union election. The National Mediation Board will mail out voter instructions on January 6, and the voting period is between January 6 and February 3. I’d like to take a moment to clarify some huge misconceptions that are out there – I respect your right to choose representation, but you need to have the right information to make an informed choice, and I’m afraid there is a campaign afoot to spread wrong information.

First – IF a union is voted in, everything about your current working agreement is negotiable. There is no guarantee that the company will begin first contract negotiations from a position of status quo – and there’s no obligation to do so.

Second – Negotiating a first contract is traditionally a pretty expensive thing to do. How does JBPA propose to pay for that? Also – running committees is pretty expensive, too, and if a union is voted in, that cost is borne by the union. Today, we spend around $1 million a year to run committees, and that number was projected to go up with the permanent working committee structure. If JBPA is voted in, JBPA pays for those committees. How much in dues does JBPA have to collect to support these committees? It may not be so much of a question about dues – you’re choosing to either hire a representative or not, so you know it’s going to cost you money if you choose JBPA. I’m raising this issue because there seems to be an unsophisticated appreciation for what it takes to run a union among certain people. If your union doesn’t know what it takes, you have no idea how much it will really cost you individually.

And finally – there remains an assumption that if the union doesn’t work out, then JetBlue Pilots can simply return to non-union status. This is the one of the most significant inaccuracies. If JBPA is voted in, and at some point in the future you feel it’s not working out, you really don’t have a lot of choices. The National Mediation Board does not have a “decertification” process per se. Historically speaking, once a union is on the property, it or something like it is here to stay."

 

[PCL_128]

If you're spending $1 million to run these fake "committees," then tons of money is being flushed down the toilet. I'm sure the JBPA will be far more efficient.

As for decertification, it's just as easy as this election you're about to have. Turn in your cards again, and tell everyone not to vote. If less than 50% votes, then the union is decertified. Pretty simple.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

More lies by management spread as truth....

Recall Neeleman planted deep seated anti union seeds....

Who do you trust? Yourselves or someone else?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Craig Hoskins’ message to JB pilots on Union drive. Sure for all Radical True Union Believers this is just management propaganda. However, the issues and questions he raises are real how about some answers from JBPA instead of empty promises to solve all our problems. So fire away, here it goes:

“Obviously, the big event coming up that’s on everyone’s mind is the union election. The National Mediation Board will mail out voter instructions on January 6, and the voting period is between January 6 and February 3. I’d like to take a moment to clarify some huge misconceptions that are out there – I respect your right to choose representation, but you need to have the right information to make an informed choice, and I’m afraid there is a campaign afoot to spread wrong information.

First – IF a union is voted in, everything about your current working agreement is negotiable. There is no guarantee that the company will begin first contract negotiations from a position of status quo – and there’s no obligation to do so.

Second – Negotiating a first contract is traditionally a pretty expensive thing to do. How does JBPA propose to pay for that? Also – running committees is pretty expensive, too, and if a union is voted in, that cost is borne by the union. Today, we spend around $1 million a year to run committees, and that number was projected to go up with the permanent working committee structure. If JBPA is voted in, JBPA pays for those committees. How much in dues does JBPA have to collect to support these committees? It may not be so much of a question about dues – you’re choosing to either hire a representative or not, so you know it’s going to cost you money if you choose JBPA. I’m raising this issue because there seems to be an unsophisticated appreciation for what it takes to run a union among certain people. If your union doesn’t know what it takes, you have no idea how much it will really cost you individually.

And finally – there remains an assumption that if the union doesn’t work out, then JetBlue Pilots can simply return to non-union status. This is the one of the most significant inaccuracies. If JBPA is voted in, and at some point in the future you feel it’s not working out, you really don’t have a lot of choices. The National Mediation Board does not have a “decertification” process per se. Historically speaking, once a union is on the property, it or something like it is here to stay."

You may want to check out the CBB and see what it says about posting stuff like this on the internet.

The first point kills me -- so JB management would want to negotiate away stuff we already have? Really? So sure about that? That would kill the culture, and it would certainly kill any remaining doubt as to what the company really cares about.

But hey, you'd have the UNION to blame. Kinda like telling your kid that he MADE you hit him.

Point two: a million to run committees that do what?

I love to hear FOs tell me that Captain such-n-such is running around telling them JB is gonna furlough if a union is voted in. Once again, really? One day, no union, no furloughs. Next day, union, furloughs. Is that how it works?

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

December 30, 2008 International airlines saw a huge 13.5 percent fall in cargo traffic in November and a drop of 4.6 percent in passengers as business shrank across the industry, the carriers' grouping IATA said on Tuesday.
The figures, reflecting what IATA has dubbed a "chronic crisis" with revenues tumbling and hundreds of thousands of jobs at risk, marked the sharpest declines since the months after the September 2001 attacks in the United States.
"The 13.5 percent drop in international cargo is shocking," said Giovanni Bisignani, Director General of the body, the International Air Transport Association which represents airlines operating 93 percent of cross-border flights.
"As air cargo handles 35 percent of the value of goods traded internationally, it clearly shows the rapid fall in global trade and the broadening impact of the economic slowdown," he declared.
"The industry is now shrinking by all measures."
Although airlines had cut flight numbers by 1 percent in November in anticipation of falling demand, the actual drop in passengers had left planes operating with nearly 27 percent of seats empty against only 24 percent in November 2007.
"We can expect deep losses in the fourth quarter," said Bisignani, who earlier this month forecast that total balance sheet deficits in 2008 of its some 230 members across the globe would reach USD$5 billion by the end of the year.
The November figures, issued from IATA's Geneva headquarters, showed airlines in the Asia-Pacific area -- which accounts for nearly 45 percent of global air freight -- seeing the largest regional cargo traffic drop, a whopping 16.9 percent.
Asia-Pacific, which includes the previously rapidly expanding China market, saw a decline of 9.7 percent in passenger numbers, also more than any other of the six world regions that IATA reports on separately.
Carriers in North America -- which includes the United States, Canada and Mexico -- saw a decline of 14.4 percent in cargo and 4.8 percent in passengers, the last, IATA said, reflecting the near-collapse of the investment banking sector.
Europe recorded an 11 percent slump in cargo and 3.4 percent in passengers as the major markets for its airlines -- intra-continental, the North Atlantic and Asia -- all sunk deeper into economic woes.
At the start of December, IATA forecast that industry losses in 2009 were likely to total some USD$2.5 billion, despite a boost from falling oil prices after the spike in the middle of 2008 which had hit carriers hard.
Commenting on the Tuesday figures, Bisignani did not suggest any revision of that prediction.
But he said the overall economic gloom reflected by the November statistics would carry over into the coming year. "The industry is back in intensive care. Improved efficiency everywhere will be the theme for 2009," he declared.

(Reuters)

And we'll be negotiating our first concessionary contract under these circumstances...

 

[Bavarian Chef]

December 30, 2008 International airlines saw a huge 13.5 percent fall in cargo traffic in November and a drop of 4.6 percent in passengers as business shrank across the industry, the carriers' grouping IATA said on Tuesday.
The figures, reflecting what IATA has dubbed a "chronic crisis" with revenues tumbling and hundreds of thousands of jobs at risk, marked the sharpest declines since the months after the September 2001 attacks in the United States.
"The 13.5 percent drop in international cargo is shocking," said Giovanni Bisignani, Director General of the body, the International Air Transport Association which represents airlines operating 93 percent of cross-border flights.
"As air cargo handles 35 percent of the value of goods traded internationally, it clearly shows the rapid fall in global trade and the broadening impact of the economic slowdown," he declared.
"The industry is now shrinking by all measures."
Although airlines had cut flight numbers by 1 percent in November in anticipation of falling demand, the actual drop in passengers had left planes operating with nearly 27 percent of seats empty against only 24 percent in November 2007.
"We can expect deep losses in the fourth quarter," said Bisignani, who earlier this month forecast that total balance sheet deficits in 2008 of its some 230 members across the globe would reach USD$5 billion by the end of the year.
The November figures, issued from IATA's Geneva headquarters, showed airlines in the Asia-Pacific area -- which accounts for nearly 45 percent of global air freight -- seeing the largest regional cargo traffic drop, a whopping 16.9 percent.
Asia-Pacific, which includes the previously rapidly expanding China market, saw a decline of 9.7 percent in passenger numbers, also more than any other of the six world regions that IATA reports on separately.
Carriers in North America -- which includes the United States, Canada and Mexico -- saw a decline of 14.4 percent in cargo and 4.8 percent in passengers, the last, IATA said, reflecting the near-collapse of the investment banking sector.
Europe recorded an 11 percent slump in cargo and 3.4 percent in passengers as the major markets for its airlines -- intra-continental, the North Atlantic and Asia -- all sunk deeper into economic woes.
At the start of December, IATA forecast that industry losses in 2009 were likely to total some USD$2.5 billion, despite a boost from falling oil prices after the spike in the middle of 2008 which had hit carriers hard.
Commenting on the Tuesday figures, Bisignani did not suggest any revision of that prediction.
But he said the overall economic gloom reflected by the November statistics would carry over into the coming year. "The industry is back in intensive care. Improved efficiency everywhere will be the theme for 2009," he declared.

(Reuters)

And we'll be negotiating our first concessionary contract under these circumstances...

You are of course, assuming we didn't make money in 2008 ...

And disregarding the fact that many think we are already under a concessionary contract.