Over AGE 60 PILOTS TO FLY IN UNITED STATES

[TAZ MAN]

Good luck explaining why the onus is on him.

Give a whirl. I'm open minded.

 

[TAZ MAN]

That's what YOU must prove.

I don't have to....I like the rule!

My point is prove that it will affect safety.

After reviewing the thread with your posts, which wasn't easy, I see your point which is unique. You have said if it ain't broke don't fix it. There lies the fault in your premise. Your implying that flying past 60 may break an already safe system. There is no reliable quantifying data to say one way or the other. As well as there is no data for ages 55-60 or 20-25 or 40-45.

So therefore, why can you say with an ounce of certainity that this rule change could affect safety. How many pilots have retired at you company and you said to yourself that there is no way this age rule applied to them. To me...most. There are some that I believe should retire at 60. but I certainly felt that way when they were 55. Some there is not too early.

Even mentioning the word safety in this debate is worthless. If we are honest with ourselves we will use the word greed. Because thats whats its all about. Anyone thinking otherwise is fooling themselves.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Why do I need to prove the rule? It was a political move in the late fifties. Totally not related to safety.

I don't like or dislike the rule. At this point it makes no difference to me.

You like the rule because it benefits you.

And thats OK. You just keep trying to justify that the question of safety may be the only way to keep from changing the rule to benefit you.

(sigh)

For a while there I thought you understood.

My bad.

 

[TAZ MAN]

(sigh)

For a while there I thought you understood.

My bad.

Changed my post while you wrote this...sorry.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Whole Can Of Scheduling Worms Being Opened UP!

ICAO is going to 65 for the captain with an under 60 FO. IF (and that's a huge IF!) that happens in the US then my question is what happens when the 61-64 yr old FO holds (by seniority) a line that a 64 yr old captain is awarded? Does the captain's seniority "push" (i.e., outweigh, is superior to?) the FO's? What if the younger FO is senior to the older Captain? This happens at my airline with surprising frequency. We have no mandatory upgrade requirement and a significant number bypass upgrade for many years due to quality of life/bidding considerations. I'm sure the old geezers have thought about all these scenarios and have ready answers. I can't imagine anyone proposing a change to a nearly 50-yr old regulation without having thought through the many challenges that are sure to be illuminated.

BBB

 

[vetrider]

ICAO is going to 65 for the captain with an under 60 FO. IF (and that's a huge IF!) that happens in the US then my question is what happens when the 61-64 yr old FO holds (by seniority) a line that a 64 yr old captain is awarded? Does the captain's seniority "push" (i.e., outweigh, is superior to?) the FO's? What if the younger FO is senior to the older Captain? This happens at my airline with surprising frequency. We have no mandatory upgrade requirement and a significant number bypass upgrade for many years due to quality of life/bidding considerations. I'm sure the old geezers have thought about all these scenarios and have ready answers. I can't imagine anyone proposing a change to a nearly 50-yr old regulation without having thought through the many challenges that are sure to be illuminated.

BBB

So far I doubt many have thought it through to that degree. I might be somewhat misinformed, but my impression is the only ones who want this changed are certain members of congress and the apaad folks. I can't see either of these caring one bit about what you are talking about, I think they would like to ram it through and think about the other stuff later, if they care about it at all.

 

[dsee8driver]

ICAO is going to 65 for the captain with an under 60 FO. IF (and that's a huge IF!) that happens in the US then my question is what happens when the 61-64 yr old FO holds (by seniority) a line that a 64 yr old captain is awarded? Does the captain's seniority "push" (i.e., outweigh, is superior to?) the FO's? What if the younger FO is senior to the older Captain? This happens at my airline with surprising frequency. We have no mandatory upgrade requirement and a significant number bypass upgrade for many years due to quality of life/bidding considerations. I'm sure the old geezers have thought about all these scenarios and have ready answers. I can't imagine anyone proposing a change to a nearly 50-yr old regulation without having thought through the many challenges that are sure to be illuminated.

BBB

Dam...I thought I was reading my post a few pages back.

BBB, another thing to think about is the 3 person crew. Now the FE can fly until he dies, and believe me we have a few. Will the Feds come up with another twist to the law and possibly, again, possibly, come up with a mandatory age for the FE also when one crewmember is 60+. I think the can of worms being openned up can get ugly.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Dam...I thought I was reading my post a few pages back.

BBB, another thing to think about is the 3 person crew. Now the FE can fly until he dies, and believe me we have a few. Will the Feds come up with another twist to the law and possibly, again, possibly, come up with a mandatory age for the FE also when one crewmember is 60+. I think the can of worms being openned up can get ugly.

dsee, trust me I feel your pain ... I jumped on the last flight of one of our really old geezer FE's ... er, I mean soon-to-be-captains if age 60 is overthrown) ... we had to help him down the stairs, carry his bags down ... he's now in a nursing home (less than a year later!) Let's add in a 74 yr-old FE (that's how old he was) a 64.9 yr old Captain and a 59 yr old FO ... holey moley that's a lot of artery clogging fat in one cockpit!

Great safety emphasis you old geezers! And don't bother telling me how you old farts don't want to bid to be together with your denture-dependant pals ... there's more Preparation-H, Efferdent, and Viagra in that cockpit than at many professional football games!

BBB

 

[matt1.1]

Be careful what you wish for it might just happen

I hope the greedy over 60 crowd screws themselves royally if a change occurs. I hope
1) the current over 60 FE+ get the boot
2)the over 60 captains are blocked from bidding until the rest of the lines are awarded
3)the IRS keeps the AMT and takes 50% of your gross and you get less than just hanging up your hat because the over 60 crowd overlooks the tax consequences in your desire to hang onto nothing
4)new medical standards are issued that knock you out of even flying business jets or GA
5)you cause the bankrupt carriers to liquidate because of the higher payroll or continue to remain uncompetitive against the LCC's and you lose your retirement payments because you have pushed for pension reform and kept the company from sending it to the governments PBGC and were unable to take your lump sum because of the deficit in your current system
5)and whatever else could cause your greed to get more of your money and keep you off the golf courses and sweating away in the hot ######## wishing you would die to get a break.

Greed is what is driving the politics of this dicussion. Safety is not even a consideration.

I just hope those rocking the boat wanting the change get what you deserve.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

So far I doubt many have thought it through to that degree.

I'm simply shocked you would assert such an irresponsible position vetrider ... shocked I tell you! You mean to tell me all these old farts who have steadfastly maintained they are at the tops of their game have not thought out the most basic of challenges to their absurd proposition?

BBB

 

[FoxHunter]

I'm simply shocked you would assert such an irresponsible position vetrider ... shocked I tell you! You mean to tell me all these old farts who have steadfastly maintained they are at the tops of their game have not thought out the most basic of challenges to their absurd proposition?

BBB

hmmm? Wonder why when one airline has to 3 engine ferry their broken 747-400 it is done by guys 60+.

 

[vetrider]

I'm simply shocked you would assert such an irresponsible position vetrider ... shocked I tell you! You mean to tell me all these old farts who have steadfastly maintained they are at the tops of their game have not thought out the most basic of challenges to their absurd proposition?

BBB

I'll go even one further, if they have thought about it I doubt they give a rats a..

 

[Big Beer Belly]

hmmm? Wonder why when one airline has to 3 engine ferry their broken 747-400 it is done by guys 60+.

My guess ... since it's not war time and no one is shooting at us ... no one else is STUPID enough to do it?

BBB

 

[Big Beer Belly]

I'll go even one further, if they have thought about it I doubt they give a rats a..

DING, DING, DING ... give that man a prize!

BBB

 

[3BCat]

ICAO is going to 65 for the captain with an under 60 FO. IF (and that's a huge IF!) that happens in the US then my question is what happens when the 61-64 yr old FO holds (by seniority) a line that a 64 yr old captain is awarded? Does the captain's seniority "push" (i.e., outweigh, is superior to?) the FO's? What if the younger FO is senior to the older Captain? This happens at my airline with surprising frequency. We have no mandatory upgrade requirement and a significant number bypass upgrade for many years due to quality of life/bidding considerations. I'm sure the old geezers have thought about all these scenarios and have ready answers. I can't imagine anyone proposing a change to a nearly 50-yr old regulation without having thought through the many challenges that are sure to be illuminated.

BBB

They are going to mandatory retirement for F/O's who reach 60 to avoid the conflict with older Captains. I hope I upgrade soon.